Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

[timothyu]

But I would suggest you join a bible class, which is led by an ordained Minister.

That is independent of the rules and doctrines of their denomination? Focusing only on the Gospel of the Kingdom? Won't find one.

 

[Andrewn]

Who do you think are those who are now dead?

I quoted from the CSB. The word “now” is not present in the Greek and was added by the CSB translators to align with their theological beliefs. You can also find it in some other translations of the same ilk, like the NIV and NLT.

"Those who are dead" are clearly those who were dead when Christ went to preach the Gospel in the Spirit Prison.

 

[Andrewn]

I believe at the beginning.

I think so, too. You and I share many views, even though our Christian backgrounds might be quite different.

 

[JulieB67]

I think so, too. You and I share many views, even though our Christian backgrounds might be quite different.

I think we do.

What are your beliefs on verse 5? We know Christ states blessed are those that take part in the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."


Revelation 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

You most likely already know that these are two different Greek words although similar

The word for lived in verse 4 is zao which is to live, quick

The word for lived in verse 5 is anazao which is to recover life, live again, revive.

I've talked to people that believe these people are actually dead and I've seen teachings where these people are spiritually dead and are part of the millennium.

 

[Jipsah]

Talk about filling in the blanks, do you really think that God has to justify everything He does to the likes of yourself.

Or the likes of you. You've no guarantee that you aren't one of the Evil Robots, now do you?

You come across like a control freak

Really? How interesting! How long have you been into amateur psychology?

, who demands detailed explanation of every single thing God does.

Nah, I just sit back and marvel at the sort of rubbish that some folks believe that God does or doesn't do based on God-only-knows what. And part of the marvel is how that can blow and posture and pontificate s though they'd been given their, she we say, dubious, notions of what God will or won't do via Divine revelation of some sort.

• Isaiah 40:13-14 These verses highlight that God has no need for counsel from humanity

How novel! I'd have sworn that He hangs on your every word. <Laugh>

• • "Who has directed the Spirit of the LORD, Or as His counselor has taught Him?"

The actually question isn't whether God should accept my counsel, but whether anyone at all should accept yours. I read the Gospels, and I read your beliefs, and I'm dogged if I see very much overlap there. Why did our Lord have to die if He had already who would roast and who wouldn't before He created Adam.

Could He have done that? Of course! Did He actually do that? If so, why? Why God through all the trouble of ctrting the illusion that there was hope for at least some of humanity, when in fact there was none? And why did our Lord say so much stuff that, if your pernicious beliefs are true, were simply false?

Nah, the trick is that if your rubbish was actually true, then the gospel is simply a practical joke played to see how many will fall for it.

• • "With whom did He take counsel

Not with you, matey; on that we may rely.

 

[Dan1988]

Can you please show me where Jipsah said anything in the post you were quoting from him that sounded anything like he shuns God's order or design? Or are you again just making such a wild accusation because he disagrees with you not on who Jesus Christ is, that He is our Savior and died on the cross for our sins and raised from the dead, but disagrees with you on the nature of death and/or hell? You know, like you've already done multiple times with me, him, Julie, and probably numerous others outside of this thread?

Yeah, noticed how you quoted Scripture there, and it used the word death - NOT "eternal torment", "eternal conscious suffering", "spiritual death", etc.

Jipsah would never reveal what he actually believes. So he didn't say what I said in the same words, but it is to the same effect.
Who are you referring to, when you say "our Saviour died on the cross for our sins"????. Jesus never said He died for those who He casts into hell, that would be ridiculous, as it would make the Lord Jesus a liar. If He died to save someone, then He turns around and casts them into hell, it would mean that He is a evil liar.

Why haven't you or your friend ever revealed what you believe Gods Word is referring to when it speaks about death. according to your private, unbiblical opinion, death means "annihilation" or "cessation of existence", but none of these silly opinions are supported by any scripture. They are pure fantasy, and false doctrines or "demonic doctrines"

 

[Dan1988]

Yeah, that'll teach him. I'm indoctrinated so let's just indoctrinate someone else. Just because someone is an "ordained" minister doesn't mean they have the truth. You're still young and maybe haven't realized that yet. Heck, even Jim Bakker admits he didn't even read the bible in it's entirety for the first time until he was in prison. Some of these bible colleges are just the blind leading the blind. Not all but again, we have to be careful. Even in the Bible, the people read the scriptures to see if what they were being taught was true. It's our own responsibility to do so.

Hopefully, you'll realize that one day.

There are a few big problem with your theory here. 1. You reject Gods order, by rejecting the Shepherd who God appointed and ordained to lead dumb sheep like myself. god ordains them and you reject Gods order at your own peril.

2. By rejecting them, you're claiming that they don't know the truth but you do. My Shepherd is a Professor of theology, he has reached the highest level of education. Can you even seen how rebellious and arrogant and ignorant it is to reject highly qualified teachers, and usurp that authority for yourself, while you have no qualifications at all and you've obviously never had any formal training.

There's nothing more dangerous, than self delusion. It makes you an easy target for the enemy.

 

[Dan1988]

You said this "Now for a dose of the bitter medicine, also known as the awful truth." in post #648.

There is no "bitter medicine" or "awful truth" in the gospel...it is Good News..."The gospel is the “good news” because it contains the exceedingly wonderful message of God’s redemption of sinful humanity through the death and resurrection of His Son, Jesus Christ. The gospel is the heart, the central core of Christian preaching. The English noun gospel comes from the Anglo-Saxon term godspell, meaning “glad tidings.” It is translated from the Greek evangelion, which means “good message.” Originally, the word was related to news of military triumph. But when the New Testament was recorded, its writers assigned the term gospel to the “good news” of salvation in Jesus Christ."

The blue is a link!

No, that's not true because Gods Word proves that the gospel is awful because it has the stench of death. It's like approaching an unbeliever and telling them that a stinking corpse smells good.
You need to deal with the truth of the gospel.

2 Cor 2:15 To the one we are the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life.

There you have it in black and white.

 

[Dan1988]

Please share with all of us where your understanding of "Biblically correct" comes from.



Good, because the Lord Jesus is the only person who should ever do that, He is God.


"The “fear” that perfect loves casts out is the fear of God’s judgment. We know that Judgment Day is coming, but those who are in Christ know the love of God, which drives away fear of condemnation. The dismissal of the fear of judgment is one of the main functions of God’s love. The person without Christ is under judgment and has plenty to fear (John 3:18), but, once a person is in Christ, the fear of judgment is gone. He is reconciled to God, and “there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”" (Romans 8:1).

"In summary, the word perfect in 1 John 4:18 means “complete” or “mature,” and the love that is referred to is God’s selfless agape love. The fear that this perfect love drives out is the fear of punishment. We have God’s promise that believers in Jesus Christ will not be judged with the world: “God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thessalonians 5:9; cf. 1 Corinthians 11:32). We can say with the psalmist, “In God I trust and am not afraid” (Psalm 56:11)."

What is the meaning of “perfect love casts out fear” (1 John 4:18)? | GotQuestions.org


Do you believe that you will know the truth when you hear it?


How do you know this?


Yes it does. 10 Key Bible Verses on Wisdom and Discernment

My understanding of Gods Word, comes from God, just as everything else does.

I don't know why you failed to accept the fact that "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom". You tried outsource your response, by referring me to an unrelated bunch of verses which say nothing about hew fear of God.

I already know the truth, so I'm not waiting to hear about it.

Only Gods elect, (born again believers) know the difference between the true gospel and a false version of the gospel. This doesn't mean that I'm smarter than those who are being deceived by the wolves in sheep's clothing. It just means that I am le by the Holy Spirit, and He will not allow me to fall victim to the doctrine of demons.

Gods Word confirms that it's impossible to, deceive one of His elect.

 

[Dan1988]

That is independent of the rules and doctrines of their denomination? Focusing only on the Gospel of the Kingdom? Won't find one.

There is only One true Church and only one true gospel. The one true Church is not governed by any "denomination" or external authority. Our only authority is the Lord and His Word.

The Lord Jesus is the Head of the Church, and all of Gods elect from every age are members of His body. If you asked God to lead you to a true Church, He will. But it might not be what you're expecting and you may not like hearing the truth of the gospel.

 

[RamiC]

I already know the truth, so I'm not waiting to hear about it.

Only Gods elect, (born again believers) know the difference between the true gospel and a false version of the gospel. This doesn't mean that I'm smarter than those who are being deceived by the wolves in sheep's clothing. It just means that I am le by the Holy Spirit, and He will not allow me to fall victim to the doctrine of demons.

Gods Word confirms that it's impossible to, deceive one of His elect.

This is exactly what you are suspicious of in post #684. They, just like you announce here, believe that they are lead by God and therefore immune to deceit.

CF Rules state "Stating or implying that another Christian member, or group of members, are not Christian is not allowed." Terms and rules

 

[Dan1988]

Or the likes of you. You've no guarantee that you aren't one of the Evil Robots, now do you?

Really? How interesting! How long have you been into amateur psychology?

Nah, I just sit back and marvel at the sort of rubbish that some folks believe that God does or doesn't do based on God-only-knows what. And part of the marvel is how that can blow and posture and pontificate s though they'd been given their, she we say, dubious, notions of what God will or won't do via Divine revelation of some sort.

How novel! I'd have sworn that He hangs on your every word. <Laugh>

The actually question isn't whether God should accept my counsel, but whether anyone at all should accept yours. I read the Gospels, and I read your beliefs, and I'm dogged if I see very much overlap there. Why did our Lord have to die if He had already who would roast and who wouldn't before He created Adam.

Could He have done that? Of course! Did He actually do that? If so, why? Why God through all the trouble of ctrting the illusion that there was hope for at least some of humanity, when in fact there was none? And why did our Lord say so much stuff that, if your pernicious beliefs are true, were simply false?

Nah, the trick is that if your rubbish was actually true, then the gospel is simply a practical joke played to see how many will fall for it.

Not with you, matey; on that we may rely.

The only way I could be one of the "Evil Robots", would be if God was a liar. But we know that it's not possible for God to tell a lie. He simply can't do it, so it absolutely impossible.

Here are just a few proof text confirming that I am already saved and nothing can change that fact. I'm a born again believer so all of the following verses are describing me.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life".

John 5:24
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life".

John 10:28
"And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of My hand".

1 John 5:12
"He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life".

1 John 5:13
"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God".

As you can see, there are no "Evil Robots" mentioned so you'll have to go and do some more homework.

Psychology is quackery, it has nothing to offer Gods elect. It's based on human wisdom and philosophy, and both have nothing but false hope to offer their victims.

God had no other option, but to send His only Son to suffer and die for the salvation of His elect. (Which is a small number, referred to as the remnant). It was impossible to forgive His elect, without having His Son stripped naked, then tortured to the point where He was unrecognisable. His back had flesh hanging of it from being whipped, they ripped His beard of so his face had flesh hanging off it and He was spat on by countless people.

Don't you think that God would have spared His Son all of that suffering and indignity, if there was an easier way. The only reason it doesn't make sense to you is because you're putting yourself (a totally depraved) sinner in Gods place (a Perfect and thrice Holy God).
You are judging God with your fallen mind, so it's no wonder you're theology is so messed up.

 

[Dan1988]

This is exactly what you are suspicious of in post #684. They, just like you announce here, believe that they are lead by God and therefore immune to deceit.

CF Rules state "Stating or implying that another Christian member, or group of members, are not Christian is not allowed." Terms and rules

I don't know who the true Christians are, only the born again believer and God know. So I would never conclude that someone is not a Christian. But I can point out erroneous and unbiblical interpretations of scripture.

I'm not sure if you've ever heard of the expression "iron sharpens iron", this is where Christians encourage each other by sharing the truth of the gospel.

 

[JulieB67]

There are a few big problem with your theory here. 1. You reject Gods order, by rejecting the Shepherd who God appointed and ordained to lead dumb sheep like myself. god ordains them and you reject Gods order at your own peril.

Well, this would certainly explain why you can't answer simple questions about your beliefs on certain verses and how ours are taken out of context. Someone that has the truth as you claim would have easily been able to do so. But you can't.

Why haven't you or your friend ever revealed what you believe Gods Word is referring to when it speaks about death. according to your private, unbiblical opinion, death means "annihilation" or "cessation of existence", but none of these silly opinions are supported by any scripture.

Are you joking? We have posted scripture over and over and you continually ignore sound scripture. You've never once addressed any scripture I've posted. I'm a scripture person first and foremost. You are not. You mainly pass judgement and resort to insults.

Can you even seen how rebellious and arrogant and ignorant it is to reject highly qualified teachers, and usurp that authority for yourself, while you have no qualifications at all and you've obviously never had any formal training.

You do realize we are supposed to test them? See if what they are stating can be supported? It's biblical to do so. The Bereans searched the scriptures daily. Were they being arrogant as well? Of course not. And we are told to test all things. We aren't told we need a degree first.

And it's good to question them as well. I grew up in a Baptist church that taught false doctrine. If you would rather follow man than God, so be it. I choose to put my faith in Him and his Word. Am I still learning? Of course as we all should be because the Word can open up at different times. And it's God that gives the increase.

Just because someone has a degree, does not mean they have the truth.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life".

John 5:24
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life".

John 10:28
"And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of My hand".

1 John 5:12
"He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life".

1 John 5:13
"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God".

Funny how you post all of these verses and yet are still can't see the truth within them about life and death. There's a distinction. One has everlasting life and the other does not. You have to add to these verses to produce a doctrine. And we know the punishment for that. So again, we have to be very careful.

But in posting these verses you are in fact making our argument for us, not against us concerning life and death.

 

[Andrewn]

What are your beliefs on verse 5? We know Christ states blessed are those that take part in the first resurrection.

This subject is very complicated but here is what I think today:

1) The apostle Paul defined resurrection in the following way:

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural (psychical) body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural (psychical) body and there is also a spiritual body.

So, the first resurrection might relate to gaining a spiritual body. This represents human perfection and eternal life.

2) When does the first resurrection happen?

Rom 6:4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will also be part of his resurrection;

Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

So, the first resurrection may relate to life in Christ and people’s communion with God. In this way, we grow into maturity until we fully receive a spiritual body at physical death for eternal life. Rev 20:4 presents a picture of the saints already reigning with Christ.

3) The rest of the dead didn’t recover life, live again, revive until the thousand years were finished:

The unsaved are resurrected during the Millennium, but only achieve full human perfection and everlasting life after passing a final test at the end of the Millennium, as described in verses 7 and 8.

I've talked to people that believe these people are actually dead and I've seen teachings where these people are spiritually dead and are part of the millennium.

I talked too much. It’s now your turn to share your thoughts. I’m really interested to hear what you think.

 

[JulieB67]

This subject is very complicated

It really is. I admit this is one subject that I find myself still wanting to further study and pray about. But I think that those who believe and continue to abide in Christ until the end will take part in that first resurrection.

The unsaved are resurrected during the Millennium, but only achieve full human perfection and everlasting life after passing a final test at the end of the Millennium,

That's kind of where I'm at as well.

 

[Andrewn]

I admit this is one subject that I find myself still wanting to further study and pray about. But I think that those who believe and continue to abide in Christ until the end will take part in that first resurrection.

One word I glossed over in Rev 20:4 is the word soul / psyche / nefesh. "I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus . . . ." Does this mean a resurrection of the natural (psychical) body has happened at this point for both the saints and the unsaved? This seems to be implied. But the text is far from clear.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[JulieB67]

Does this mean a resurrection of the natural (psychical) body has happened at this point for both the saints and the unsaved? T

I believe so. I go back to this-

I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

But I still believe as you stated, they won't have achieved eternal life until after the end if they make it. That's why everyone is blessed to have taken part in the first because the second death has no power over them any longer as it does the rest.