Who then can be saved?

[Dan1988]

No Paul was including both Timothy and himself in that statement. If WE deny Him, He will deny US. The only reason you can’t accept what is ACTUALLY WRITTEN IN SCRIPTURE is because it contradicts your theology. And the worst thing about it is that you don’t care what the scriptures say.

Did any of those whom Paul wrote to "Deny Him", ???? answer NO. Did Paul write the letter as a warning or was it an exhortation???? if you don't know, you need to join a bible class for beginners.

 

[Dan1988]

Take a look at Institutes, Book 3, chap 21 to see what Calvin taught. For that matter, the doctrine of Limited Atonement necessitates that some are preordained for heaven and the rest for hell. And, BTW, no one but God knows with perfect certainty whose names are written in the Book of Life and whose are not. People can deceive themselves all day long on these matters.

I have never read any of John Calvin's books, I'm too busy studying theology. In any case I'm sure Calvin, never claimed that God created some specific purpose of tormenting them in hell.

The Bible doctrine of limited atonement, obviously means that those God did not elect for salvation will end up in hell. Nobody can get into Gods mind, to see how and why He does what He does. It's none of our business, God has every right to chose whom He saves and whom He leaves in their condemned sate.

 

[Dan1988]

So, are you just avoiding the question here, or what? Does hell involve the absence of God’s presence, as maintained in 2 Thess, or not?

I'm not sure which verse or chapter of 2 Tess you're referring to, but I already know that it doesn't mean what your trying to suggest it's saying. I assume it saying those in hell will not enjoy communion with God, because He doesn't show them any mercy or love. All they see from God is His wrath and vengeance and torment.
So I think you mean they are separated from God love

 

[fhansen]

I'm not sure which verse or chapter of 2 Tess you're referring to, but I already know that it doesn't mean what your trying to suggest it's saying.

I see. and that's called presumption-and is the reason you don't know the faith well. You don't know much about the historical foundations and theological legacy of the church, and apparently didn't bother to read the quote from Thess already given in post #552. How can you claim to know anything, or credibly and honestly respond to anyone's posts, if you don't even read them?

 

[fhansen]

I have never read any of John Calvin's books, I'm too busy studying theology. In any case I'm sure Calvin, never claimed that God created some specific purpose of tormenting them in hell.

Um...Institutes of the Christian Religion is theology. What theology do you study-Jack Chick? Anyway, it appears you're again sure of what you don't know.

 

[Dan1988]

I see. and that's called presumption-and is the reason you don't know the faith well. You don't know much about the historical foundations and theological legacy of the church, and apparently didn't bother to read the quote from Thess already given in post #552. How can you claim to know anything, or credibly and honestly respond to anyone's posts, if you don't even read them?

2 Thess is speaking about people like you, who do not obey the gospel of the Lord Jesus. all you have done so far is reject the gospel and make false accusations.
All I have done is proclaim thew gospel and you respond with slander. You have never identified a single error in my theology, so you just resort to making false accusations.

If you had something to offer, you would correct me, but it's obvious you have nothing to offer.

 

[Dan1988]

Um...Institutes of the Christian Religion is theology. What theology do you study-Jack Chick? Anyway, it appears you're again sure of what you don't know.

Wow, you don't even know what theology means. And you believe there are many gods, so we are worlds apart. You can have your religion all to yourself, it is an abomination to me.

 

[fhansen]

2 Thess is speaking about people like you, who do not obey the gospel of the Lord Jesus. all you have done so far is reject the gospel and make false accusations.
All I have done is proclaim thew gospel and you respond with slander. You have never identified a single error in my theology, so you just resort to making false accusations.

If you had something to offer, you would correct me, but it's obvious you have nothing to offer.

Wow, you don't even know what theology means. And you believe there are many gods, so we are worlds apart. You can have your religion all to yourself, it is an abomination to me.

It's almost amusing. You don't even attempt to perform the due diglence required in order to find out the truth for yourself, and then still endeavor to take the moral high ground like some kind of priggish Pharisee, while accusing me of your own fault.

Again, Insitutes is theology, systematic theology, and 2 Thess 1:8-10 specifically states, over and against your position, that those in hell will be "shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed."

Oh well, this discussion has descended into one of those rare moments when I'll express my distaste with the ignore button.