No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

[Mercy Shown]

The Drawing is the commencement of Spiritual Salvation Titus 3:5

Many believers rightly say that those who are truly born of God are “kept” by Him (John 10:28; 1 Peter 1:5; Jude 24). Yet God’s keeping does not override human will or coerce love. Scripture consistently shows that God draws (John 6:44), convicts (John 16:8), and calls (Revelation 3:20), but He does not force obedience. We are repeatedly exhorted to respond: “Choose you this day whom you will serve” (Joshua 24:15), “Choose life” (Deuteronomy 30:19), and “Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely” (Revelation 22:17). True receiving of God precedes transformation: “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name” (John 1:12). Grace empowers our willing response (Philippians 2:13), but it does not eliminate choice. Those who walk with God must continue in faith (Hebrews 3:14; Galatians 5:4), yet those who persevere do so because God faithfully sustains them (Jude 24), not because He overrides their will. Salvation is relational, not coercive; God invites, we respond, and together He transforms our hearts while leaving our love genuinely free.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Kinda strange and bizarre reasoning. In the case of the thief, how could baptism be required if it wasn't established by Christ yet?

I am out of this conversation...

If it wasn't established yet, what was Christ doing getting baptized by John and what was John doing Baptizing people?

 

[A New Dawn]

Kinda strange and bizarre reasoning. In the case of the thief, how could baptism be required if it wasn't established by Christ yet?

I am out of this conversation...

If you are going the route that something is required for salvation, then it is required for all. You can’t look at the most salient example in the Bible and say, Well, except for this instance. God doesn’t change.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

something is required for salvation, then it is required for all.

Chapter and verse? Or is this creative human reasoning.

Trusting in Christ's death and resurrection is required by all for eternal life. Does this mean all persons who died before Christ's death and resurrection are thrown in the lake of fire?

 

[A New Dawn]

Chapter and verse? Or is this creative human reasoning.

Trusting in Christ's death and resurrection is required by all for eternal life. Does this mean all persons who died before Christ's death and resurrection are thrown in the lake of fire?

God made it clear, before and after Christ, that salvation required faith in Christ. In the OT it was faith in looking forward to the promised messiah, in the NT and today, it is faith in the resurrected Lord. That is what the wall of faith in Hebrews 11 is all about.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

God made it clear, before and after Christ, that salvation required faith in Christ. In the OT it was faith in looking forward to the promised messiah, in the NT and today, it is faith in the resurrected Lord. That is what the wall of faith in Hebrews 11 is all about.

The OT messiah didn't necessarily mean faith in specifically Christ's death and resurrection. Jesus predicted three times to his disciples his death and resurrection and yet they didn't believe.

So the question is asked again: Trusting in Christ's death and resurrection is required by all for eternal life. Does this mean all persons who died before Christ's death and resurrection are thrown in the lake of fire?

 

[Brightfame52]

Many believers rightly say that those who are truly born of God are “kept” by Him (John 10:28; 1 Peter 1:5; Jude 24). Yet God’s keeping does not override human will or coerce love. Scripture consistently shows that God draws (John 6:44), convicts (John 16:8), and calls (Revelation 3:20), but He does not force obedience. We are repeatedly exhorted to respond: “Choose you this day whom you will serve” (Joshua 24:15), “Choose life” (Deuteronomy 30:19), and “Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely” (Revelation 22:17). True receiving of God precedes transformation: “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name” (John 1:12). Grace empowers our willing response (Philippians 2:13), but it does not eliminate choice. Those who walk with God must continue in faith (Hebrews 3:14; Galatians 5:4), yet those who persevere do so because God faithfully sustains them (Jude 24), not because He overrides their will. Salvation is relational, not coercive; God invites, we respond, and together He transforms our hearts while leaving our love genuinely free.

The Drawing is the commencement of Spiritual Salvation Titus 3:5

 

[A New Dawn]

The OT messiah didn't necessarily mean faith in specifically Christ's death and resurrection. Jesus predicted three times to his disciples his death and resurrection and yet they didn't believe.

So the question is asked again: Trusting in Christ's death and resurrection is required by all for eternal life. Does this mean all persons who died before Christ's death and resurrection are thrown in the lake of fire?

Can you give a scriptural reference that says we must believe in Jesus’ death and resurrection in order to be saved? We are saved by faith through grace that He is the Son of God who has come to save us from our sins (which he accomplishes by His death and resurrection) but it isn’t the process that saves us, it is Christ.

Lots of people are saved without having any theological knowledge, because they put their faith in Christ.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Can you give a scriptural reference that says we must believe in Jesus’ death and resurrection in order to be saved? We are saved by faith through grace that He is the Son of God who has come to save us from our sins (which he accomplishes by His death and resurrection) but it isn’t the process that saves us, it is Christ.

Lots of people are saved without having any theological knowledge, because they put their faith in Christ.

Non responsive.

 

[A New Dawn]

Non responsive.

You expect me to take your word for things and then claim I am non-responsive?

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

You expect me to take your word for things and then claim I am non-responsive?

Non responsive.

 

[A New Dawn]

Non responsive.

You obviously have no interest in a real discussion if you can’t provide references for your own bullet points.

 

[fhansen]

freewill speaking of in the Bible is the will to seek after God. We as sinners by nature cannot do that because of the Sin that lives within us.

Acts 17:26-31 clearly states the God structured things so that man can and should seek Him, and that He wants all to repent.

 

[pasifika]

Acts 17:26-31 clearly states the God structured things so that man can and should seek Him, and that He wants all to repent.

Sure, in our minds we want to seek God but our hearts always fall short of doing it. As Paul said in Romans 7 " the good I wanted to do I don't do, but the evil I don't want to do this I keep on doing it"..

 

[Palmfever]

Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come here means no man has the ability to come to Christ. That cancels out the myth that man has a freewill

It cancels nothing.

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

He has done it.

Called and drawn 'All Men.'
Now the choice is ours.

For many are called, but few are chosen.

Again the calling, the drawing is and was to/for all men.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The choice is ours.

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Open the door.

'The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead, he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

We choose to reject or accept.
Cslvinism is a lie.

 

[fhansen]

Sure, in our minds we want to seek God but our hearts always fall short of doing it. As Paul said in Romans 7 " the good I wanted to do I don't do, but the evil I don't want to do this I keep on doing it"..

Yes, and the answer is Jesus Christ!-as vs 25 of Rom 7 proclaims. And Rom 8 is then about the grace, the life and power of the Holy Spirit given us with which to overcome that sin, that slavery depicted in Rom 6, so that we may become slaves to righteousness.

 

[pasifika]

Yes, and the answer is Jesus Christ!-as vs 25 of Rom 7 proclaims. And Rom 8 is then about the grace, the life and power of the Holy Spirit given us with which to overcome that sin, that slavery depicted in Rom 6, so that we may become slaves to righteousness.

Yes the answer is Jesus and the choice is also His to make us His slaves to spread the fragrance of the Gospel...

 

[fhansen]

Yes the answer is Jesus and the choice is also His to make us His slaves to spread the fragrance of the Gospel...

And without that slavery to righteousness, that good fruit, we won't be seeing Him.