Gallup: Drop in U.S. Religiosity Among Largest in World

[2PhiloVoid]

Sort of like MAGA.

I knew someone would bring that up. But yes, of course. The 'Right' has their own version of the same differential phenomena.

And what does that mean? It means people on the Left ALSO need to avoid stereotyping what they think is the "other side."

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The perception that the wrong person might be getting some at a cost them.

It really is that simple. Christians of whatever type are just as spiteful as anyone else.

I'm spiteful? It's strange that I'm not the one taking a personalized and direct initiative to camp out for a very long while on one of the "oppositions" courtyards [such as CF here] so I can press my protestations and "be heard."

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

The 17-point drop in the percentage of U.S. adults who say religion is an important part of their daily life — from 66% in 2015 to 49% today — ranks among the largest Gallup has recorded in any country over any 10-year period since 2007.

About half of Americans now say religion is not an important part of their daily life. They remain as divided on the question today as they were last year.

As religiosity has declined in the U.S., the gap between the U.S. and the global median has widened. The global median for religiosity has remained stable for nearly two decades, averaging 81% since 2007 and reaching 83% last year, the most current full-year data available.

At the same time, attitudes in the U.S. are drawing closer to those in other advanced economies.

U.S. Now Occupies Unique Spot in Global Religiosity​

View attachment 373154

Yep. Not surprised. Evil is rising, but bursts of faith are arising here and there as well, as always. We know the ending if we have read The Book.

 

[JosephZ]

Properly understood, it absolutely does. But that takes engagement with Islamic scholarship and the Sunnah material, where it is clear that Muhammad used the threat of conversion or death against the people of Mecca when he overthrew the city. And forms that deny death for apostasy are the exception, whereas it is the prescriptive punishment by pretty much all mainline divisions(sunni, shia, sufi)

The Quran does not allow the execution of those who refuse to convert.

There shall be no compulsion in religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. (Qur'an 2:256)

(There is no compulsion in religion), meaning, "Do not force anyone to become Muslim, for Islam is plain and clear, and its proofs and evidence are plain and clear. Therefore, there is no need to force anyone to embrace Islam. Rather, whoever Allah directs to Islam, opens his heart for it and enlightens his mind, will embrace Islam with certainty. Whoever Allah blinds his heart and seals his hearing and sight, then he will not benefit from being forced to embrace Islam." (Quran 2:256 Tafsir Ibn Kathir)

Those who believe, and those who are Jewish, and the Christians, and the Sabeans—any who believe in God and the Last Day, and act righteously will have their reward with their Lord; they have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve. (Qur'an 2:62)

“The truth is from your Lord. Whoever wills, let him believe. And whoever wills, let him disbelieve” (Qur'an 18:29)


Muhammad didn't use the threat of conversion or death against the people of Mecca

The Prophet Muḥammad’s Covenant with Yūḥannah Ibn Ru’bah and the Christians of Aylah

In accordance with the Qur’anic admonition that there is to be no coercion in matters of faith, the Prophet Muḥammad did not force the Christians he encountered to convert to Islam, nor did the Prophet belittle or ridicule their religion.

Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah - The Life of Muhammad Translated by A. Guillaume

The apostle had instructed his commanders when they entered Mecca only to fight those who resisted them, except a small number who were to be killed even if they were found beneath the curtains of the Kaʿba.

Whoever lays down his arms is safe, and whoever locks his door is safe.

When the apostle prayed the noon prayer on the day of the conquest he ordered that all the idols which were round the Ka'ba should be collected and burned with fire and broken up... [The] Quraysh had put pictures in the Ka'ba including two of Jesus son of Mary and Mary (on both of whom be peace!)... The apostle ordered that the pictures should be erased except those of Jesus and Mary.

"O you people of Quraysh! What do you think of the treatment that I am about to accord to you?"

They replied:

"O noble brother and son of a noble brother! We expect nothing but goodness from you."

Upon this, the Messenger of Allah -peace be upon him- said:

"I speak to you in the same words as Joseph spoke unto his brothers: 'This day, there is no reproof against you; go your way, for you are freed ones!'"

 

[Fervent]

The Quran does not allow the execution of those who refuse to convert.

There shall be no compulsion in religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. (Qur'an 2:256)

(There is no compulsion in religion), meaning, "Do not force anyone to become Muslim, for Islam is plain and clear, and its proofs and evidence are plain and clear. Therefore, there is no need to force anyone to embrace Islam. Rather, whoever Allah directs to Islam, opens his heart for it and enlightens his mind, will embrace Islam with certainty. Whoever Allah blinds his heart and seals his hearing and sight, then he will not benefit from being forced to embrace Islam." (Quran 2:256 Tafsir Ibn Kathir)

Those who believe, and those who are Jewish, and the Christians, and the Sabeans—any who believe in God and the Last Day, and act righteously will have their reward with their Lord; they have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve. (Qur'an 2:62)

“The truth is from your Lord. Whoever wills, let him believe. And whoever wills, let him disbelieve” (Qur'an 18:29)


Muhammad didn't use the threat of conversion or death against the people of Mecca

The Prophet Muḥammad’s Covenant with Yūḥannah Ibn Ru’bah and the Christians of Aylah

In accordance with the Qur’anic admonition that there is to be no coercion in matters of faith, the Prophet Muḥammad did not force the Christians he encountered to convert to Islam, nor did the Prophet belittle or ridicule their religion.

Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah - The Life of Muhammad Translated by A. Guillaume

The apostle had instructed his commanders when they entered Mecca only to fight those who resisted them, except a small number who were to be killed even if they were found beneath the curtains of the Kaʿba.

Whoever lays down his arms is safe, and whoever locks his door is safe.

When the apostle prayed the noon prayer on the day of the conquest he ordered that all the idols which were round the Ka'ba should be collected and burned with fire and broken up... [The] Quraysh had put pictures in the Ka'ba including two of Jesus son of Mary and Mary (on both of whom be peace!)... The apostle ordered that the pictures should be erased except those of Jesus and Mary.

"O you people of Quraysh! What do you think of the treatment that I am about to accord to you?"

They replied:

"O noble brother and son of a noble brother! We expect nothing but goodness from you."

Upon this, the Messenger of Allah -peace be upon him- said:

"I speak to you in the same words as Joseph spoke unto his brothers: 'This day, there is no reproof against you; go your way, for you are freed ones!'"

As is expected, you're ignoring my flagging the principle of abrogation and citing a verse from the Medina period. Though this is not the thread for getting into the ins and outs of Islamic jurisprudence.

 

[JosephZ]

As is expected, you're ignoring my flagging the principle of abrogation and citing a verse from the Medina period. Though this is not the thread for getting into the ins and outs of Islamic jurisprudence.

Nevertheless, your statement was incorrect.

 

[Fervent]

Nevertheless, your statement was incorrect.

No, it just requires more background than I am willing to put in when it isn't relevant to the thread. It hinges on the "when properly understood" which requires hermeneutic principles like abrogation of early verses by later ones and referring to the sira literature and hadith.

 

[BCP1928]

I'm spiteful? It's strange that I'm not the one taking a personalized and direct initiative to camp out for a very long while on one of the "oppositions" courtyards [such as CF here] so I can press my protestations and "be heard."

This is not an "opposition" courtyard. What I do see here is Christians blaming the decline in religiosity on anyone but themselves.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

This is not an "opposition" courtyard. What I do see here is Christians blaming the decline in religiosity on anyone but themselves.

.... uh .... in what way specifically am I to take the blame for the religious decline in the U.S.?

 

[Hans Blaster]

.... uh .... in what way specifically am I to take the blame for the religious decline in the U.S.?

Well, let's see...

... just kidding. There isn't anything you could do.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Well, let's see...

... just kidding. There isn't anything you could do.

Years ago, I might have disagreed with you on this, but these days, I think you're more correct than you know, Hans.

There really is little, or essentially nothing, I can do to assuage the religious decline in the U.S.

 

[Larniavc]

I'm spiteful?

I did not say that.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I did not say that.

.... ah ah, now, now! You said, "Christians of whatever type..." That's me.

 

[Larniavc]

It's strange that I'm not the one taking a personalized and direct initiative to camp out for a very long while on one of the "oppositions" courtyards [such as CF here] so I can press my protestations and "be heard."

Who knows that one protest on this forum might one day save the world?

 

[Larniavc]

.... ah ah, now, now! You said, "Christians of whatever type..." That's me.

To be fair my point is that Christians are just as spiteful as everyone else. No more or less than average.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

To be fair my point is that Christians are just as spiteful as everyone else. No more or less than average.

Wow! I never thought of myself as 'malicious' ........................


spiteful

adjective​

1. Filled with, prompted by, or showing spite; malicious.
2. Filled with, or showing, spite; having a desire to vex, annoy, or injure; malignant; malicious.
   "a spiteful person or act."
3. Showing malicious ill will and a desire to hurt; motivated by spite. "a vindictive man will look for occasions for resentment"
   

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Who knows that one protest on this forum might one day save the world?

... who knows? You may be right. I mean, you might be that ONE who can make the difference.

 

[Larniavc]

... who knows? You may be right. I mean, you might be that ONE who can make the difference.

View attachment 373352

lol. I do play D&D. I am short and stocky. I am a Dungeon Master. My friends have thrown that picture at me many times, you sly fox

 

[rambot]

The early churches did have salaries, as we know from Paul refusing to take his.

Ok. Was it a salary or was it money?

And one of the complicating factors over taxation is that the judiciary has affirmed that the power to tax is the power to destroy, so subjecting churches to taxes runs the risk of not only free exercise complications but also establishment risks. There is also an extreme financial element to Christianity given the extent of Christ's focus on financial issues, and religious reasons for secretive charitable giving(do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing) that such government enforced transparancy may lead to the violation of a person's religious conscience. So it does serve to have an inhibitory effect, even if you personally don't feel inhibited by it.

I understand all this legal mumbojumbo.

But again:
IT costs me zero dollars to worship Christ, to pray and to gather with my fellow Christians.

It can cost anyone zero dollars to do the same.

So taxes would inhibit churches; not religious worship.

[my italics]:"extreme financial element to Christianity"? I would ABSOLUTELY take exception to the inclusion of the word "extreme" but I would be curious to hear which particular verses bring you to that conclusion.

 

[rambot]

It really is that simple. Christians of whatever type are just as spiteful as anyone else.

I disagree with that.
I would say "spiteful people can be Christians"... my family is all christians and not one of them is in any way spiteful.