Gallup: Drop in U.S. Religiosity Among Largest in World

[Fervent]

This is not public information, as it is for charities.

That's true, and at a certain size I see no reason to object to 990s but I'm not sure how many churches have the administrative capabilities of filing those kinds of forms. So perhaps if some threshold was established, or even only requiring it of denominations rather than local church bodies. Though I'm still not sure how it would fly with the free exercise clause.

 

[Sportsballfan]

Well, that clears it up completely...

The system did an autocorrect. ‍*shrugs*

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

To some moderate extent that's true, but even so, it doesn't mean we should work and pray that Democrats will regain the presidency, congress and senate so we can turn this thing into a Chinese Democracy.

I don't vote to turn America into Chinese Democracy. I vote for better education for everyone, medical care , more programs to help the poor, kids and people in need. I worked with kids and noticed programs get shutdown, because of Bush. I have seen the same patterns since.

 

[essentialsaltes]

So are we just allowed to make little adjustments and that’s allowed?

Well, that clears it up completely...

OK Sportsballfan, I think the answer to your question is in this part of the site rules

Profanity or foul language is not allowed. This includes using punctuation, symbols, or acronyms to bypass the profanity filter.

So certain ways of 'hiding' profanity are NOT allowed, but changing the word to a non-profane near-synonym is okay. Saying cowpoo may make you feel durned silly, but it's allowed.

 

[Hans Blaster]

That's true, and at a certain size I see no reason to object to 990s but I'm not sure how many churches have the administrative capabilities of filing those kinds of forms. So perhaps if some threshold was established, or even only requiring it of denominations rather than local church bodies. Though I'm still not sure how it would fly with the free exercise clause.

The last I checked, the "small organization" threshold to not file for non-churches was $5 or 10 thousand in revenue.

 

[Fervent]

The last I checked, the "small organization" threshold to not file for non-churches was $5 or 10 thousand in revenue

monthly? annually? and given the constitutional protections for religious exercise that doesnt exist for general charities I dont know if a 1 to 1 comparison is apt.

 

[rambot]

I'm more thinking metaphysical grounding, rather than developmental.

What? Metaphysical groundings can come from those things too.

It only makes sense. Everything else can be at odds, but if we can agree to be peacemakers and show the love of God our allegiance will be clear.

Yeah. Frankly, I was really struggling with how to figure that out for a while and a well timed sermon on those Fruits radically simplified and clarified and simple it is

Of course, there are complicating factors. There are some "personality types" that have great, great difficultly following along with a few fruits.

 

[Hans Blaster]

monthly? annually?

How do you usually file forms to the IRS?

and given the constitutional protections for religious exercise that doesnt exist for general charities I dont know if a 1 to 1 comparison is apt.

Filing a tax form does not inhibit "free exercise" (and neither would property taxes).

 

[Fervent]

What? Metaphysical groundings can come from those things too.

How so? In light of the is-ought problem, I don't really see a basis for metaphysical grounding outside of an objective moral agent.

Yeah. Frankly, I was really struggling with how to figure that out for a while and a well timed sermon on those Fruits radically simplified and clarified and simple it is

Yeah, it took supernatural intervention to open my eyes.

Of course, there are complicating factors. There are some "personality types" that have great, great difficultly following along with a few fruits.

Yeah, that's why I don't make a habit of sorting "Christian" and "non-Christian" outside of broad generalities. God knows the heart, and some people are being brought along slowly.

 

[Fervent]

How do you usually file forms to the IRS?

I'm not sure how tax burdens are determined, quarterly?

Filing a tax form does not inhibit "free exercise" (and neither would property taxes).

It has an inhibitory effect that could easily qualify as a restriction on free exercise.

 

[rambot]

How so? In light of the is-ought problem, I don't really see a basis for metaphysical grounding outside of an objective moral agent.

And yet.....

They exist.

So what's next?

 

[Fervent]

And yet.....

They exist.

So what's next?

I'm game to hear you defend this, but we're getting a little off topic. So if you're up to it, PM me because I've never encountered one. In fact, most moral philosophy has abandoned the idea of grounded morality entirely and shifted to more practical questions.

 

[rambot]

It has an inhibitory effect that could easily qualify as a restriction on free exercise.

I disagree.

IT's not like the early churches had salaries or major expenses. House churches were common. These were legitimate ways to freely exercise your rights.

I don't see how a tax could inhibit me practicing my religion. I can't think of a single "requirement of the faith" that requires any kind of significant expenditure...or frankly any expenditure except for a bit of wine and bread.
And I'm not trying to be facetious or anything now...... is there?.

It costs me nothing to meet with my friends in our houses. To sing and worship and have fun together for a while.

Just because a church building would get taxed, doesn't mean I can't practice my religion as a privately owned physical building is also no real requirement to the faith.

 

[Fervent]

I disagree.

IT's not like the early churches had salaries or major expenses. House churches were common. These were legitimate ways to freely exercise your rights.

I don't see how a tax could inhibit me practicing my religion. I can't think of a single "requirement of the faith" that requires any kind of significant expenditure...or frankly any expenditure except for a bit of wine and bread.
And I'm not trying to be facetious or anything now...... is there?.

It costs me nothing to meet with my friends in our houses. To sing and worship and have fun together for a while.

Just because a church building would get taxed, doesn't mean I can't practice my religion as a privately owned physical building is also no real requirement to the faith.

The early churches did have salaries, as we know from Paul refusing to take his. And one of the complicating factors over taxation is that the judiciary has affirmed that the power to tax is the power to destroy, so subjecting churches to taxes runs the risk of not only free exercise complications but also establishment risks. There is also an extreme financial element to Christianity given the extent of Christ's focus on financial issues, and religious reasons for secretive charitable giving(do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing) that such government enforced transparancy may lead to the violation of a person's religious conscience. So it does serve to have an inhibitory effect, even if you personally don't feel inhibited by it.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I'm not sure how tax burdens are determined, quarterly?

You file taxes quarterly? (and we're not talking about any tax burden. Just an annual form of accounts.

It has an inhibitory effect that could easily qualify as a restriction on free exercise.

It isn't.