Who then can be saved?

[Dan1988]

So these evil people who died in the flood were doing what God wanted them to do or were they doing what God didn’t want them to do?

That's a silly question, because none of your two options are biblical, they just show that your theology is twisted. God allowed them to sin for a time, and then they went into everlasting punishment in hell.
God takes vengeance on all unbelievers, His wrath lasts eternally and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[fhansen]

You can believe in that god who failed in his attempt to save the whole world, but I believe in the God of the Bible who never fails to achieve His goals, because He is Almighty.

It you understood the gospel you'd know that God doesn't fail; He allows man to fail and that's why we have a place called hell. Hell is a choice, to remain separate from God with all that implies.

Our theology didn't come from a book, so you're dead wrong there. Our theology comes from 66 books, and yes we believe that Gods Word (the 66 books) trumps anything your guys with long beards and robes have to offer. I'll follow the Lord and you c an follow your guys.

The bible's not a book now? Beards? You're thinking of some other group I guess but either way I'll say you certainly like to argue, but ignorantly and unconvincingly. You assume I'm wrong. You haven't studied on your own enough to even know.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That's a silly question, because none of your two options are biblical, they just show that your theology is twisted. God allowed them to sin for a time, and then they went into everlasting punishment in hell.
God takes vengeance on all unbelievers, His wrath lasts eternally and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

You didn’t answer the question. Did God want them to sin or were they doing something that God didn’t want them to do?

 

[contratodo]

Where did you get the idea that God is obliged to save every devil

He is not obliged to take them to heaven, but to give them opportunity to repent and be worthy of heaven, because He said His way is fair Ezekiel 18, and that He will be judging in righteousness, that is not my opinion, that is what He through Paul said, Acts 17:30-31

"But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and earth, and some to honor and others dishonor. If a man purge himself from dishonor, he shall be a vessel of honor, sanctified and meet for the masters use and prepared until every good work." 2 Timothy 2:20-21

"How can a man cleanse his way? By taking heed unto the word of God." Psalm 119:9-10

Commanding someone to do what they can not possibly do is called evil in the Bible; Exodus 5:23 KJV one must also read the whole chapter for context.

God is not evil . Therefore, according to solid scripture, not my opinion, it is possible for anyone to find repentance via faith in Christ.

"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.'" Romans 10:17

You are saying that faith comes some other way, and the scripture does not say such.
And as someone else pointed out to you
John 6:45
"...He therefore that has heard and has learned from the Father comes to me."

The way anyone hears from the Father is through His word. We are to be in the business of sharing His word and the good news about Him with each and every creature, as He commanded.

"Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature...". Mark 16:15-16

 

[Dan1988]

Do you even think about what you post before you post it? You’re the one who refuses to acknowledge everything that was taught in the early church. Where were your shepherds then? According to you the entire church fell away and began teaching a different gospel. You can’t even get your lies straight.

As I have already explained earlier, the early Church has nothing but confusion and strife to offer. We now have 2000 years of refinement behind us during which time the Church has got rid of all those Gnostic heresies, which you are desperately trying to resurrect.

Why would any reasonable person look to the ancient Gnostics for instruction, while todays Church possesses the whole counsel of God and the completed Canon of Scripture which none of the prophets or apostles had. We know more about God today, than all of the prophets and apostles combined. So you need to deal with the facts before you make silly claims which are based on nothing but your emotions and feelings.

 

[Dan1988]

It’s a personal letter written from Paul to Timothy. The only we and us in there is Paul and Timothy. You don’t use the words we and us in a letter to a particular person when you’re referring to someone else. Anyone with a second grade education knows that.

OK, ,so you believe Paul was including the reprobate in his letter to Timothy. Anyone with a second grade education knows that is nonsense

 

[Dan1988]

It you understood the gospel you'd know that God doesn't fail; He allows man to fail and that's why we have a place called hell. Hell is a choice, to remain separate from God with all that implies.

The bible's not a book now? Beards? You're thinking of some other group I guess but either way I'll say you certainly like to argue, but ignorantly and unconvincingly. You assume I'm wrong. You haven't studied on your own enough to even know.

I don't enjoy taking my big red marker and putting big red crosses through all of your opinions. You are entitled to your own private opinions, but just remember there are 8 billion other opinions out there and most contradict and oppose each other.

Your private and unbiblical opinion that "hell is a choice, to remain separate from God", couldn't be further from the truth. You only say that because you obviously don't know how horrific and painful hell is.

You reckon hell is a choice but Gods Word confirms that nobody choses hell, the truth is Jesus throws people in there, while they are begging for mercy. Jesus shows no mercy and casts them into the lake of fire where they spend eternity swimming in red hot lava while they scream in agony at the top of their voices. Now does that sound like a place anyone would choose????

 

[Dan1988]

You didn’t answer the question. Did God want them to sin or were they doing something that God didn’t want them to do?

As I sated earlier, both of your options are nonsensical. God never wants anything, if He ever wanted anything then He wouldn't be God.
You might want a Ferrari, instead of your Nissan. But you can't afford a Ferrari so all you can do is dream about owning one. God is not like you, if He desired a Ferrari He would have one in a flash. So you need to stop bringing God down to your level.

 

[Dan1988]

He is not obliged to take them to heaven, but to give them opportunity to repent and be worthy of heaven, because He said His way is fair Ezekiel 18, and that He will be judging in righteousness, that is not my opinion, that is what He through Paul said, Acts 17:30-31

"But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and earth, and some to honor and others dishonor. If a man purge himself from dishonor, he shall be a vessel of honor, sanctified and meet for the masters use and prepared until every good work." 2 Timothy 2:20-21

"How can a man cleanse his way? By taking heed unto the word of God." Psalm 119:9-10

Commanding someone to do what they can not possibly do is called evil in the Bible; Exodus 5:23 KJV one must also read the whole chapter for context.

God is not evil . Therefore, according to solid scripture, not my opinion, it is possible for anyone to find repentance via faith in Christ.

"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.'" Romans 10:17

You are saying that faith comes some other way, and the scripture does not say such.
And as someone else pointed out to you
John 6:45
"...He therefore that has heard and has learned from the Father comes to me."

The way anyone hears from the Father is through His word. We are to be in the business of sharing His word and the good news about Him with each and every creature, as He commanded.

"Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature...". Mark 16:15-16

I have debunked your interpretation of all of these verses before. I'm not sure why you think that repeating false interpretations over and over again will convince me to reject what God has said and believe in your private opinions instead.

I have asked you to find a single verse in the bible to support your unbiblical, Arminian version of the gospel, which holds to the "saved by works", instead of the Biblical "saved by grace" gospel.

“The Order of Salvation”

1. Election (God’s choice of people to be saved)

2. The gospel call (proclaiming the message of the gospel)

3. Regeneration (being born again)

4. Conversion (faith and repentance)

5. Justification (right legal standing)

6. Adoption (membership in God’s family)

7. Sanctification (right conduct of life)

8. Perseverance (remaining a Christian)

9. Death (going to be with the Lord)

10. Glorification (receiving a resurrection body)

Does the New Testament Teach Predestination?
Several passages in the New Testament confirm quite clearly that God ordained beforehand those who would be saved. When Paul and Barnabas began to preach to the Gentiles in Antioch in Pisidia, Luke writes, “And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of God; and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed” (Acts 13:48).
It is significant that Luke mentions the fact of election almost in passing. It is as if this were the normal occurrence when the gospel was preached. How many believed? “As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.”

In Romans 8:28–30, we read:
We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren. And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.

In the following chapter, when talking about God’s chosing Jacob and not Esau, Paul says it was not because of anything that Jacob or Esau had done, but simply in order that God’s purpose of election might continue.

Though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad, in order that God’s purpose of election might continue not because of works but because of his call, she was told, “The elder will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” (Rom. 9:11–13)

Regarding the fact that some of the people of Israel were saved, but others were not, Paul says: “Israel failed to obtain what it sought. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened” (Rom. 11:7). Here again Paul indicates two distinct groups within the people of Israel. Those who were “the elect” obtained the salvation that they sought, while those who were not the elect simply “were hardened.”

Paul talks explicitly about God’s choice of believers before the foundation of the world in the beginning of Ephesians.

“He chose us in him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before him. He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace.” (Eph. 1:4–6)

Here Paul is writing to believers and he specifically says that God “chose us” in Christ, referring to believers generally. In a similar way, several verses later he says, “We who first hoped in Christ have been destined and appointed to live for the praise of his glory” (Eph. 1:12).

He writes to the Thessalonians, “For we know, brethren beloved by God, that he has chosen you; for our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction” (1 Thess. 1:4–5).

Paul says that the fact that the Thessalonians believed the gospel when he preached it (“for our gospel came to you … in power … and with full conviction”) is the reason he knows that God chose them. As soon as they came to faith Paul concluded that long ago God had chosen them, and therefore they had believed when he preached. He later writes to the same church, “We are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth” (2 Thess. 2:13).

When Paul talks about the reason why God saved us and called us to himself, he explicitly denies that it was because of our works, but points rather to God’s own purpose and his unmerited grace in eternity past. He says God is the one “who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not in virtue of our works but in virtue of his own purpose and the grace which he gave us in Christ Jesus ages ago” (2 Tim. 1:9).

When Peter writes an epistle to hundreds of Christians in many churches in Asia Minor, he writes, “To God’s elect … scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia” (1 Peter 1:1). He later calls them “a chosen race” (1 Peter 2:9). Also 2 Peter 1:3,10…

In John’s vision in Revelation, those who do not give in to persecution and begin to worship the beast are persons whose names have been written in the book of life before the foundation of the world: “And authority was given it over every tribe and people and tongue and nation, and all who dwell on earth will worship it, every one whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain” (Rev. 13:7–8)
In a similar way, we read of the beast from the bottomless pit in Revelation 17: “The dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to behold the beast, because it was and is not and is to come” (Rev. 17:8).

The New Testament authors often present the doctrine of election as a comfort to believers. When Paul assures the Romans that “in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose” (Rom. 8:28), he gives God’s work of predestination as a reason why we can be assured of this truth. He explains in the next verse, “For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son … And those whom he predestined he also called … justified … glorified” (Rom. 8:29–30).

Paul says, “He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace” (Eph. 1:5–6). Similarly, he says, “We who first hoped in Christ have been destined and appointed to live for the praise of his glory” (Eph. 1:12).

If you reject all of the above passages of scripture, then I have no choice other than to conclude that you're not interested in the truth of the gospel and your aim is not to defend the gospel but it's to defend your own private opinion to save face.

 

[fhansen]

You only say that because you obviously don't know how horrific and painful hell is.

And that’s what makes the alternative, that hell is God’s choice for some, all the more repulsive. The pain of hell is the absence of God, the absence of love in favor of the cold, selfish, pride that already causes the harm we see everyday in this world.

And my opinion is at least consistent with the millennia-old opinion of the Church Christ established.