What is the meaning of Total Depravity?

[fhansen]

Was there the Law's curse of death on Cain's murder?

He was already dead; that's why he murdered. All men died the moment Adam & Eve ate of the fruit. That explains Rom 5:14:
"Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses."

 

[Clare73]

He was already dead; that's why he murdered. All men died the moment Adam & Eve ate of the fruit. That explains Rom 5:14:
"Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses."

So Cain was a dead body walking?

That's a new one. . .

Is that your reconciliation of human death with no cause for human death because there was no Law to sin against?

Death is the wages of sin (Ro 6:23).
Where there is no law, there is no sin (Ro 4:15) and, therefore, no death.
There was no law between Adam and Moses, and they all died anyway (Ro 5:13-14).
Of what sin did they die?
They died of the imputed sin of Adam (Ro 5:14, 17, 18-19). . .which was the pattern (Ro 5:14) for the imputed righteousness of Christ (Ro 5:18-19).

 

[fhansen]

So Cain was a dead body walking?

Exactly, that's why a body walking must be born again.

That's a new one. . .

Well, not to Christ in His conversation with Nicodemus.

Is that your reconciliation of human death with no cause for human death because there was no Law to sin against?

Again,
"Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses."

So, now, why would that be?

 

[Clare73]

Exactly, that's why a body walking must be born again.

The body is not born again.
Regeneration (rebirth) is of one's spirit, from eternal death to eternal life by the sovereign will (as unaccounable as the wind, Jn 3:6-8) of the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:3-5).

Well, not to Christ in His conversation with Nicodemus.

As a Catholic, your understanding of material vs. spiritual in Jn 3:3-8. should be as least as good as that of a Protestant.
"Material" relates to matters of one's physical body, "spiritual" refers to matters of the Holy Spirit and also to one's own spirit.

Again,
"Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses."

So, now, why would that be?

Because of the imputed sin of Adam (Ro 5:17, 12-16) to all those of Adam (Ro 5:18-19). . .and which imputation was the pattern (Ro 5:14) for the imputed righteousness of Christ to all those of Christ (Ro 1:17, 3:21, 4:5, 5:18-19, Php 3:9).

 

[fhansen]

As a Catholic, your understanding of material vs. spiritual in Jn 3:3-8. should be as least as good as that of a Protestant.
"Material" relates to matters of one's physical body, "spiritual" refers to matters of the Holy Spirit and also to one's own spirit.

And both were obtained by Adam at the Fall.
"of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. If we don't unite with and remain in Him we wither and die; we have no life in us. Adam killed man by his disobedience, his refusal to acknowledge God as God. We all died with Adam. And this is why we don't even know God at birth, and why knowledge of God is essentail to having eternal life.
"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3.

Adam alienated man from God, and Jesus reconciles and restores that relationship and that is precisely where your justice or righteousness lies within that union.

 

[Clare73]

And both were obtained by Adam at the Fall.
"of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. If we don't unite with and remain in Him we wither and die; we have no life in us. Adam killed man by his disobedience, his refusal to acknowledge God as God. We all died with Adam.

Then how do you explain all the living bodies walking around?

 

[Clare73]

And both were obtained by Adam at the Fall.
"of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Which it took 930 years for his body to do.

The Hebrew is: "Dying, you shall die."

His spirit died (lost eternal life) and his body died years later.

 

[fhansen]

Then how do you explain all the living bodies walking around?

They may think they're alive but apart from Christ they are not. Do you think this world is the one God originally intended for man? Do you think the sin and evil that we experience here are the best God can do? Is that how a truly alive man acts?

How and why must a man be born again?

Which it took 930 years for his body to do.

And that's the point. Adam died immediately by his disobedience, as God said he would.

 

[Clare73]

They may think they're alive but apart from Christ they are not.

I'm too grounded to buy the notion that Christ-denying Jews are not physically alive.

Do you think this world is the one God originally intended for man? Do you think the sin and evil that we experience here are the best God can do?

I think the whole "schtick" is the sovereign God's (Da 4:35) plan (Ro 9:22-24), down to the last detail.

Is that how a truly alive man acts?

How and why must a man be born again?

Is he born again with the same color hair and eyes as before?

And that's the point. Adam died immediately by his disobedience.

And yet he sired a family after that. . .how does that work?

 

[fhansen]

Which it took 930 years for his body to do.

The Hebrew is: "Dying, you shall die."

His spirit died (lost eternal life) and his body died years later.

And, as God said, the day he ate from the tree he would die. And he did. God did not lie, while the serpent did. Both physical and spiritual death parallel each other. So physical mortality entered man's world on that day as well.

If we we're apart from God we are dead, regardless. And if we're with him we live, regardless.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; Matt 11:25

 

[Clare73]

And, as God said, the day he ate from the tree he would die. And he did. God did not lie, while the serpent did. Both physical and spiritual death parallel each other. So physical mortality entered man's world on that day as well.

If we we're apart from God we are dead, regardless. And if we're with him we live, regardless.

The NT vocabulary is more precise, distinguishing between spiritual life and physical life,
positing possession of one (physical life) without the other (spiritual life), which absence thereof is spiritual death, but not physical death.

So the human body can be alive while the human spirit is dead,
and the human spirit is alive while the body is dead (2 Co 5:1-9).

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; Matt 11:25