Vatican stops use of titles for Mary

[concretecamper]

To talk about the article from the Vatican and the obvious corrections they are making - read the article

What corrections? None need to be made. Come on, let's hear it.

 

[concretecamper]

Telling someone to read between the lines is not a correction - it is an assumption at best.

This isn't the first time I needed to correct you on Catholic issues, and given your attitude, it won't be the last.

 

[Fervent]

Because some people here think because I am not Roman Catholic, it automatically makes me ignorant. Which is ignorance itself. The thought that anyone who disagrees is obviously ill informed is gross ignorance IMHO and reminding those detractors that I am educated helps other readers understand my back ground.

If you have to tell people you're educated...it kind of calls into question the quality of that education.

Why does that bother you so much?

I quoted the article verbatim -
the article is from the Vatican -
Your issues are not with me, but the Vatican.

Nope not any more that the numerous thread discussing theology of the 'Protestant (His Church also)' denominations.

See - this is the General Theology Forum, where we are free to discuss any Christian Theological Topics.

There is no protected class here - there are forums where the Roman Catholic Church is protected - that is why I don't post there.

But to restate yet again:

From the Vatican:



Sole means - only.

Appears the Vatican is simply giving guidance about a term they never officially endorsed, by stating it is inappropriate. What doesn't seem to be happening is any change in what the Catholic church teaches...because they never sanctioned the title.

 

[Always in His Presence]

If you have to tell people you're educated...it kind of calls into question the quality of that education.

Thank you for your opinion

Appears the Vatican is simply giving guidance about a term they never officially endorsed, by stating it is inappropriate. What doesn't seem to be happening is any change in what the Catholic church teaches...because they never sanctioned the title.

Thank you for your observation.

 

[Fervent]

Anything on the topic of the thread?

Which evidently is troubling to some so much they have to deflect.

it's not the thread that appears to be troublig folks, but your framing of the issue which is misleading.

 

[concretecamper]

The title of the Thread is a lie. The Vatican has not stopped using titles for Mary.

And the press release itself doesn't indicate a change of theology, but only says it will not use the Title of Co-Redemptrix because of the confusion is causes.

And when the OP is called out, act all innocent.

 

[Fidelibus]

Yes, you keep reminding everyone about that I wonder why?

I thought the same thing CC when I read his post. Why his continuous appeal to authority? Hmmm.... it does make one wonder.


Have a Blessed day!

 

[Always in His Presence]

The title of the Thread is a lie. The Vatican has not stopped using titles for Mary.

Oh, let's look shall we -

Catholic News Agency -

Vatican nixes use of 'Co-Redemptrix' as title for Mary​

​

Definition: nixed; nixing; nixes
Synonyms of nix
transitive verb
US, informal
: to refuse to accept or allow (something) : veto, reject

What makes you think the Catholic News Agency is lying about a letter from Cardinal Víctor Manuel Fernández, prefect of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith? Which was approved by the pope -

Pope Leo XIV approved the document, signed by DDF prefect Cardinal Víctor Manuel Fernández, on Oct. 7.

Especially when the good Reverend states plainly:

In a preface to the note, Fernández wrote that the document responds to questions the dicastery received in recent decades about Marian devotion and certain Marian titles, and clarifies which are acceptable.​

​

The DDF concluded that “some titles, such as ‘Mediatrix of All Graces,’ have limits that do not favor a correct understanding of Mary’s unique place.”​

​

I offered no comment other than to quote the article. Thank you.

 

[Always in His Presence]

And when the OP is called out, act all innocent.

I kindly refer you to the following:

Statement of Purpose - General Theology Statement of Purpose

General Theology Statement of Purpose The General Theology forums are for discussing and debating the various theological doctrines of the Christian faith. All member's who participate in GT are self-identified Christians through adherence to the Christian Forums' Statement of Faith and the...

www.christianforums.com

Handling Disagreements

Members who participate in the General Theology forums are expected to treat one another with courtesy and respect at all times, ESPECIALLY when you disagree with each other. It is not a flame for a member to disagree with another member's argument or opinion on a specific topic.

• When you disagree, address the content of the post and not the poster.
• When you disagree with someone's position, you should post evidence and supporting statements for your position. This policy, sometimes referred to as "X means Y because of Z", must be followed especially when posting claims that are widely considered to be controversial.

Thank you.

 

[concretecamper]

What makes you think the Catholic News Agency is lying about a letter from Cardinal Víctor Manuel Fernández, prefect of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith? Which was approved by the pope -

I claimed the title of the thread was a lie

Vatican stops use of titles for Mary​

which it is.

 

[Always in His Presence]

I claimed the title of the thread was a lie

Vatican stops use of titles for Mary​

which it is.

Vatican nixes use of 'Co-Redemptrix' as title for Mary

What does that mean?

 

[chevyontheriver]

Vatican nixes use of 'Co-Redemptrix' as title for Mary

What does that mean?

It means that the copy editor needed a short word that sort of applied for the topic at hand. Not always the proper word, but one of the correct length. One generally has to go to the source itself for the accurate sense and not rely on the choice of a copy editor who may or may not have a degree in theology.

 

[Always in His Presence]

It means that the copy editor needed a short word that sort of applied for the topic at hand. Not always the proper word, but one of the correct length. One generally has to go to the source itself for the accurate sense and not rely on the choice of a copy editor who may or may not have a degree in theology.

I was asking in refence to the title of the thread - they mean the same thing.

Why are my Roman Catholic Brothers and Sisters so very defensive, that one cannot even ask a question or request clarification.

The pope agrees with a paper from the head of the Roman Catholic Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith which plainly states the Mary is NOT a co-redemtrix and the title should not be used.

It is quoted from a Catholic source with documentation.

Instead of just simply discussing the matter, ad hominin attacks - name calling - personal accusations are offered. It's just so strange a series of replies. I mean, the belief systems aren't being attacked, just talking about a current issue from the Roman Catholic church - to the Roman Catholic church and I'm asking my Roman Catholic Brothers and Sisters what they think.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I was asking in refence to the title of the thread - they mean the same thing.

Why are my Roman Catholic Brothers and Sisters so very defensive, that one cannot even ask a question or request clarification.

The pope agrees with a paper from the head of the Roman Catholic Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith which plainly states the Mary is NOT a co-redemtrix and the title should not be used.

It is quoted from a Catholic source with documentation.

Instead of just simply discussing the matter, ad hominin attacks - name calling - personal accusations are offered. It's just so strange a series of replies. I mean, the belief systems aren't being attacked, just talking about a current issue from the Roman Catholic church - to the Roman Catholic church and I'm asking my Roman Catholic Brothers and Sisters what they think.

I think it is better to read a document in Toto instead of relying on a headline. Headlines can be quoted misleading. When I get home tomorrow I can download and read the whole thing instead of accepting one of the various takes from other people, including the ‘nix’ view, which does not accord with other views I have seen so far. If that’s defensive, so be it.

 

[Always in His Presence]

I think it is better to read a document in Toto instead of relying on a headline. Headlines can be quoted misleading. When I get home tomorrow I can download and read the whole thing instead of accepting one of the various takes from other people, including the ‘nix’ view, which does not accord with other views I have seen so far. If that’s defensive, so be it.

Thank you - that is a polite articulate reply. I appreciate it very much.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Mater Populi fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles Regarding Mary’s Cooperation in the Work of Salvation (4 November 2025)

Mater Populi fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles Regarding Mary’s Cooperation in the Work of Salvation (4 November 2025)

www.vatican.va

19. In the Feria IV meeting on 21 February 1996, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who was the Prefect of the then Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, was asked whether the request from the movement Vox Populi Mariae Mediatrici to define a dogma declaring Mary as the “Co-redemptrix” or “Mediatrix of All Graces” was acceptable. In his personal votum, he replied: “Negative. The precise meaning of these titles is not clear, and the doctrine contained in them is not mature. A defined doctrine of divine faith belongs to the Depositum Fidei — that is, to the divine revelation conveyed in Scripture and the apostolic tradition. However, it is not clear how the doctrine expressed in these titles is present in Scripture and the apostolic tradition.”[37] Later, in 2002, he publicly voiced his opinion against the use of the title: “the formula ‘Co-redemptrix’ departs to too great an extent from the language of Scripture and of the Fathers and therefore gives rise to misunderstandings…

 

[Always in His Presence]

20. The then Cardinal Ratzinger referred to the Letters to the Ephesians and to the Colossians, where the vocabulary and the theological dynamism of the hymns present the unique redemptive centrality of the incarnate Son in such a way as to leave no room to add any other form of mediation — for, “every spiritual blessing” is bestowed upon us “in Christ” (Eph 1:3); we are adopted as sons and daughters through him (cf. Eph 1:5); in him we have been graced (cf. Eph 1:6); “we have redemption through his blood” (Eph 1:7); and his grace has been “lavished on us” (Eph 1:8). “In him, we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined” (Eph 1:11). In him “all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell” (Col 1:19) and for him and through him, God willed “to reconcile all things” (Col 1:20). Such praise for the unique place of Christ calls us to situate every creature in a clearly receptive position in relation to him and to exercise careful, reverent caution whenever proposing any form of possible cooperation with him in the realm of Redemption.

 

[Jipsah]

So what do YOU make of it?

Like the man said, it sends a confusing message about the position of the VBM, one distracts from the unique role of our Lord Christ. There's one Redeemer, and referreing to the BVM as "co-redeemer" sounds as though there are two. IIt's good that the Vatican has seen fit to disallow the term

 

[Jipsah]

I wonder if the catechism has been updated.

Was the BVM referred to as a "co-redeemer" in the catechism? I can't imagine that she would be.

 

[Valletta]

Like the man said, it sends a confusing message about the position of the VBM, one distracts from the unique role of our Lord Christ. There's one Redeemer, and referreing to the BVM as "co-redeemer" sounds as though there are two. IIt's good that the Vatican has seen fit to disallow the term

I understand, but the whole meaning behind any of the terms using "co-" was that Mary fully cooperated with Jesus. Never was it meant to be on an equal footing, that's why a number of popes, such as John Paul II, used the title.