Verses that screen superficial believers out of the Kingdom of God

[Bob8102]

Because I vacillate between thinking I am a Christian and thinking I am not a Christian, I sometimes post in “Struggles by Non-Christians” and sometimes post elsewhere, such as under “New Christians.”

One verse that at least used to screen out non-true believers is John 6:53, where Jesus says “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.” John 6:66 (wow!) says “From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.” I once heard a Christian speaker say that, here, Jesus “put the pedal to the metal” and left superficial believers in the dust. Modern day understanding realizes that Jesus was talking about the Lord’s Supper and so the statement is not as challenging to us as it was to them.

But there are one or more verses that are just as challenging today as ever. A key one is Galations 2:20: “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life that I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself for me.”

Certainly, at least at first glance, this verse screens me out of the kingdom of heaven. I do not want to be crucified; I want to still live and not have someone else take my place. This concept goes against my self-preservation instinct and my self-identity. Therefore, I am left in the dust.

There are other verses that relate, like Jesus’ statements that one must deny themselves, take up their cross, and follow Him. As I contemplate converting to Christ, I see that Jesus did not explicitly issue this same challenge to all people that He talked to. And the concept is not explicitly mentioned when the New Testament talks about some people’s conversions. For instance, Jesus said to the woman at the well, “If you knew the gift of God, and Who it is that says to you, ‘give Me a drink’, you would have asked Him and He would have given you living water.” More than once, including yesterday at church, I have explicitly asked Jesus for living water. And in other places, the NT simply says things like a person or group of people “believed.” For instance, in Acts, after Paul had preached to people in a particular city, it says, “as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.” Thinking of this verse, I have on one or more occasions asked the Lord that I be one of the people “appointed to eternal life.”

So, I am thinking that, possibly, one can have a real conversion while concentrating on such a not-as-challenging verse.

Also, because I have both wavering faith and OCD, I tend to be in the “perfect storm” of doubt. As to my wavering faith, I tend to try to sincerely turn to Christ at moments, saying “Take me!”, but then the next moment I figure my attention to and my faith in Him wavers away. Just today, I have begun wondering if such a wavering-faith conversion can be a real conversion, brief as it is. Because Jesus saves in a moment and He does not waver. But I realize that such a conversion might be a superficial conversion.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Because I vacillate between thinking I am a Christian and thinking I am not a Christian, I sometimes post in “Struggles by Non-Christians” and sometimes post elsewhere, such as under “New Christians.”

One verse that at least used to screen out non-true believers is John 6:53, where Jesus says “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.” John 6:66 (wow!) says “From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.” I once heard a Christian speaker say that, here, Jesus “put the pedal to the metal” and left superficial believers in the dust. Modern day understanding realizes that Jesus was talking about the Lord’s Supper and so the statement is not as challenging to us as it was to them.

But there are one or more verses that are just as challenging today as ever. A key one is Galations 2:20: “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life that I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself for me.”

Certainly, at least at first glance, this verse screens me out of the kingdom of heaven. I do not want to be crucified; I want to still live and not have someone else take my place. This concept goes against my self-preservation instinct and my self-identity. Therefore, I am left in the dust.

There are other verses that relate, like Jesus’ statements that one must deny themselves, take up their cross, and follow Him. As I contemplate converting to Christ, I see that Jesus did not explicitly issue this same challenge to all people that He talked to. And the concept is not explicitly mentioned when the New Testament talks about some people’s conversions. For instance, Jesus said to the woman at the well, “If you knew the gift of God, and Who it is that says to you, ‘give Me a drink’, you would have asked Him and He would have given you living water.” More than once, including yesterday at church, I have explicitly asked Jesus for living water. And in other places, the NT simply says things like a person or group of people “believed.” For instance, in Acts, after Paul had preached to people in a particular city, it says, “as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.” Thinking of this verse, I have on one or more occasions asked the Lord that I be one of the people “appointed to eternal life.”

So, I am thinking that, possibly, one can have a real conversion while concentrating on such a not-as-challenging verse.

Also, because I have both wavering faith and OCD, I tend to be in the “perfect storm” of doubt. As to my wavering faith, I tend to try to sincerely turn to Christ at moments, saying “Take me!”, but then the next moment I figure my attention to and my faith in Him wavers away. Just today, I have begun wondering if such a wavering-faith conversion can be a real conversion, brief as it is. Because Jesus saves in a moment and He does not waver. But I realize that such a conversion might be a superficial conversion.

My understanding:

1)" Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.”

They walked with Him no more because their level of understanding wasn't deep enough to know that Jesus Christ of Nazareth was speaking about His union with those who " abide" in Him through His Holy Spirit. If one reads on, this image becomes clear.
" "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him."

2) I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life that I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself for me.”

This shouldn't be challenging because it is not a literal statement but a hyperbolic one. This is His Holy Spirit dwelling in the believer. This is the promise Jesus Christ of Nazareth gave us when He departed, sending back His Helper. Christ lives in the believer through His Holy Spirit

3) Struggles with conversion

All He asks of us is to believe and love Him with all our heart, soul and mind. He will then baptized us with His Holy Spirit who will guide us through the rest of our lives.

Be blessed.

 

[Delvianna]

In my opinion, most aren't taught what real faith looks like. Instead, we're taught the superficial version which is just "belief". Like, I "believe" this chair will hold me up and not fall. But James talks against this superficial belief when he says,

"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder." (James 2:19)

If you believe Jesus is the son of God, that's a great start but when scripture talks about saving faith, it is a verb which means it has action behind it. This is why Abahram was used as an example when offering to sacrifice his son Isaac.

"And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone." (James 2:23-24)

So with that in mind, re-read Galatians 2:20 - “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life that I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself for me.”

"Live" is a verb (literally, the word used is Zao, which is a verb) and Galatians is referring to how he lives. It's not an abstract concept of just God living in you and nothing happens. The Holy Spirit convicts, guides, and corrects but the point of the Holy Spirit is to keep us on the narrow path that we started on when we decided to follow Christ.

“From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.” John 6:66

Verb again. Follow him, literally. Faith is something we have to continually do and exercise. This is why Jesus talked about staying in the vine (Him) so you don't wither and die (John 15). Our salvation is based on a contract between us and God. It is a relationship and with any relationship, you have to be apart of it in order to gain its fruit. If you just stopped talking or hanging out with any of your friends, could you call them a friend? Since Jesus gives you life, it is only by HIM that your faith will be made stronger. So if you're wavering in either belief or action, the only way to make that stronger is to go to Him specifically, keep praying, ask for guidance, ask to hear his voice, continue to read his word so you are better learned in what he expects from you and always be ready and willing to do what he asks of you. Belief he is the son of God starts the journey, but it doesn't end there. You are entering into a relationship, and so that relationship needs to grow and strengthen and only God can do that.

And something that is a promise...

And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.- Jeremiah 29:13

Keep going

 

[eleos1954]

Because I vacillate between thinking I am a Christian and thinking I am not a Christian, I sometimes post in “Struggles by Non-Christians” and sometimes post elsewhere, such as under “New Christians.”

One verse that at least used to screen out non-true believers is John 6:53, where Jesus says “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.” John 6:66 (wow!) says “From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.” I once heard a Christian speaker say that, here, Jesus “put the pedal to the metal” and left superficial believers in the dust. Modern day understanding realizes that Jesus was talking about the Lord’s Supper and so the statement is not as challenging to us as it was to them.

But there are one or more verses that are just as challenging today as ever. A key one is Galations 2:20: “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life that I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself for me.”

Certainly, at least at first glance, this verse screens me out of the kingdom of heaven. I do not want to be crucified; I want to still live and not have someone else take my place. This concept goes against my self-preservation instinct and my self-identity. Therefore, I am left in the dust.

There are other verses that relate, like Jesus’ statements that one must deny themselves, take up their cross, and follow Him. As I contemplate converting to Christ, I see that Jesus did not explicitly issue this same challenge to all people that He talked to. And the concept is not explicitly mentioned when the New Testament talks about some people’s conversions. For instance, Jesus said to the woman at the well, “If you knew the gift of God, and Who it is that says to you, ‘give Me a drink’, you would have asked Him and He would have given you living water.” More than once, including yesterday at church, I have explicitly asked Jesus for living water. And in other places, the NT simply says things like a person or group of people “believed.” For instance, in Acts, after Paul had preached to people in a particular city, it says, “as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.” Thinking of this verse, I have on one or more occasions asked the Lord that I be one of the people “appointed to eternal life.”

So, I am thinking that, possibly, one can have a real conversion while concentrating on such a not-as-challenging verse.

Also, because I have both wavering faith and OCD, I tend to be in the “perfect storm” of doubt. As to my wavering faith, I tend to try to sincerely turn to Christ at moments, saying “Take me!”, but then the next moment I figure my attention to and my faith in Him wavers away. Just today, I have begun wondering if such a wavering-faith conversion can be a real conversion, brief as it is. Because Jesus saves in a moment and He does not waver. But I realize that such a conversion might be a superficial conversion.

John 6:53
Symbolic meaning: The act of "eating the flesh and drinking the blood" is not a physical act but a metaphorical one.
Spiritual sustenance: It represents a person's faith in Jesus Christ, a spiritual "eating" of His words and life.
Acceptance of sacrifice: It means believing that Jesus's flesh was given for the life of the world and his blood was shed for the forgiveness of sins.
Eternal life: By believing in and partaking of this spiritual food, a person can have eternal life.
Connection to the Lord's Supper: This verse is often understood in the context of the Lord's Supper, where the bread and wine are symbolic reminders of Christ's broken body and shed blood.

Interpret a passage literally unless that interpretation implies an impossibility or a contradiction with other clear scripture

Use some logical thinking to it ... the above statement was made during the last supper ... is one to believe that his blood was actually in the cup? No, of course not. Compare scripture with scripture.

Genesis 9:4 ESV​

But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

Leviticus 17:12 ESV​

Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood.

Many other verses in this regard.

 

[timewerx]

Modern day understanding realizes that Jesus was talking about the Lord’s Supper and so the statement is not as challenging to us as it was to them.

Modern day understanding is still flawed.

Jesus is not just talking about the "Lord's Supper" in John chapter 6.

His audiences complained they are "hard teaching" in John 6:60. Jesus did not object because they really are hard teaching.

Should a preacher spend a whole month preaching the real meaning of John chapter 6, I guarantee you, most of his audience would leave too and longer attend his church.

 

[d taylor]

-

​

There are none. Either a person has believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life or they have not.

All three of these soils will be in The Kingdom of God.

But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

 

[Bob8102]

-

​

There are none. Either a person has believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life or they have not.

All three of these soils will be in The Kingdom of God.

But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

Some people would agree with you that three out of the four soils make it into the kingdom of God. Others would say that only one soil makes it in: the "good ground."

 

[Bob8102]

Some people, upon first hearing the gospel, give their lives to Christ right away and “Ding!”: they’re a Christian. In a moment, and right away after hearing the gospel. For me, the gospel has presented a challenge that I have been wrangling with for over fifty years.

Delvianna’s post is quite pithy, especially:

“From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.” John 6:66

“Verb again. Follow him, literally. Faith is something we have to continually do and exercise. This is why Jesus talked about staying in the vine (Him) so you don't wither and die (John 15). Our salvation is based on a contract between us and God. It is a relationship and with any relationship, you have to be apart of it in order to gain its fruit. If you just stopped talking or hanging out with any of your friends, could you call them a friend? Since Jesus gives you life, it is only by HIM that your faith will be made stronger. So if you're wavering in either belief or action, the only way to make that stronger is to go to Him specifically, keep praying, ask for guidance, ask to hear his voice, continue to read his word so you are better learned in what he expects from you and always be ready and willing to do what he asks of you. Belief he is the son of God starts the journey, but it doesn't end there. You are entering into a relationship, and so that relationship needs to grow and strengthen and only God can do that.”

One thing I am re-learning or rethinking is: the Christian life and the Christian walk are IMPOSSIBLE without the Holy Spirit dwelling in you. You have to be crucified with Christ and that is no little matter.

I believe salvation occurs in a moment. But that is one incredible moment! To make that decision for real, one has to count the cost first, and become willing to “pay the price.” One has to be willing for self to be crucified.

To solve most problems, such as a flat tire or a plumbing leak, one gathers info about the problem first, then comes up with a plan of action to solve the problem. Then they work to solve the problem. Basically, all but one solvable problem can be solved while living for oneself, while having self on the throne. But the problem of lack of eternal life cannot be solved with self on the throne. You can gather information about the problem, but you cannot solve it with self on the throne.

I have figured that if I am going to hell, it is good to know that, so that I know there is a problem that has to be solved. I can gather information about the problem and its only solution, as I have been doing for fifty years. But the problem cannot be solved until I am willing to be crucified (figuratively speaking).

 

[Bob8102]

In just now thinking about what I just wrote, I came to a supposed willingness to be crucified, with Jesus' help. I looked up and prayed to Him sincerely. Ephesians 1:13 therefore says I have been sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise.

The above sentence means I am saved. But I've "been there" before, only to doubt again very shortly later.

 

[d taylor]

Some people would agree with you that three out of the four soils make it into the kingdom of God. Others would say that only one soil makes it in: the "good ground."

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Here is a little reading

How Context Helps (Mark 4:3) – Grace Evangelical Society

Impossible Interpretation of the Parable of the Four Soils – Grace Evangelical Society

The Parable of the Four Soils: Do the Middle Two Soils Represent Believers or Unbelievers? – Matthew 13:20-22 – Grace Evangelical Society

Free Grace Theology Is Really Important (Mark 4:13) – Grace Evangelical Society

Can People Move Forwards or Backwards in the Four Soils? – Grace Evangelical Society