The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

[HIM]

And yet you cannot post a verse where the fourth commandment was repeated into Jesus two love commandments and a post resurrection verse that requires the Christian to keep the 4th commandment. That’s all you need to prove your case so why can’t you post them?

Here it is again from Heb 4. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't

Key word there for those who don't know is ALSO. That means two things are being spoken of. Not in contrast, but separate. One is the rest which is the subject of Heb. 4. Which is called the Gospel in verse 2. And the second is ceasing from work as God did. The word "as" is another important word that many do not consider. This word dictates a direct comparison. With this understood we known verses 4 and 5 that this ceasing from work is the one God did on the Seventh day. So we who are partaking of the rest which is the Gospel also cease from our own works as God did on the seventh Day as was spoken in that certain place Mount Sinai when the Law was given

Your response below does not address the points given from the text. But as for answering it. The Sabbath Rest is defined as that which God partook of on the Seventh Day in verses 4 and 5 of the same letter. The commentary below in bold is not even implied in the text. Why add what is not?

If you want to continue to misunderstand the verse then go right ahead.

“Consequently, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

[there remains A sabbath rest. The word in this verse , σαββατισμὸς sabbatismos, "Sabbatism," is rendered "keeping of a Sabbath." It is a different word from σάββατον sabbaton - "the Sabbath;" and it occurs nowhere else in the New Testament. This is a shadow of the sabbath day not the sabbath day otherwise the writer of Hebrews would have used the common word for sabbath.]

For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[Here His rest is Jesus rest not God rest as in Gen.2. The verse says that those in Jesus “rest” rest of their work just as God did after creation. The comparison equals Jesus rest to God’s rest after creation]

Then we Have Jesus prophesying that His followers would be keeping the Sabbath up to and beyond the destruction of the Temple in AD 70. This is in Matt24:20

 

[HIM]

Saying all the rest of Christianly is in disobedience and rebellion against God and they alone are the loyal remnant is not defending themselves.

The SDA are not alone.

 

[Servus]

Deuteronomy 23:24 It is the verse before the one on grain. It is much the same thing.

Where does it say picking grain or fruit or vegetables is allowed on the sabbath? I've already shown where picking up manna was not allowed on the sabbath. It's very clear that food eaten on the sabbath, had to be obtained the day before according to the law.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[HIM]

Where does it say picking grain or fruit or vegetables is allowed on the sabbath? I've already shown where picking up manna was not allowed on the sabbath. It's very clear that food eaten on the sabbath, had to be obtained the day before according to the law.

Once again to say that it isn't okay is to say Jesus sinned. He who did no sin, the Lamb without spot.

No twisting a way around that.

And sadly you use Ex 16 to purport your idealogy. For one Jesus and the Disciples had no place to lay their head. They were not camping in tents as Israel.

 

[Jerry N.]

Saying all the rest of Christianly is in disobedience and rebellion against God and they alone are the loyal remnant is not defending themselves.

You should look at the threads defending Mary or the authority of the Roman Church or the ones about being once saved always saved or about the existence of hell. The Bible is a big and complicated group of books. We distill them into doctrines. Our faith is in Jesus and His saving work and the truth of the Bible, but our doctrines give us a frame of beliefs. We all want to please God, and we study, pray, and hope we are doing it correctly. Challenges to these things are challenges to the most important aspects of our Christian struggle here on earth. Disagreements go all the way back to the beginning as seen in the Book of Acts. Humans are designed to defend those things that a precious to us. It can get messy.

 

[Jerry N.]

Where does it say picking grain or fruit or vegetables is allowed on the sabbath? I've already shown where picking up manna was not allowed on the sabbath. It's very clear that food eaten on the sabbath, had to be obtained the day before according to the law.

Like I wrote, it is not considered harvesting if it is eaten in the same place. The Jewish traditions on the interpretation of these verses go way back to before the time of Jesus, and He obviously agreed with them or He was a sinner. If you think He was a sinner, you should put your faith somewhere else. (edit: I'm stopping here for the day.)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You should look at the threads defending Mary or the authority of the Roman Church or the ones about being once saved always saved or about the existence of hell. The Bible is a big and complicated group of books. We distill them into doctrines. Our faith is in Jesus and His saving work and the truth of the Bible, but our doctrines give us a frame of beliefs. We all want to please God, and we study, pray, and hope we are doing it correctly. Challenges to these things are challenges to the most important aspects of our Christian struggle here on earth. Disagreements go all the way back to the beginning as seen in the Book of Acts. Humans are designed to defend those things that a precious to us. It can get messy.

Yes, even Jesus said

Mat 10:34 Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. (word of God)

 

[Hentenza]

The “Letter of Barnabas” and the writings of Ignatius of Antioch, along with the writings of Origen and Clement, are not bogus, and they contain a lot of important information, but they are not Scripture. If they were, you would not believe in the Trinity. However, they are worth reading. There is also a bit of Gnosticism mixed in.

I was just trying to show that the early church worshipped on the Lord’s day and not on the sabbath. Also the claim that Constantine changed the day is not true.

The early church fathers fought Gnosticism not joined it. Quite a few of their writings are to refute Gnosticism. There is no gnostic teachings in their writings.

 

[Servus]

Like I wrote, it is not considered harvesting if it is eaten in the same place.

That doesn't make any sense because manna appeared right on their doorstep. Yet they were not allowed to get any on the sabbath.

The Jewish traditions on the interpretation of these verses go way back to before the time of Jesus, and He obviously agreed with them or He was a sinner. If you think He was a sinner, you should put your faith somewhere else. (edit: I'm stopping here for the day.)

He is God and Lord of the Sabbath. He had the right and authority to break His own Sabbath. It's just one more thing that shows he is the Messiah. How can anyone agree Paul had the authority to end the law of circumcision, but the Son of God had no authority over His Sabbath?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That doesn't make any sense because manna appeared right on their doorstep. Yet they were not allowed to get any on the sabbath.

He is God and Lord of the Sabbath. He had the right and authority to break His own Sabbath. It's just one more thing that shows he is the Messiah. How can anyone agree Paul had the authority to end the law of circumcision, but the Son of God had no authority over His Sabbath?

Jesus was not a sinner. He broke no commandments. He said so Himself John15:10 why do we not believe Him John8:46-47

 

[SabbathBlessings]

God always had a faithful remenant who kept His commandments,

Why this decree went out in 300AD for Christians to not keep the Sabbath, but they must work on the Sabbath- the exact opposite of what God said. Exo20:8-11

If no one was keeping the Sabbath, no need for this decree.

Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.
Notes.

Ancient Epitome of Canon XXIX.

A Christian shall not stop work on the Sabbath, but on the Lord's Day.

 

[Hentenza]

Here it is again from Heb 4. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't

I have gone through Heb. 3 and 4 verse by verse including the Greek translation nuances and am yet to see someone refute it. If you think you can then please go for it.

Your response below does not address the points given from the text. But as for answering it. The Sabbath Rest is defined as that which God partook of on the Seventh Day in verses 4 and 5 of the same letter. The commentary below in bold is not even implied in the text. Why add what is not?

Why stop at verses 4 and 5? Verse 6 adds quite a bit of clarity to what the previous two verses are saying.

Then we Have Jesus prophesying that His followers would be keeping the Sabbath up to and beyond the destruction of the Temple in AD 70. This is in Matt24:20

Really? Matthew was written between 55 to 65 ad before the temple was destroyed. But let’s look at who Matthew was warning in Matt.24:20.

“then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days! Moreover, pray that when you flee, it will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24‬:‭16‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 24:16-20 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But | New American Standard Bible -

then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But

bible.com

He is warning the Jews in Judea which are Jews so, of course, the warning about the tribulation happening on the Sabbath would be of concern to them. Please take verses in context.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I have gone through Heb. 3 and 4 verse by verse including the Greek translation nuances and am yet to see someone refute it. If you think you can then please go for it.


Why stop at verses 4 and 5? Verse 6 adds quite a bit of clarity to what the previous two verses are saying.

Really? Matthew was written between 55 to 65 ad before the temple was destroyed. But let’s look at who Matthew was warning in Matt.24:20.

“then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days! Moreover, pray that when you flee, it will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24‬:‭16‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 24:16-20 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But | New American Standard Bible -

then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But

bible.com

He is warning the Jews in Judea which are Jews so, of course, the warning about the tribulation happening on the Sabbath would be of concern to them. Please take verses in context.

Its a prophecy, no one at that time knew when the destruction of the temple would be destroyed. The fact remains that the Lord of the Sabbath did not destroy His own commandment at the Cross, but said His people would be keeping it decades after and for eternity hence why its sandwiched between two prophecies. The destruction of the earthy temple and His Second Coming.

 

[Hentenza]

God always had a faithful remenant who kept His commandments,

That is the remnant of Israel who will be saved at the end of the time if the gentiles. Are you an Israelite?

Why this decree went out in 300AD for Christians to not keep the Sabbath, but they must work on the Sabbath- the exact opposite of what God said. Exo20:8-11

No decree came out in 300ad regarding the sabbath since the early church was worshiping on the Lord’s day (resurrection day which is Sunday) since the beginning.

If no one was keeping the Sabbath, no need for this decree.

No decree that changed anything but a continuation of what had been happening since the beginning.

Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.
Notes.

Ancient Epitome of Canon XXIX.

And? Thus only served to warn the Jewish converts that Christians are not under the law just like in the first council.

 

[Hentenza]

Its a prophecy, no one at that time knew when the destruction of the temple would be destroyed. The fact remains that the Lord of the Sabbath did not destroy His own commandment at the Cross, but said His people would be keeping it decades after and for eternity hence why its sandwiched between two prophecies. The destruction of the earthy temple and His Second Coming.

This continues to fascinate me as you continue to make an argument out of emotion by using words like “destroy” to mischaracterize those arguing against you. Do you have some kind of sabbath keepers playbook that you are following?

No one here has made an argument that Jesus would “destroy” His own commandment at the cross. Again, and again, Jesus fulfilled the 4th commandment in His person as Lord of the Sabbath. Jesus can do that you know. He is God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

This continues to fascinate me as you continue to make an argument out of emotion by using words like “destroy” to mischaracterize those arguing against you. Do you have some kind of sabbath keepers playbook that you are following?

No one here has made an argument that Jesus would “destroy” His own commandment at the cross. Again, and again, Jesus fulfilled the 4th commandment in His person as Lord of the Sabbath. Jesus can do that you know. He is God.

Mat24:20 is Jesus speaking, not emotion. Its not an example of the 4th commandment is not included in His NC as it clearly states its will be kept by His faithful decades after the Cross, just as we see the apostles doing every Sabbath.

Fulfilled in Mat5:17 means to fill full like one would their wedding covenant, not the same as destroy or to end, why Jesus said whoever therefore breaks or teaches others to break the least of these commandments, and in doing so in teaching or action one would be least in heaven as it affects our status in heaven and the next verse says plainly means not there. Mat5:19-20

But believe and do as one wishes, God lets us carry out our free will. He will never force one to obey Him, it has to come from the heart.

 

[actionsub]

That doesn't make any sense because manna appeared right on their doorstep. Yet they were not allowed to get any on the sabbath.

He is God and Lord of the Sabbath. He had the right and authority to break His own Sabbath. It's just one more thing that shows he is the Messiah. How can anyone agree Paul had the authority to end the law of circumcision, but the Son of God had no authority over His Sabbath?

The whole thing about the manna is a bit more complicated, according to the passage in Exodus 16. The main thing to observe is that God kept his own rules in this instance.
The people were instructed to gather it daily because it would spoil overnight, except on the Sabbath eve when they were told to gather twice as much.
Those who didn't found that God did not provide manna ON the Sabbath. They couldn't gather it on the Sabbath because there was none to gather. However, manna that was gathered on the sixth day did not spoil overnight as it did the rest of the week.

 

[Hentenza]

Mat24:20 is Jesus speaking, not emotion. Its not an example of the 4th commandment is not included in His NC as it clearly states its will be kept by His faithful decades after the Cross, just as we see the apostles doing every Sabbath.

Matt24:20 is addressed to those in Judea which are Jews and still in the law. Read verse 16. Context is important.

Fulfilled in Mat5:17 means to fill full like one would their wedding covenant, not the same as destroy or to end, why Jesus said whoever therefore breaks or teaches others to break the least of these commandments, and in doing so in teaching or action one would be least in heaven as it affects our status in heaven and the next verse says plainly means not there. Mat5:19-20

No. Fulfill means completed. That is why Jesus died on the cross. All of the law was nailed to the cross.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Matt24:20 is addressed to those in Judea which are Jews and still in the law. Read verse 16. Context is important.

No. Fulfill means completed. That is why Jesus died on the cross. All of the law was nailed to the cross.

Jesus said to not break the least of these commandments as it affects our status in heaven, i.e. there or not Mat5:19-20. We were not even born when Jesus died at the Cross.

But if one wishes to brush off this warning by Jesus, He again gives us free will, However, I do not believe we can use the excuse at His second coming, I didn't know. Clearly the law was not nailed to the Cross, it guards the gates of heaven Rev22:14-15. Sin is what separated man from God Isa59:2 doing the same thing is not how we will be reconciled Mat7:21-23