Is there a Christian political philosophy?

[9Rock9]

So, I want to explore political philosophy and how it relates to Christianity.

Ideally, our faith should inform our politics, but not the other way around. Yet, this unfortunately not the case in reality. I don't intend to turn this into a finger pointing game between the left and the right, I just want to explore options here.

Should the government enact policies that reflect Christian policies?

One could argue yes, since a Christian government could provide a moral foundation for an otherwise secular society and arguably improves everyone's lives. On the other hand, one can say that the government would just bastardize Christianity and use it as a weapon for social control.

What about libertarianism? The Bible says to help the poor and needy. Yet, does that mean we should petition the government to do it, or is charity a personal responsibility for us as Christians, and thus we should not outsource it to the state?

Should there be a government? There are verses that seem to advocate for submitting to earthly authorities. Then again, many of these earthly authorities have, and sometimes still do, put innocent people to death. It can also be argued that the government has a monopoly on force and violence.

What are your thoughts?

I'm personally undecided, but that's why I made this thread. I want to see what others think to help me find out where I stand.

 

[PloverWing]

Christian teachings give us moral values, but it's reasonable for Christians to disagree about how best to implement those values in public policy.

An obvious example is that we are commanded to care for the poor. That's throughout the prophets and the teachings of Jesus, so I hope it's something we agree on, as Christians. But is it best for the government to do this, or churches, or nonprofit charities, or private individuals, or a combination? If the government should be involved, how? through what government policies or support organizations or tax laws or direct payments, etc.? Which policies are actually effective in helping people, and which sound good in theory but aren't effective in practice? All of that is political philosophy; it's about strategies and public policies through which to implement one's moral values, and those are things about which reasonable, faithful Christians can disagree.

Your warnings about force and control are important. Governments have been known to use religion as a means of power, and even faithful Christians who originally meant well can be tempted by power once they are elected to public office. I don't have a good answer here. I think we probably need government, to hold back the crimes that would result if we had anarchy, but wielding power over others is not the path that Jesus showed us.

 

[9Rock9]

Christian teachings give us moral values, but it's reasonable for Christians to disagree about how best to implement those values in public policy.

An obvious example is that we are commanded to care for the poor. That's throughout the prophets and the teachings of Jesus, so I hope it's something we agree on, as Christians. But is it best for the government to do this, or churches, or nonprofit charities, or private individuals, or a combination? If the government should be involved, how? through what government policies or support organizations or tax laws or direct payments, etc.? Which policies are actually effective in helping people, and which sound good in theory but aren't effective in practice? All of that is political philosophy; it's about strategies and public policies through which to implement one's moral values, and those are things about which reasonable, faithful Christians can disagree.

Your warnings about force and control are important. Governments have been known to use religion as a means of power, and even faithful Christians who originally meant well can be tempted by power once they are elected to public office. I don't have a good answer here. I think we probably need government, to hold back the crimes that would result if we had anarchy, but wielding power over others is not the path that Jesus showed us.

Would you say you are a minarchist?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

So, I want to explore political philosophy and how it relates to Christianity.

Ideally, our faith should inform our politics, but not the other way around. Yet, this unfortunately not the case in reality. I don't intend to turn this into a finger pointing game between the left and the right, I just want to explore options here.

Should the government enact policies that reflect Christian policies?

One could argue yes, since a Christian government could provide a moral foundation for an otherwise secular society and arguably improves everyone's lives. On the other hand, one can say that the government would just bastardize Christianity and use it as a weapon for social control.

What about libertarianism? The Bible says to help the poor and needy. Yet, does that mean we should petition the government to do it, or is charity a personal responsibility for us as Christians, and thus we should not outsource it to the state?

Should there be a government? There are verses that seem to advocate for submitting to earthly authorities. Then again, many of these earthly authorities have, and sometimes still do, put innocent people to death. It can also be argued that the government has a monopoly on force and violence.

What are your thoughts?

I'm personally undecided, but that's why I made this thread. I want to see what others think to help me find out where I stand.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth and His Gospel do not teach earthly governance because His Kingdom is not of this world. This decisively separates the Gospel—a message of salvation, spiritual transformation, and heavenly citizenship—from temporal political goals and nationalist movements. Jesus consistently refused to become an earthly king, resisted popular attempts to turn His ministry into a political revolt against Rome, and taught that His followers’ primary allegiance and focus must remain on the Kingdom of God, not on the kingdoms of men. Therefore, the core of Christ's teaching dictates a separation, meaning the Gospel should not be diluted or compromised by entanglement with human politics.
Blessings

 

[com7fy8]

So, I want to explore political philosophy and how it relates to Christianity.

A Christian in politics or lawmaking should submit to however Jesus guides the person.

Ideally, our faith should inform our politics, but not the other way around.

I would say so. And we need to submit to how Jesus informs and guides us, personally. And He is Lord of all, to judge, and to manage things the way He can; trust Jesus first, then, with anything > He is already ruling.

Yet, this unfortunately not the case in reality. I don't intend to turn this into a finger pointing game between the left and the right, I just want to explore options here.

It is not only "left" people and "right" people who are all alike in each group. In every group there are unique people.

Should the government enact policies that reflect Christian policies?

Yes. But I mean what is really Christian, not only self-righteous people trying to control others. I see how there can be ones favoring "Christian" things, but only so they can maintain the culture which has been around for some time, so their children won't get hit with some totally different political thing. But such ones are not going to be so caring about ones of other countries. And Jesus wants us to love others as ourselves, not favoring ourselves over others.

One could argue yes, since a Christian government could provide a moral foundation for an otherwise secular society and arguably improves everyone's lives.

Well, already > we have various items that are a match with Christian values. And easy example is, "do not murder". Of course, then we have conflict about what is included in murder . . . day-after embryos? older unborn children? convicted psychopaths?

Jesus says hate is murder. So, do we need a Christian a law that no one may fight in the armed forces unless the person does not hate whoever they will be killing in combat????

On the other hand, one can say that the government would just bastardize Christianity and use it as a weapon for social control.

Well, there are evil people who can use anything in a bad way. So, the fact that someone "could" use something the wrong way is not a reason not to have it. People can use food as a weapon and a means to control, but we still have food.

What about libertarianism?

The definition I read is that libertarianism means having minimal government involvement in people's lives. Well, Jesus in His government wants to rule all . . . at every moment, how we are guided personally by Him in His own peace. How can this be bad?

Christian libertarianism might mean minimal human government, then, so that we are free to be ruled better by Jesus, than how any human, including our own selves, can guide us.

The Bible says to help the poor and needy.

Yes, and in the earlier scriptures we see how God had humans taking care of ruling the people. And this included how resources were used to help the poor and needy. Tithe management is one example of this > Deuteronomy 14:22-29 shows how rules told the Jews to use their tithes for the tithers and for the widow and orphan and stranger and Levite.

And we might note how God's rules of government did affect various personal details of people's lives. The rules are not "minimal" in their involvement.

Also, in the New Testament we have >

"Do all things without complaining and disputing," (Philippians 2:14)

So, arguing and complaining are forbidden, according to Christian rules. So, if government were really Christian . . . . .

Yet, does that mean we should petition the government to do it, or is charity a personal responsibility for us as Christians, and thus we should not outsource it to the state?

I would say, do what works the best. Help people personally, and donate privately and pay taxes so others have the means to help people you can't reach. This is more or less how the Law of Moses had things set up. Plus, our Apostle Paul and ones laboring with him did hold collections so they could bring assistance to ones out of the reach of the givers; of course, this was done by Christians . . . not involving the Roman government!!

Should there be a government? There are verses that seem to advocate for submitting to earthly authorities. Then again, many of these earthly authorities have, and sometimes still do, put innocent people to death. It can also be argued that the government has a monopoly on force and violence.

Well . . . this world's rulers have some pretty dirty and dangerous people to deal with. I would not wish this job on a Christian. And yes, again, what can be good can be done in a bad way . . . therefore the killing of innocent people. But this does not automatically mean the death penalty is bad. The Law of Moses has various crimes that get the death penalty, including lying that you are a virgin in order to fool a guy into marrying you > yes > Deuteronomy 22:13-20.

What are your thoughts?

I have offered you a few

I'm personally undecided, but that's why I made this thread. I want to see what others think to help me find out where I stand.

I would not hurry, but take your time to learn. I would not hurry to be some one way or another along with others. Don't get caught up in some fad sort of a thing. I would offer that the best way you can help is to submit to God, use prayer, and be a good example. If you do whatever God has you do, God will use this, even what is in secret < His government now already is operating through Jesus, and He will make sure that whatever you do with Him will get His results > 1 Corinthians 15:58.

In Genesis 22:18, here is what the LORD says to Abraham, after he obeyed God >

"'In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.'" (Genesis 22:18)

One historical reason, then, why all nations have been blessed is because Abraham obeyed God, by doing what he did . . . in private. He has gotten "all" nations blessed, meaning he has gotten all-loving results . . . because He obeyed God who is all-loving. So, as well as we obey God who is all-loving, even our secret activities can get His all-loving results ! ! !

This is included in how Jesus Christ's government now works . . . already.

 

[Fervent]

This is a really deep question, and not one easily answered since there are so many unstated variables floating around. First is whether or not Christianity is about individuals or a corporate identity. Just to cut out a whole lot of background and jump straight to my opinion, Christians operate best as a nation within a nation. Not ignoring political power that is granted by virtue of being a citizen, but recognizing that "consent of the governed" is an unmaintainable falsehood as are the heavily individualistic commitments arising from the Enlightenment. Both the left and the right and every other conceivable political association contain condemnable aspects that will never be fully in line with the message of Christ, and are bound to oppose Christianity in one way or another. There's room for disagreement, especially since a robust political structuring is not spelled out in the Bible unless we are talking about the regulations given in the OT for Israel to operate under in order to maintain God's presence among them. We can only find the political ideologies of 21st century civilization by reading them into the text and ignoring conflicting data points.

 

[PloverWing]

Would you say you are a minarchist?

Liberal is probably a better label for me. However: 1) I'm also pragmatic, aware that not everything that sounds like it oughta work is effective in practice, and I'm prepared to adjust my theories to fit the data. And 2) I'm uncomfortably aware that government, even at its best, involves doing some evil to prevent greater evil, and it's hard to know what to do with that.

 

[linux.poet]

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct but to bad. Do you wish to have no fear of the authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive its approval, for it is God’s agent for your good. But if you do what is wrong, you should be afraid, for the authority does not bear the sword in vain! It is the agent of God to execute wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be subject, not only because of wrath but also because of conscience. For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s agents, busy with this very thing. Pay to all what is due them: taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.

Pretty sure that’s the Christian political philosophy, right there. Authorities, whether Christian or not, are tasked with the unenviable matter of containing and controlling sinful people so they do not unduly harm one another. Some of the regulations are based on the Decalogue, like the murder crimes still on the books in most developed nations, some based on practicality, and still others to benefit those in power. This is the nature of unbelievers ruling unbelievers. Unless they outlaw us, we should have no such difficulty, for we aspire to a higher standard of morality than the Decalogue, we should have no trouble with practicals to keep people alive, and person gain is not our motivation.

Philosophy, we have. But what I outlined is distinct from ideology, I.e. left and right. Those are idols that unbelievers worship. The left makes good points, and the right makes good points, and sometimes both are fools. True political wisdom involves asking good, hard, and thoughtful questions, not necessarily rushing to the answer like the left and right do. Unbelievers do not have the Holy Spirit and cannot follow the commands of Christ. We cannot impose our morality on them in the form of law. From this, we can derive 2 political principles:

1. Consider data and opinions from all sides of a debate, left, right, center, etc. Don’t get polarized and
2. Submit to and follow whatever government is there unless the Government wants us to violate Scripture. It doesn’t matter what side they are on or how much you disagree with their edict. Roll with the punches. Better yet, practice the art of the silent fist. Exhaust their fault finding abilities and evade their blows, causing them to run out of energy. Have your paperwork in order. Eventually they will learn that you are not worth their time.

 

[ChubbyCherub]

I stay out of politics in their entirety. That is my Christian political philosophy.

 

[Matt5]

As a Christian, should I feel good about myself when I vote to steal money from person A in order to give to person B?

You only get credit from God when you freely (and anonymously) give your own money to help others.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So, I want to explore political philosophy and how it relates to Christianity.

Ideally, our faith should inform our politics, but not the other way around. Yet, this unfortunately not the case in reality. I don't intend to turn this into a finger pointing game between the left and the right, I just want to explore options here.

Should the government enact policies that reflect Christian policies?

One could argue yes, since a Christian government could provide a moral foundation for an otherwise secular society and arguably improves everyone's lives. On the other hand, one can say that the government would just bastardize Christianity and use it as a weapon for social control.

What about libertarianism? The Bible says to help the poor and needy. Yet, does that mean we should petition the government to do it, or is charity a personal responsibility for us as Christians, and thus we should not outsource it to the state?

Should there be a government? There are verses that seem to advocate for submitting to earthly authorities. Then again, many of these earthly authorities have, and sometimes still do, put innocent people to death. It can also be argued that the government has a monopoly on force and violence.

What are your thoughts?

I'm personally undecided, but that's why I made this thread. I want to see what others think to help me find out where I stand.

For a mental exercise such as the one being prompted here, I find it easier for the sake of immediacy to cite those forms of government which should obviously be antithetical to the Christian faith. And then, once those are labeled and kicked to the side, a discussion for legitimate forms of government from a Christian perspective can be mulled over.

With this mind, two forms of social, political philosophy which I think should never be supported by Christians are: Communism or Anarchy.

The rest are up for debate, although it should go without saying that any form of government that ends up looking like a chapter from Aldous Huxley's novel, Brave New World, is off its rocker.

[2PhiloVoid then leans over and picks up his copy of 1984 and Philosophy: Is Resistance Futile?, and begins to flip through it for something to read.]

 

[stevevw]

So, I want to explore political philosophy and how it relates to Christianity.

Ideally, our faith should inform our politics, but not the other way around. Yet, this unfortunately not the case in reality. I don't intend to turn this into a finger pointing game between the left and the right, I just want to explore options here.

I think in some ways politics is designed for finger pointing. So I don't think there is any way around it. The political system is a world system that has to include all ideological beliefs.

A bit like the seperation of church and State where it use to be that the church was a seperate entity that gave comment or advice on matters pertaining to ethics. The church still held some respect and was seen as the arm of society that gave religious advice rather than political or scientific positions.

But over recent decades the political has become the personal. Or perhaps all dimensions of life have merged into one. Its hard to seperate religion or morality and politics. Even science has been politicised.

So really I think Christians and the church have to get back to the basics and be a seperate entity again. Not actually being one of the participants in the culture and political wars. But more a beacon of something different. Like the early church which really insulated itself from secular society and stood independently without any tainting from the world.

Should the government enact policies that reflect Christian policies?

We tried that and it failed. I don't think Christians are to create a world Kingdom on earth. Which is really what politics is all about. How we order society and the world. Which has to be open to all beliefs.

If anyone tried to push one religion, political ideology or any way of ordering society over others we would rightly say as a free and democratic society that this was wrong. God did not force the Isrealites or Christians to follow Him or make even evil nations conform. It was fundemental that people freely choose.

On the other hand I think there are certain truths or life principles that happen to align with Christian beliefs and values. Which I think are independent of any religion or political ideology. Which we can stand on and declare these are good and truthful. We sort of all know Gods laws and Christs truth anyway.

But I think when we start dividing into identity groups of Christians as opposed to political ideologies. Or opposing political ideologies or even opposing denominational disagreements. Its all about fighting over a world order and not Gods Kingdom.

Which is a completely different realm and one that is not contained within a political spectrum. But even spiritual that its truths and values lie beyond world politics that the world would not even understand and reject out of hand.

One could argue yes, since a Christian government could provide a moral foundation for an otherwise secular society and arguably improves everyone's lives. On the other hand, one can say that the government would just bastardize Christianity and use it as a weapon for social control.

Yes because it has to play by the rules of secular politics. Which is that no religion can be forced onto others. So by having to play by those rules it immediately undermines the true spirit of Christianity. Which does not operate by those rules.

In otherwords politics drags down Christianity into the world and compromises it as a matter of how the system is able to function. Theres no way around this. Otherwise you will be creating a theorcracy. Just like any dictatorship.

What about libertarianism? The Bible says to help the poor and needy. Yet, does that mean we should petition the government to do it, or is charity a personal responsibility for us as Christians, and thus we should not outsource it to the state?

Liberalism is a world ideology like feminism, socialism, conservativism, marxism, communism ect. These may appeal to values that align with Christainity. But have completely different ideological reasons and basis for achieving such nobel causes. The aim is to create a world Kingdom and not Gods Kingdom.

Should there be a government? There are verses that seem to advocate for submitting to earthly authorities. Then again, many of these earthly authorities have, and sometimes still do, put innocent people to death. It can also be argued that the government has a monopoly on force and violence.

Peter and Paul say as Christians we must obey earthly rulers as these are placed by God that people can be saved. This does not mean that all world rulers are Godly. But that the insitution of governments was primarily to have some order and idealy good governence such as law and order so that at least there is not mayhem.

Peter mentions that Christians should obey masters or rulers even if unjust. But to show a good example of being pure in behaviour. Not retaliating or engaging in culture wars and tit for tat politics. Just as the world does. But to be a good example that cannot be tarred with such things. That this in itself without any words is enough to expose evil and turn people towards God.

What are your thoughts?

I'm personally undecided, but that's why I made this thread. I want to see what others think to help me find out where I stand.

I have been wondering myself and have engaged in many a political discussion on different issues. I am coming to the realisation of the futility of trying to compete with world ideologies. In some ways its like arguing religious belief. Its subjective and not objective.

I don't think this is the Christian domain for which we can save the world and others. We don't have to be Christians to support and promote good principles like Rule of Law or Freedom of belief and politics. Or basic human rights. These are independent truths known to all regardless of religion. To then say well these are Christians policies would be silly.

So I think Christianity and its morals and belief in Gods Kingdom on earth as it is in heaven is not something that can be installed by politics or any world order. I think it needs to be seperate like a beacon on a hill that is not the same as the world and its politics. Where people see the example of Christ in action.

Not as a political movement. But just as Christ did. To bring about Gods KIngdom. For the disciples and early Christians which was to tell of this good news and to help the needy who have been hurt by this world in the hope that they too may be saved and see Gods love.

Which means despite the politics or world systems Christians remain the same. Often working behind the scenes, not seeking world recognition. Sacrificing self and world ambitions for helping others in rain, hail and shine.