Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

[Hentenza]

Hmmm... some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting contempt. But in your belief, they'd all have everlasting life, wouldn't they? In your beliefs, nobody ever actually dies, do they

Gee that inconvenient everlasting word.

 

[Jipsah]

Gee that inconvenient everlasting word.

Yeah, no dodging it. is there? Your lot believe that everybody has everlasting life no matter what, and it ain't necessarily a good thing. Right?

 

[Jipsah]

Emotional fallacy.

Yeah, you'd have us believe that eternal torment is just another part of the Love of God, right?

 

[Jipsah]

I guess getting a cohesive argument from you is out of the question. Bye

How about this for cohesion: if the Scripture says "death". ir probably means "death". If the Scripture says "die", it probably means "die". "Destroy" means "destroy". That, whether your rbubish doctrine says you should belive that ot not. Those who die in sin and without Christ die. If you don'r see that as suffient punishment, then perhaps it's more a matter of your own human viciousness than God's justice., I'm sorry, but if you believe that infinite torment evinces Divine Love, then your understanding of "love" twisted out of all recognition.

God Himself came, and suffered, and died, for His sinful creatures. He begged God, His Father, to have mercy on us, because we knew not what we did. But you believe that was all a sham, and that as soon as our Lord sat don at the right hand of His Father, He said, in effect, "OK, that stage is over, now it's time to start torturing the sinful scum who don't get with the program, forever. That'll teach 'em!" That's your teaching; that's your understanding of God.

I find it unutterably vile. God Humself came here.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

But your lot would have us believe that He's done with all that, and that now He's all about eternal torture of everyone who doesn't believe. Have any of you ever read the new Testament of our Lord Christ? It certainly doesn't sound like it.

That is, IMO, a shameful, monstrous corruption of what our Lord taught, and the mercy He paid for by His sacrifice on the cross.

Shame on you!

 

[Hentenza]

How about this for cohesion: if the Scripture says "death". ir probably means "death". If the Scripture says "die", it probably means "die". "Destroy" means "destroy". That, whether your rbubish doctrine says you should belive that ot not. Those who die in sin and without Christ die. If you don'r see that as suffient punishment, then perhaps it's more a matter of your own human viciousness than God's justice., I'm sorry, but if you believe that infinite torment evinces Divine Love, then your understanding of "love" twisted out of all recognition.

God Himself came, and suffered, and died, for His sinful creatures. He begged God, His Father, to have mercy on us, because we knew not what we did. But you believe that was all a sham, and that as soon as our Lord sat don at the right hand of His Father, He said, in effect, "OK, that stage is over, now it's time to start torturing the sinful scum who don't get with the program, forever. That'll teach 'em!" That's your teaching; that's your understanding of God.

I find it unutterably vile. God Humself came here.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

But your lot would have us believe that He's done with all that, and that now He's all about eternal torture of everyone who doesn't believe. Have any of you ever read the new Testament of our Lord Christ? It certainly doesn't sound like it.

That is, IMO, a shameful, monstrous corruption of what our Lord taught, and the mercy He paid for by His sacrifice on the cross.

Shame on you!

Yeah, no dodging it. is there? Your lot believe that everybody has everlasting life no matter what, and it ain't necessarily a good thing. Right?

Yeah, you'd have us believe that eternal torment is just another part of the Love of God, right?

How about this for cohesion: if the Scripture says "death". ir probably means "death". If the Scripture says "die", it probably means "die". "Destroy" means "destroy". That, whether your rbubish doctrine says you should belive that ot not. Those who die in sin and without Christ die. If you don'r see that as suffient punishment, then perhaps it's more a matter of your own human viciousness than God's justice., I'm sorry, but if you believe that infinite torment evinces Divine Love, then your understanding of "love" twisted out of all recognition.

God Himself came, and suffered, and died, for His sinful creatures. He begged God, His Father, to have mercy on us, because we knew not what we did. But you believe that was all a sham, and that as soon as our Lord sat don at the right hand of His Father, He said, in effect, "OK, that stage is over, now it's time to start torturing the sinful scum who don't get with the program, forever. That'll teach 'em!" That's your teaching; that's your understanding of God.

I find it unutterably vile. God Humself came here.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

But your lot would have us believe that He's done with all that, and that now He's all about eternal torture of everyone who doesn't believe. Have any of you ever read the new Testament of our Lord Christ? It certainly doesn't sound like it.

That is, IMO, a shameful, monstrous corruption of what our Lord taught, and the mercy He paid for by His sacrifice on the cross.

Shame on you!

From “The Epistle of Barnabas” (70-130AD)
The author of the Epistle of Barnabas is unknown, but many consider him to simply be who he said he was, Barnabas, the associate of Paul who is mentioned in the Book of Acts. The letter was written to new converts to Christianity:

The way of darkness is crooked, and it is full of cursing. It is the way of eternal death with punishment. (“Epistle of Barnabas”)

From Ignatius of Antioch (110AD)
Ignatius was a student of the Apostle John, and succeeded the Apostle Peter as the Bishop of Antioch. He wrote a number of important letters to believers in churches in the area:

Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death. how much more if a man corrupt by evil reaching the faith of God. for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire: and so will anyone who listens to him. (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1-2)

From Clement of Rome (150AD)
Clement was Bishop of Rome from 88 to 98AD, and his teaching reflects the early traditions of the Church. “Second Clement” reportedly a recorded sermon, and Clement discusses the nature of Hell:

If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment (“Second Clement” 5:5)

But when they see how those who have sinned and who have denied Jesus by their words or by their deeds are punished with terrible torture in unquenchable fire, the righteous, who have done good, and who have endured tortures and have hated the luxuries of life, will give glory to their God saying, ‘There shall be hope for him that has served God with all his heart!’ (“Second Clement” 17:7)

From “The Martyrdom of Polycarp” (155AD)
This work was written by an Early Church Father (unknown author) and is dated very early in the history of Christianity. It describes the death of Polycarp, a disciple of the Apostle John, and also describes early teachings of the church:

Fixing their minds on the grace of Christ, [the martyrs] despised worldly tortures and purchased eternal life with but a single hour. To them, the fire of their cruel torturers was cold. They kept before their eyes their escape from the eternal and unquenchable fire (“Martyrdom of Polycarp” 2:3)

From Tatian (160AD)
Tatian was an early Assyrian believer who moved to Rome as a pagan and eventually became a Christian. Interestingly, he read the Jewish Scriptures and from these became convinced that other pagan ideas about the world were simply false. He was a student of Justin Martyr and wrote about the unreasonableness of paganism and the truth of Christianity:

We who are now easily susceptible to death, will afterwards receive immortality with either enjoyment or with pain. (Ante-Nicene Fathers 1.71)

From Athenagoras of Athens (175AD)
Athenagoras was a philosopher and citizen of Athens who became a Christian (possibly from Platonism) and wrote two important apologetic works; “Apology” or “Embassy for the Christians”, and a “Treatise on the Resurrection”:

We are persuaded that when we are removed from the present life we will live another life, better than the present one…or, if they fall with the rest, they will endure a worse life, one in fire. For God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, who are mere by-products. For animals perish and are annihilated. On these grounds, it is not likely that we would wish to do evil. (“Apology”)

From Theophilus of Antioch (181AD)
Theophilus was the Patriarch of Antioch from 169 to 183AD. He was born a pagan and converted to Christianity after reading the scriptures. He was very zealous about protecting the orthodoxy of the earliest believers and he wrote a defense of the faith to a man named Autolycus:

Give studious attention to the prophetic writings [the Bible] and they will lead you on a clearer path to escape the eternal punishments and to obtain the eternal good things of God. . . . [God] will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortality by the patient exercise of good works, he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things. . . . For the unbelievers and for the contemptuous, and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity, when they have been involved in adulteries, and fornications, and homosexualities, and avarice, and in lawless idolatries, there will be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish; and in the end, such men as these will be detained in everlasting fire (“To Autolycus” 1:14)

From Irenaeus (189AD)
Irenaeus was bishop of Lugdunum in Gaul (now Lyon, France) at the end of the second century. He was a disciple of Polycarp and a notable early apologist for the faith. He wrote several volumes defending the faith against Gnosticism and other early heresies of the Church, and he often compared eternal punishment to eternal reward, drawing the conclusion that one endured as long as the other:

…Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven,, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess’ to Him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all; that He may send ‘spiritual wickednesses,’ and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, together with the ungodly, and unrighteous, and wicked, and profane among men, into everlasting fire; but may, in the exercise of His grace, confer immortality on the righteous, and holy, and those who have kept His commandments, and have persevered in His love, some from the beginning of their Christian course, and others from the date of their repentance, and may surround them with everlasting glory. (“Against Heresies” 1:10:10)

The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming. . . . t is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, ‘Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire,’ they will be damned forever (“Against Heresies” 4:28:2)

From Clement of Alexandria (195AD)
Titus Flavius Clemens was the first significant and recorded Christian from the church of Alexandria, Egypt. His parents were Greek and he was raised with a solid, formal Greek education. While he had a tendency to blend Greek and Christian philosophies, his view on the issue of Hell was derived from the scriptures:

All souls are immortal, even those of the wicked. Yet, it would be better for them if they were not deathless. For they are punished with the endless vengeance of quenchless fire. Since they do not die, it is impossible for them to have an end put to their misery. (from a post-Nicene manuscript fragment)

From Tertullian (197AD)
Quintus Septimius Florens Tertullianus was a Romanized African citizen who was born in Carthage (now Tunisia). He became a Christian and was a powerful and influential apologist for the faith, writing prolifically in defense of the doctrines of orthodoxy:

These have further set before us the proofs He has given of His majesty in judgments by floods and fires, the rules appointed by Him for securing His favor, as well as the retribution in store for the ignoring, forsaking and keeping them, as being about at the end of all to adjudge His worshippers to everlasting life, and the wicked to the doom of fire at once without ending and without break, raising up again all the dead from the beginning, reforming and renewing them with the object of awarding either recompense. (“Apology” 18:3)

Then will the entire race of men be restored to receive its just deserts according to what it has merited in this period of good and evil, and thereafter to have these paid out in an immeasurable and unending eternity. Then there will be neither death again nor resurrection again, but we shall be always the same as we are now, without changing. The worshipers of God shall always be with God, clothed in the proper substance of eternity. But the godless and those who have not turned wholly to God will be punished in fire equally unending, and they shall have from the very nature of this fire, divine as it were, a supply of incorruptibility (“Apology” 44:12–13)

Therefore after this there is neither death nor repeated resurrections, but we shall be the same that we are now, and still unchanged–the servants of God, ever with God, clothed upon with the proper substance of eternity; but the profane, and all who are not true worshippers of God, in like manner shall be consigned to the punishment of everlasting fire–that fire which, from its very nature indeed, directly ministers to their incorruptibility. (“Apology” 48:12)

These are just a few ECFs from the first and second century that teach eternal punishment. I’m sure you’ll find some detractors but this was the main teaching of the early church.

I am not going to insult you or demean you like you do me because I don’t consider that to be Christ-like behavior. The shame should actually be on you. Your opinion does not count as evidence and neither does your insults. If you want to prove your case then stick to evidence.

 

[Jipsah]

Your penchant for removing context from my post to satisfy your “sense of humor” and erroneous doctrine is quite disingenuous.

Disingenuous? Never been accused of that before. I'll have to ponder that one. And I don't generally have to chop your stuff up much to see some, probably unintentional, humor in it. Your stuff does tend to come off as pompous and preachy. And it doesn't help that you tend to try a little too hard to sound scholarly, generally not to good effect.

As for my "erroneous doctrine", you have yet to demonstrate that I have one. You've given your opinions, which I find generally ill-founded, and generally a little to obviously a recitation of whatever your doctrinal group teaches. I've sure that you hang on their every word, but most of us don't, at all. And FWIW, when you begin babbling about, "... but in Greek it says..." then you've just "left the envelope of controlled flight", and no good's gonna come of it.

Your conclusions are controversial

So? Whose aren't? You reckon everyone will mindlessly parrot your denom's beliefs? Dream on. I don't think your conclusions are controversial, I just think they're wrong, even if everyone but me thinks otherise. The "voice of the people" is not the voice of God.

and outside of orthodoxy.

nope, I say "amen" to every line in the ancient Creeds of the Church. Does your lot do the same? Or are there bits where y'all say , "No, we don't believe that".

No need to reply to your post since it is devoid of an argument.

None that can penetrate your sectarian programming, anyway.

Also, sect is synonymous with cult

Fair play, I won't use it again. Hereinafter I'll use "persuasion" instead.

and a pejorative to mainstream Christianity which is against the forum rules.

I'm not at all sure the beliefs those of your persuasion are representative of "mainstream Christianity" in any are other than the, to me, pernicious, idea that God has decreed that the vast majority of the human beings He has ever created must be tortured forever.

 

[Jipsah]

From “The Epistle of Barnabas” (70-130AD

The way of darkness is crooked, and it is full of cursing. It is the way of eternal death with punishment. (“Epistle of Barnabas”)

Yep, and being eternally dead is the punishment.

From Ignatius of Antioch (110AD)
evers in churches in the area:
Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death. how much more if a man corrupt by evil reaching the faith of God. for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire: and so will anyone who listens to him. (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1-2)

Yep. God can DESTROY both BODY and SOUL in hell. That's Scripture.

From Clement of Rome (150AD)

If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment (“Second Clement” 5:5)

Yep. Dead is forever.

But when they see how those who have sinned and who have denied Jesus by their words or by their deeds are punished with terrible torture in unquenchable fire

Oops, Clement forgot to add "forever".

From “The Martyrdom of Polycarp” (155AD)

Fixing their minds on the grace of Christ, [the martyrs] despised worldly tortures and purchased eternal life with but a single hour. To them, the fire of their cruel torturers was cold. They kept before their eyes their escape from the eternal and unquenchable fire (“Martyrdom of Polycarp” 2:3)

Yep, the fire is eternal.

From Tatian (160AD)

We who are now easily susceptible to death, will afterwards receive immortality with either enjoyment or with pain. (Ante-Nicene Fathers 1.71)

I think he was mistaken.

From Athenagoras of Athens (175AD)

We are persuaded that when we are removed from the present life we will live another life, better than the present one…or, if they fall with the rest, they will endure a worse life, one in fire.

Notice how the "everybody has eternal life for good ot ill" notion is creeping in over time?

From Theophilus of Antioch (181AD)
. [God] will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortality by the patient exercise of good works, he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things. . . . For the unbelievers... there will be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish; and in the end, such men as these will be detained in everlasting fire (“To Autolycus” 1:14)

Again, the fire is everlasting.

From Irenaeus (189AD)

…Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven,, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess’ to Him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all; that He may send ‘spiritual wickednesses,’ and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, together with the ungodly, and unrighteous, and wicked, and profane among men, into everlasting fire; but may, in the exercise of His grace, confer immortality on the righteous, and holy

And again, eternal life for the blessed, destruction in fire for the condemned.

From Clement of Alexandria (195AD)

All souls are immortal, even those of the wicked.

No Scriptural support for that belief, and tons that militate against it.

From Tertullian (197AD)

Your opinion does not count as evidence

Nor, amazingly enough, does yours.

and neither does your insults. If you want to prove your case then stick to evidence.

Go thou and do likewise.

 

[Hentenza]

Yep, and being eternally dead is the punishment.

Yep. God can DESTROY both BODY and SOUL in hell. That's Scripture.

Yep. Dead is forever.


Oops, Clement forgot to add "forever".

Yep, the fire is eternal.

I think he was mistaken.

Notice how the "everybody has eternal life for good ot ill" notion is creeping in over time?

Again, the fire is everlasting.

And again, eternal life for the blessed, destruction in fire for the condemned.

No Scriptural support for that belief, and tons that militate against it.

Nor, amazingly enough, does yours.

Go thou and do likewise.

I posted it and you dismissed it using your opinion so your post is unresponsive and irrelevant. No evidence from you yet.

 

[Jipsah]

I posted it and you dismissed it using your opinion so your post is unresponsive and irrelevant. No evidence from you yet.

In other words, you have no response. Noted.

 

[Hentenza]

In other words, you have no response. Noted.

See my post 525 and this time bring some evidence for discussion.

 

[walter45]

What are your thoughts? Doesn't everybody come from their own unique experiences and reasons for believing what they believe?

Mark 12:30-31

IMO Even if we believe differently than the other person, but we ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’ wouldn't that be a powerful and positive foundation for the world?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not sure what board to post this in. Please feel free to move to another area of the board if it works better there.

So, I saw a post today that interested me and searched it up and found lots of similar results from other people. Apparantly hell isn't a real place and instead is a mistranslation. Apparantly awful people don't get eternal suffering and instead just cease to exist (similar to how life was for them before being born)

Here's the full post and explanation. It was reassuring to hear this as I worry about peolle I know going to hell and hate to imagine them being tortured. So it's nice to know such a place doesn't exist


perhaps you could start by realizing just how ridiculous the entire idea is and how it really isn't even supported by the scriptures.

This concept of “Hell” as a place of ‘eternal suffering in a lake of fire’ that Christians so often try to scare people with is all made up by humans and doesn't even exist in the 'old testament' and is not well supported by the 'new testament' either...

every single 'old testament' reference to "hell" is a mistranslations of the Jewish concept of "Sheol" which is distinctly different from what most people today refer to as "Hell".

• 1: Sheol is temporary - not 'eternal'. you are only there until 'judgment day'.
• 2: everyone goes to Sheol to await judgment day. (good or bad, believer or not).
• 3: everyone in Sheol atones for their misdeeds in life. everyone, regardless of whether they "have faith" or not. You don't escape punishment for your misdeeds in life just because you 'have faith'. THAT was an invention (apparently of Paul).
• 4: after judgment: the 'truly wicked' are annihilated: They 'cease to exist'. They are not "punished for the rest of eternity. (That view is not supported by anything in the bible outside of 'revelation' (and even that is pretty thin)
• 5: after judgment: everyone else goes to "Olam Ha'Bah" (aka "the world to come"; "gan eden" or "the Garden of Eden). - This did NOT require belief in or worship of "YHWH" it was based on whether you were a decent person in life; not "blind faith".

outside of 'revelation" The "New Testament" does not refer to this concept of 'eternal punishment' at all. not once, not anywhere. It is ONLY mentioned in the "Book of Revelation" (aka "The Apocalypse of John") and even those references are pretty flimsy evidence.

every "New Testament" reference to "Hell" in modern translations are mistranslating one of three words. “Hades” (which means “the grave” and does not imply torment); "Tartarus" (which appears only one time in 2 Peter 2:4) and "Gehenna".

• Tartarus is a specific reference to the pagan concept of the 'lowest level of hades'; The word “Tartarus” is arguably the closest word used to this concept of eternal torment but this word is only used in one specific verse: 2 Peter 2:4 which is talking about a place where "fallen angels" are sent and is never mentioned as a destination for humans. - Also note that this same verse clearly limits the time spent in that place to "until judgment".
• Gehenna is an actual physical place in Jerusalem, it was (in the first century CE) possibly a trash dump, garbage we know dead bodies were taken there and burned in a 'eternal fire' (a constantly burning fire that was always burning garbage). it was considered a "cursed place" due to legends about people sacrificing children there. It was mentioned in a lot of parables; often 'jesus' talking about wealthy people ending up in Gehenna (just like all the poor people). essentially saying that all their wealth doesn't save them from eventually dying and being thrown into the trash heap. - The parables did seem to imply that “Gehenna” was some undesirable place but it’s very dishonest to claim that the word literally translates to the common concept called “Hell”.

The words translated into “Eternal Punishment” in Matthew 25:46 (for instance) is also a mistranslation. The word they translate as “eternal” there is “αἰώνῐος” which is more correctly translated as “lasting for an age”. If you note the same exact word is mistranslated to ‘eternal’ in modern translations of Jude 1:7 where Sodom and Gomorrah are supposedly destroyed by “eternal fire” - Those fires are clearly not burning today as we’ve never found any such remnants anywhere on earth of this supposedly never ending fire. The other part of that phrase for “Punishment” is also a poor translation of “kolasis” which was an agricultural term basically meaning “cut off” or “prune” - possibly suggesting the concept where you “prune away part of a plant and the rest of the plant gets stronger”. It could possibly refer to “punitive correction” as opposed to some eternal torment or possibly it refers to being ‘cut off from paradise/eternal life’ which is effectively what happens when you cease to exist. - you aren’t suffering but you are denied eternal life and entry to paradise ‘for eternity’ since you no longer exist.

Outside of Revelation the most common


Outside of Revelation the most common thing people tend to bring up to support this 'eternal suffering in a lake of fire' nonsense is the story from Luke 16:19-31 of "lazarus and rich man". That parable however does not suggest "eternal suffering" at all.

• 1: Abraham, Lazarus and "Rich Man" are all in the same place. - That already sounds a lot more like "Sheol" than "Hell". the claim that all of them talking to each other is clearly not a reference to one being "in heaven" and the other "in hell" since these places are always depicted as separate.
• 2: "Rich Man" is suffering but... he's complaining about "being thirsty".... if he were burning in a lake of fire I think he'd have bigger problems than 'parched lips'.
• 3: Nothing about that story says anything to suggest that the suffering is eternal; it only implies that "Rich Man" is suffering currently, not what his fate would be down the road.

Then we have the claims from "Revelation":

• 1: the "Second Death" is mentioned 4 times in this book; and described as the "Death of the soul"
• 2: Revelation 20:6 states that only people named in the "book of life" (those "on the right") receive "eternal life" - this gift of eternal life is ONLY for the righteous people that pass into paradise.
• 3: Revelation 20:10 states that the 'beast', the 'false prophet' (aka the antichrist) and 'satan' are cast into the lake of fire where they will "suffer for ever and ever" - note that none of these entities are 'human'.
• 4: then in Revelation 20:15 - the people who's name did not appear in the 'book of life' (those "on the left") are also cast into the same lake of fire where they "suffer the second death". - Note the different language... it does not say "suffer for ever and ever" but instead states that they "suffer the second death" - this suggests that their soul dies.. which is "Annihilation" not "eternal suffering". How can there be "eternal suffering" for people that do not have "eternal life"? - (see note 2 above).

Nothing about "eternal suffering" is consistent with anything in the bible. "Eternal suffering" is sadistic cruelty without any purpose or benefit. - It makes no rational sense if they are also trying to claim that 'god' is benevolent, loving, merciful etc. - Totally logically inconsistent with this view.





In the early days of the christian church there were several competing views of the afterlife that are a lot more consistent with the rest of the bible:

• Annihilation" is the belief that "after judgment" the "truly wicked" are annihilated; they 'cease to exist' and that's it... no further suffering; they are gone. end of story. This is exactly what the Jewish traditional view of Sheol mentioned above taught and is logically consistent with the 'old testament'.
• "universal salvation" or "universalism" is the belief that eventually everyone is saved. - This view treats suffering/punishment in the afterlife as reformative/corrective/judicial - meant to correct the recipient and is finite in duration - once you have atoned for your sins you get to move on to paradise with all the other people that ever lived. These were both pretty popular views in the early christian sects prior to ~425 CE;

The early christian sects disagreed considerably about which of these three views was 'correct'. “Basil the Great” specifically commented in ~370CE that the dominant view (of the time) was a belief in a limited purgatory, and others (such as Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Gregory of Nyssa, Didymus the blind, Diodore of Tarsus and Theodore of Mopsuestia wrote extensively about Universalism. There were some (mostly in Northern Africa around the coast of modern day Tunisia/Algeria) that were advocating the view of “Eternal Torment” but it wasn't until 425CE that the church unified on this 'eternal suffering' doctrine (largely through the writings of Augustine of Hippo – who came to Rome from a city near what is now Annaba Tunisia). This became the official version the church went with and the other views were deemed "heretical" and banned along with any early christian scriptures that supported those opposing views (such as the "Apocalypse of Peter").

Why didn’t you quote any of the passages that do actually support eternal punishment?

“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25‬:‭46‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell, [where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.] If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭9‬:‭45‬-‭48‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1‬:‭8‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.””
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14‬:‭10‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20‬:‭10‬-‭15‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So there is scriptural evidence to support eternal torment. However evidence isn’t necessarily proof and annihilation could be considered an eternal punishment because there’s no coming back from it. As far as your definition of the Greek word aionios that word is used to describe things that are in fact eternal and never ending. Like for example God’s reign, His glory, His kingdom, even God Himself, also the life, redemption, salvation, and inheritance that we receive in Christ. None of these are temporal and yet the word aionios is used to describe them.

As far as Sheol, it’s actually divided into two separate places. Abraham’s Bosom is the place for the righteous, and Hades is the place for the wicked where they do suffer in torment until judgment day when they will be judged then thrown into the lake of fire. So yeah Sheol is temporary, but once the wicked are taken out of Sheol that’s not the end of their punishment. They will either suffer eternal torment in the lake of fire or annihilation, they will not receive eternal life and enter into God’s kingdom. So hell is a real place according to the Bible, hell is just a word invented to refer to the place of punishment for the wicked. And yes Jesus used the word Gehenna but He used Gehenna as an illustration of what would take place after judgement. He wasn’t telling people that their soul would literally be destroyed in the place outside of Jerusalem where garbage and dead bodies were burned.

 

[Hentenza]

What are your thoughts? Doesn't everybody come from their own unique experiences and reasons for believing what they believe?

Mark 12:30-31

IMO Even if we believe differently than the other person, but we ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’ wouldn't that be a powerful and positive foundation for the world?

Yep. I’m all for keeping Jesus commandments. But, like siblings, we have differences of opinion and will argue over it. I always hope and pray that we all love each others as followers of Christ because what we are discussing here is not part of the salvation formula. Whether one believes in hell, annihilation, or UR salvation is by faith alone in Jesus.