So.....did your insurance premium go up?

[Desk trauma]

The increase will clearly be covered by payments from the pharmaceutical companies to their customers for using their products whose prices have been reduced by 1,000%.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Know someone, an American retiree, who had a leg wound that quickly went bad. After a nurse happened to see it, he was in a specialist's office the next day, and surgery the next or the day after.

Three times my father, a farmer and blue-collar worker, was found with a life-threatening condition, and each time he had specialist help right then or the day after.

My serious question for those who are on health care in other countries: How long would the retiree I know and my father would have had to wait to see a specialist?

For life threatening conditions, you'd be seen in similar timeframes. E.g. I know of someone who went for tests via their GP, the results came back indicating cancer, and they were told "drop everything, you're going to hospital" - and were booked in for surgery within a few days. If you walked into a GP office or ER with an infected would, you'd be in hospital pretty quick.

It's certainly not perfect - waiting lists are a thing for chronic but not life-threatening conditions. Mostly things like knee replacements and such. A friend of mine had a benign tumor which wasn't dangerous and not painful - just uncomfortable - so he was pretty much at the absolute bottom of the waiting list and it took several months (from memory) for surgery to have it removed.

In Australia you can always choose to have private health insurance on top of Medicare (which is what I do), which resolves the waiting list problem and allows you to choose your specialist, which hospital you go to, and basically get in whenever you want. The cost is quite reasonable - maybe $3k-4k for a family depending on what's covered. Private hospitals mostly deal with non-emergency surgery, while emergency and non-insurance patients go to public hospitals.

 

[Stopped_lurking]

Know someone, an American retiree, who had a leg wound that quickly went bad. After a nurse happened to see it, he was in a specialist's office the next day, and surgery the next or the day after.

Swede here. Non-acute injuries get a medical assessment by a nurse the same day over the phone at my primary care provider. If they believe you need urgent primary care they have physicians appointments the same day. If they are uncertain you will get sent to the emergency room.

You can go to the emergency room directly if you want, you will meet a triage nurse or doctor there. All gets care, but it may be a long wait if you go there for a bruise.

Three times my father, a farmer and blue-collar worker, was found with a life-threatening condition, and each time he had specialist help right then or the day after.

Same day treatment (directly) for life threatening conditions. I had a heart attack at 0700, at lunch I had 4 stents in place.

My serious question for those who are on health care in other countries: How long would the retiree I know and my father would have had to wait to see a specialist?

For none life-threatening issues there is a law that requires access to a specialist within 90 days. But you will get health care from your primary care provider in the meantime.

But both of your examples sounds like they would have gotten same day care, sepsis is considered a life threatening issue.

 

[Nithavela]

Know someone, an American retiree, who had a leg wound that quickly went bad. After a nurse happened to see it, he was in a specialist's office the next day, and surgery the next or the day after.

Three times my father, a farmer and blue-collar worker, was found with a life-threatening condition, and each time he had specialist help right then or the day after.

My serious question for those who are on health care in other countries: How long would the retiree I know and my father would have had to wait to see a specialist?

Over here in germany, probably similiarly. Life-threatening issues are triaged to be adressed immediately.

What, you imagine they leave people dying in the hallway?

 

[Larniavc]

Why Americans don't riot over healthcare costs is beyond my reasoning.

It’s because they don’t know any different. They’ve been feed the dog eat dog American dream is a natural law that cannot change.

That coupled with the ‘screw you I got mine’ and the ability to look down on at least someone they dislike keeps them from rioting.

 

[Larniavc]

Know someone, an American retiree, who had a leg wound that quickly went bad. After a nurse happened to see it, he was in a specialist's office the next day, and surgery the next or the day after.

Three times my father, a farmer and blue-collar worker, was found with a life-threatening condition, and each time he had specialist help right then or the day after.

My serious question for those who are on health care in other countries: How long would the retiree I know and my father would have had to wait to see a specialist?

About the same. But were that man a younger man of poor means what would be the timeframe then?

 

[Larniavc]

Yup. Foolish things like food and housing

Poor life choices? Lack of bootstrapping?

 

[MarkSB]

Yup. Foolish things like food and housing

Yeah. Whatever you need to tell yourself.

 

[Tuur]

About the same. But were that man a younger man of poor means what would be the timeframe then?

You may not realize that, but that's a compliment. The retiree used to work for a delivery company. My father was a farmer and had done some blue collar work. Neither one met the definition of "well off." For that matter, I don't either. Was a much younger man when I rode an ambulance to a hospital after a serious accident, and they started work on me without so much as asking for my insurance card. I didn't use that as an example, because I assume (and hope) someone in another country who experienced the same accident would receive the same care.

The retiree was in serious risk of loosing his leg. My father was, three time, on the edge of death. First time was serious heart blockage. Second was stomach hemorrhage. Third was a rare blood condition that had him at death's door before anyone realized it. And, as I said, he was a farmer and had done blue collar work.

As I said, my question is serious. Would someone with a leg wound like the retiree had, who lived in another country, been able to see a specialist the day after a nurse recognized the serious of the situation? Or would he be put on a waiting list and sent home, possibly ending up having his leg amputated? My father, when his heart condition came to light without so much as the first visible symptom, would he have been admitted to a hospital that very day and seen a specialist the next, or would have have been on a waiting list? Would his stomach bleeding have been treated as quickly elsewhere? Would his blood condition been treated at all? given he was in his eighties, that's a very real question.

As I said, it's a serious question. I haven't lived in another country, so I don't know how it compares. I do know I have a expatriate cousin who, on doctor's orders, returned to the US for surgery for a condition and stayed here while he recuperated. What I don't know is if he had to be on a waiting list before seeing the doctor, or the reason why the doctor thought he could get better care for his condition in the US.

I'm not making an argument here. I sincerely want to know.

 

[Tuur]

Over here in germany, probably similiarly. Life-threatening issues are triaged to be adressed immediately.

What, you imagine they leave people dying in the hallway?

Having seen someone die in a doctor's office (and didn't realize it at the time), I've seen close to exactly that. Have also seen situations where hospitals were so full that yes, there were people waiting in the halls for a room or transport to another facility. The latter was for...well, pandemic doesn't cover it, but it was regional outbreak of illness, from influenza to rotavirus. My question is a serious one. Have heard of people in other countries put on waiting lists for procedures that are done more quickly in the US, and wondered if that applied in those instances.

 

[Nithavela]

Having seen someone die in a doctor's office (and didn't realize it at the time), I've seen close to exactly that. Have also seen situations where hospitals were so full that yes, there were people waiting in the halls for a room or transport to another facility. The latter was for...well, pandemic doesn't cover it, but it was regional outbreak of illness, from influenza to rotavirus. My question is a serious one. Have heard of people in other countries put on waiting lists for procedures that are done more quickly in the US, and wondered if that applied in those instances.

You got your answer. I'm sure you can find anecdotal evidence to the contrary, just like I could find anecdotes of people in the USA having to wait an undue time.

 

[Tuur]

But both of your examples sounds like they would have gotten same day care, sepsis is considered a life threatening issue.

Thank you. Was just wondering.

 

[Tuur]

You got your answer. I'm sure you can find anecdotal evidence to the contrary, just like I could find anecdotes of people in the USA having to wait an undue time.

Yes, I got my answer. I'm sorry if that question offended you, but if it did, there's nothing I can do about that.

 

[Nithavela]

Yes, I got my answer. I'm sorry if that question offended you, but if it did, there's nothing I can do about that.

Pretending that someone is offended when they disagree with you certainly is a way to attempt to discredit someone.

 

[Tuur]

Pretending that someone is offended when they disagree with you certainly is a way to attempt to discredit someone.

Shrug., Whatever.

 

[Nithavela]

Shrug., Whatever.

Harumph to you too, good sir.

 

[bèlla]

That coupled with the ‘screw you I got mine’ and the ability to look down on at least someone they dislike keeps them from rioting.

It’s less about screw you than the fact it doesn’t come to mind. The majority are focused on their circumstances and everyone isn’t forthcoming about their finances. It isn’t uncommon for a person to keep problems to themselves and that was the norm for a while.

~bella

 

[MarkSB]

Having seen someone die in a doctor's office (and didn't realize it at the time), I've seen close to exactly that. Have also seen situations where hospitals were so full that yes, there were people waiting in the halls for a room or transport to another facility. The latter was for...well, pandemic doesn't cover it, but it was regional outbreak of illness, from influenza to rotavirus. My question is a serious one. Have heard of people in other countries put on waiting lists for procedures that are done more quickly in the US, and wondered if that applied in those instances.

I don't think being put on waiting lists is uncommon in the U.S. I've heard of people being put on waiting lists for lung cancer surgery. I myself had to wait weeks to get screened for a lump which could have been cancerous, and the same for my wife.

It would be interesting to see some data put behind the claim that socialized medicine increases wait times and decreases quality. That's a common claim of the Republican party, yet I've never seen any evidence to back that up.

And to be clear, I'm on the fence about socialized medicine, and honestly I like the mixed system that we have - but that's more likely due to familiarity, and (perhaps unfounded) fears of runaway tax increases. We should probably find a way to pay for the "entitlement" programs (for lack of a better word) that we do have before we start adding more.

 

[MarkSB]

Yup. Foolish things like food and housing

Because my first response wasn't very constructive and was more contentious than I would have liked (something I try to avoid... but hey, I'm human):

If you're contending that cutting social welfare programs was used to pay for tax cuts - so those tax cuts could then go toward things like "food and housing" - the Trump tax cuts are not paid for. The "One Big Beautiful Bill" is projected to add $4 trillion to the national debt over the next 10 years.

In addition, any tax cuts which are received by households will be easily offset by the cost of Trump's tariffs. Tariffs are expected to cost $2,300-$3,800 annually for the average household, while the tax cuts will benefit middle income earners by $500-$1,000 per year. That's a net loss for those in the low to middle income brackets. If you factor in the cuts to social welfare programs, those in the lower income brackets are even more significantly impacted. Meanwhile, high earners will see a significant benefit. If you're interested, you can read a CBO report which contains some of that data here.

Republicans love to claim fiscal responsibility while doing the opposite. Cutting social welfare programs while spending the money elsewhere doesn't make you fiscally responsible.

That's not to say that Democrats are fiscally responsible either, but I'm of the mind that we need to hold all of our politicians accountable when they try selling us nonsense - Democrats and Republicans alike.

Edited to add - because a picture is worth a thousand words:

 

[Always in His Presence]

If you're contending that cutting social welfare programs was used to pay for tax cuts

I didn't say anything about tax cuts - frankly have no clue how you even got that idea.

My point is that before the Unaffordable Care Act caused premiums to rise 105% and completely eliminated health care plans for hundreds of thousands of Americans (of which I was one) that were working for us. Then fining us $3,000.00 a year for not having the coverage we could no longer afford was draconian and authoritarian in scope.

At the time I had five of six children living at home - when my health insurance DOUBLED, there was little room left for the necessities of life, so I dropped the coverage and went with a cash plan my primary care provider had. Then I get hit with a $3,000 penalty for not subscribing to a health insurance plan that was double the cost of my previous one.

Thank God he stopped the $3,000.00 penalty.