Why Does the Bible Tell Us to Behave In Ways We Can’t? How Can Anyone Be Saved?

[Abraham1st]

Yes it is.

Holiness comes from GOD, not anything else. We don't create it ourselves.

You are forgetting the important direction of this chapter in Hebrews 12, it begins to instruct us how to not be weighed down by sin, (faithlessness) and to then run the race before us (in faith) with patience, and we do that BY LOOKNG TO JESUS who is the AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF OUR FAITH.

Jesus for the joy set before Him, endured the cross, the shame, and endured such contradiction of sinners, and we are to CONSIDER HIM, or we will be wearied in our mind, and then we have not strove against sin, and have forgotten the EXHORTATION, speaking to us as children, to not despise the chastening of the Lord.

Look then at the verse we are reminded of, how Jesus was wounded and bruised ( JESUS WAS CHASTENED AND SCOURGED OF GOD.) for our transgressions, THE CHASTISEMENT OF OUR PEACE was upon Hi, with HIs stripes ( HIS CHASTISEMENT) we are HEALED. (HOLY.)



Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

 

[Abraham1st]

If you are having a discussion on general theology, don't you want theology, don't you want to better understand what the discussion is about, or everyone prefers to dig in and stick like glue to their on preferred understanding, rather than let it be understood together.

Try to be open with a heart of flesh, a strong faith, not a stubborn heart and faith in what we believe things to be.

 

[ARBITER01]

You are forgetting the important direction of this chapter in Hebrews 12, it begins to instruct us how to not be weighed down by sin, (faithlessness) and to then run the race before us (in faith) with patience, and we do that BY LOOKNG TO JESUS who is the AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF OUR FAITH.

Jesus for the joy set before Him, endured the cross, the shame, and endured such contradiction of sinners, and we are to CONSIDER HIM, or we will be wearied in our mind, and then we have not strove against sin, and have forgotten the EXHORTATION, speaking to us as children, to not despise the chastening of the Lord.

Look then at the verse we are reminded of, how Jesus was wounded and bruised ( JESUS WAS CHASTENED AND SCOURGED OF GOD.) for our transgressions, THE CHASTISEMENT OF OUR PEACE was upon Hi, with HIs stripes ( HIS CHASTISEMENT) we are HEALED. (HOLY.)



Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

A man with experience is never at the mercy of one with an opinion.

I plan on spending a few hours in worship with GOD tonight and feeling HIS holiness cleanse me prior to going to church tomorrow. Your "biblical" opinions are not currently on my lists of concerns.

 

[Abraham1st]

A man with experience is never at the mercy of one with an opinion.

I plan on spending a few hours in worship with GOD tonight and feeling HIS holiness cleanse me prior to going to church tomorrow. Your "biblical" opinions are not currently on my lists of concerns.

Others can mind what I had just reminded us all of, or not be concerned about also.


2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

 

[Abraham1st]

As for our own ways, here are two thoughts on that:



John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

Matthew 22:10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.





As for those with experience who will no longer receive correction...




Ecclesiastes 4:13 Better is a poor and a wise child than an old and foolish king, who will no more be admonished.

Proverbs 10:8 The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall.

Proverbs 13:1 A wise son heareth his father's instruction: but a scorner heareth not rebuke.

 

[Abraham1st]

NBB fervent and ARBITER01 all seem to support each other, putting support signals on one another's answers, while having nothing to answer back in the thread, about why they reject/want nothing of the scriptures that were shared, in the topic they are giving their opinions in.

I guess that shows they are with experience alright, of that all along.

​

 

[Fervent]

The word means what it says, not what we interpret.

This is a meaningless statement. There's no avoiding interpreting what we read, so to insist that one's personal reading is authoritative is nothing more than an attempt to browbeat and can be summarily ignored.

 

[Abraham1st]

This is a meaningless statement. and can be summarily ignored.

OK

 

[Abraham1st]

Now, is there no sincerity in this thread, on this whole Christian forum, to have even one line by anyone at all, to be against the thread title, to behave in all the ways God can get us to do, to do abundantly above what we ask for in faith and to be even as we are all supposed to be, if not OK.


Ephesians 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,



THE LORDS HOLY APOSTLES WERE GIVEN FOR THIS...



Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 TILL WE ALL COME IN THE UNITY OF THE FAITH, and of the KNOWLEDGE OF THE SON OF GOD, unto A PERFECT MAN, UNTO THE MEASURE OF THE STATURE OF THE FULNESS OF CHRIST:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

 

[ARBITER01]

This is a meaningless statement. There's no avoiding interpreting what we read, so to insist that one's personal reading is authoritative is nothing more than an attempt to browbeat and can be summarily ignored.

I think you, I, and others here would rather seek understanding and teaching from The Holy Spirit. We tend to have some agreement between ourselves, as well as some fellowship.

 

[Fervent]

I think you, I, and others here would rather seek understanding and teaching from The Holy Spirit. We tend to have some agreement between ourselves, as well as some fellowship.

Yeah, I think it begins with humility since seeking understanding requires we first admit that we know nothing and cannot get to the truth on our own. In other words, we must be teachable and not just insist on being teachers. And when teaching is called for, doing so with gentleness and not insisting on our own authority or elevating our understanding to God's revelation.

 

[Abraham1st]

Sounds like the same person talking to themselves.


The Holy Spirit are the words that Jesus spoke and what all the Apostles of the Lord wrote for us.

It is that Word that judges us in the last day, what was spoken to us all in all of the world.

There is no reason left to turn away from the scriptures, and label it as not a gentle approach, and rejecting the scriptures shared because of saying we cannot know what they mean. That makes no sense or honesty, because of being judged by the same Word spoken, so we have to be able to understand the meaning, and it is not difficult to understand either, all is exampled and ensample and as exampled by the Lords Holy Apostles.



Philippians 3:15 Let us therefore, AS MANY AS BE PERFECT, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
17 Brethren, BE FOLLOWERS TOGETHER OF ME, AND MARK THEM WHICH WALK SO AS YE HAVE US FOR AN ENSAMPLE.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the ENEMIESS OF THE CROSSS OF CHRIST:
19 Whose end is destruction, WHOSE GOD IS THEIR BELLY, and WHOSE GLORY IS THEIR SHAME, who MIND EARTHLY THINGS.)




Also if we heed the warnings in the scriptures, GOOD WORDS AND FAIR SPEECHES ARE ANOTHER SIGN OF THE ENEMY AT WORK.....



Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and BY GOOD WORDS AND FAIR SPEECHES DECEIVE THE HEARTS OF THE SIMPLE.
19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and SIMPLE CONCERNING EVIL.
20 And THE GOD OF PEACE SHALL BRUISE SATAN UNDER YOUR FEET SHORTLY. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Scripture does not teach us what you just said.

Yes, it does as I will demonstrate as we move through your post.

Scripture first begins with a witness from Christ, that the men of Israel are of their father the devil and that they will do the lusts (SINS) of their father, that their father who they are of, ABIDES NOT IN THE TRUTH, because there is NO TRUTH IN HIM. He speaks his own which is a LIE, for he is a LIAR, and the FATHER OF IT.

The first issue is who is Christ refering to. You mistakenly say that it is the men of Isreal. Verse 13 identifies to whom Jesus is refering. 13 The Pharisees challenged him, “Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid.”

So as you can see it was not the men of Isreal, it was the pharasees who were opposing him.

Jesus witnesses this to the men of Israel, BECAUSE HE TELLS THEM THE TRUTH, they DO NOT BELIEVE HIM.

That he that is of God, HEARS GODS WORDS, they THEREFORE hear them NOT, because they are NOT OF GOD.

One can here God and still struggle with the flesh and sin. In fact you are a liar if you claim to be without sin. 1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

John 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

I have yet to see how you are even addressing what I posted let alone rebutting it.

Jesus tells His apostles when the SPIRIT OF TRUTH is come, He will guide them INTO ALL TRUTH, as He will not speak of Himself, but whatsoever He shall hear.

If anyone says they have no sin, they DECEIVE THEMSELVES, and the TRUTH IS NOT IN THEM. (A LIE IS IN THEM.)

Then those SAME ONES who say they know Jesus (WHO IS THE TRUTH IN US.) and do not keep HIs commandments are a LIAR. (OF THEIR FATHER THE DEVIL.) and the TRUTH IS NOT IN THEM.)

But the ANOINTING which we received ABIDES IN US, we do not need ANY MAN TO TEACH US, but the same ANOINTING, TEACHES US ALL THINGS, and is TRUTH, and is NO LIE, and even as IT HAS TAUGHT US, we shall ABIDE IN HIM.

HE THAT COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL, FOR THE DEVIL SINNED FROM THE BEGINNING, THE SON OF GOD WAS MANIFSTED TO DESTROY THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL. (LIES, SINS.)




John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Repentance is this way:



2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

None of this disagrees with what I posted, so I guess it is all moot.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Well at least the 12 claimed they did fulfill Luke 12:33 when Peter replied with Matthew 19:27

Neither of these verses say that the 12 calimed perfection. Peter said that they had left all to follow him but what all did he actually leave? His fishing business? What did Peter do even after He made this statement? Nothing less than denying Christ 3 times using foul language.

 

[Guojing]

Neither of these verses say that the 12 calimed perfection. Peter said that they had left all to follow him but what all did he actually leave? His fishing business? What did Peter do even after He made this statement? Nothing less than denying Christ 3 times using foul language.

My point was just about Jesus’s specific command to sell all they have, which we agree that no Christian actually does that today

 

[Mercy Shown]

Holy isn't what we do, it's what we are. Which is set aside for a purpose.

God is Holy are you arguing that God is set aside for a purpose. The core meaning of "Holy" when it comes to God is "morally flawless." and 1Peter 1:14 - 16 says, "As obedient children, do not conform to the passions of your former ignorance. But just as He who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do, for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”

The idea isn't to be meticulous navel gazers picking apart our every sin, but to abide in Jesus. We are holy because He abides in us. It is only by His presence that we will be transformed to conform to His image and be delivered from sin.

This is why God demanded the impossible so that we might be driven to him to recieve from Christ the finished work He accomplished.

 

[Fervent]

God is Holy are you arguing that God is set aside for a purpose. The core meaning of "Holy" when it comes to God is "morally flawless." and 1Peter 1:14 - 16 says, "As obedient children, do not conform to the passions of your former ignorance. But just as He who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do, for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”

No,holy is not "morally flawless" it is thoroughly distinct. It doesn't make sense to talk about God in terms of morality, because He is the determinant of what is moral. God's holiness is His alienness.

This is why God demanded the impossible so that we might be driven to him to recieve from Christ the finished work He accomplished.

God set no impossible standard, it is only in the light of Augustinian conception of original sin that the idea of impossible sinless perfection came to be seen as God's standard, as a result of polemics against the Donatists for their rigorism. It would be immoral for God to hold us to a standard we couldn't meet, as even human moral systems recognize that there is an injustice in assigning culpability where ability (or inability) is not present.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Is it?.....

Joh 14:12 Indeed, I tell you truly, the-one believing upon Me, the works which I do, shall that-one do also, and greater than these shall he do, because I go unto My Father.

That's the standard that Jesus gave all of us, not just the apostles,... but it looks like the apostles did reach that standard by their recorded actions.

No, Christ reached the standard and then imputed it to them.

I do get the feeling that you are somewhat against the idea that a Christian can walk free of sin, but to reach this standard that Jesus gave us, we have to.

We are all called to be perfect, which drives us to the only true source of perfection: Jesus Christ. Yet perfection is not a gift without a cost. The law demands payment, and that price is eternal destruction. Thankfully, Christ paid that price on our behalf, giving us his perfection while taking our imperfection upon himself.

Most Christians nowadays become defeatist about such a notion. They see themselves caught up in sinful activities and eventually give up after so long a time, and think that everyone else around them must also be caught up in their sins. That's not always the case.

Not sure what you men by "caught up in their sins." We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. And yes, I was one who gave up and finally surrendered to Jesus Christ who has saved me to the uttermost so that I now stand before God as if I had never sinned becuse Christ stood before God as a damned sinner.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

I’ve often wondered why the Bible gives us so many commands that seem impossible to follow — things like be holy, love your enemies, be perfect, and do not sin. If no one can actually live up to that standard, how can anyone possibly be saved? I want to be perfect, God' wants me to be perfect, so why am I not perfect?

The commandments reflect God's Holy nature, and they show the sin within us.

You are correct than not one of us can keep God's commandments. That's why God gave us the commandments, to show us that we need a Saviour who is Holy without sin, and this should lead a sinner to Christ.

 

[Aaron112]

You are correct than not one of us can keep God's commandments.

The messenger of YHVH, the apostle paul, did.