BUSTED - 12 False theories refuted:

[David Lamb]

This (amillenniumism) was known to be false in the first century, and ever since then,
yet "they prefer darkness over light" is truth as also seen in the thread of same title, referenced below (on this page under "Similar threads) and multitudes follow that false gospel even or more-so today in our lifetimes than ever before. As long as someone/anyone follows some other voice(s) instead of Jesus Himself, will they ever choose to follow Jesus ?

Yet there are plenty of genuine Christians who are amillennialists. I came across this site, Pastor Gabe • Amillennialism which included these words:

"More recent amillennial theologians include A.W. Pink, J.I. Packer, Kim Riddlebarger, Owen Strachan, Jeffery Johnson, and Voddie Baucham."

 

[keras]

Yet there are plenty of genuine Christians who are amillennialists. I came across this site, Pastor Gabe • Amillennialism which included these words:

"More recent amillennial theologians include A.W. Pink, J.I. Packer, Kim Riddlebarger, Owen Strachan, Jeffery Johnson, and Voddie Baucham."

All wise and learned people. All highly qualified and have written lengthy dissertations on the Bible. All are wrong because;
Jesus said: I thank you Father for hiding these things from the learned and wise....Isaiah 42:18-20

 

[David Lamb]

All wise and learned people. All highly qualified and have written lengthy dissertations on the Bible. All are wrong because;
Jesus said: I thank you Father for hiding these things from the learned and wise....Isaiah 42:18-20

When Jesus said, "I thank you Father for hiding these things from the learned and wise," He was surely talking of those with worldly wisdom.

 

[Kathleen30]

Ther Kingdom is here now; Spiritually.
To come physically after Jesus Returns; Isaiah 2:1-4, Isaiah 65:18-21, Zechariah 14:16-21

Keras that future new kingdom would commence after the great white throne judgement would it not with a new heavens and a new earth

 

[Strong in Him]

All wise and learned people. All highly qualified and have written lengthy dissertations on the Bible. All are wrong because;
Jesus said: I thank you Father for hiding these things from the learned and wise....Isaiah 42:18-20

Which can't mean anyone who is wise, as Jesus, himself, had wisdom.
James says that if we want wisdom, we should ask God and we will receive it.

The reference you gave from Isaiah is not related to the words you quoted from Jesus.

 

[keras]

Keras that future new kingdom would commence after the great white throne judgement would it not with a new heavens and a new earth

After Jesus Returns; Rev 19:11 ......He commences His Millennium reign. when Jesus completes the thousand years, He will hand the Kingdom back to the Father God, 1 Corinthians 15:24 Then comes Eternity.

 

[keras]

When Jesus said, "I thank you Father for hiding these things from the learned and wise," He was surely talking of those with worldly wisdom.

Explain then; why is there so much dissent and variety of opinion among those 'learned and wise' theologians?
From what I read of those 'highly qualified' people, they are floundering in assumptions, suppositions and plan guesswork. They generally fail to use other scriptures, modern knowledge and hindsight, to help explain the Prophetic Word.

The reference you gave from Isaiah is not related to the words you quoted from Jesus.

Isaiah 42:18-20 shows that Gods servants can be fooled and Isaiah 29:9-12, says why the Lord confuses them, because they have chosen to believe lies and falsehoods. 2 Timothy 4:3-4

AS the forthcoming Day of the Lords wrath, will be the great Day of our test of faith, 1 Peter 4:12, it is not the Lords will that many will understand His plans. As Daniel 12:10b says.

 

[Strong in Him]

Explain then; why is there so much dissent and variety of opinion among those 'learned and wise' theologians?

Dissent regarding, what?
If it's dissent about translations of the Bible; new discoveries are/have been made and language changes. There are passages in the OT which have a footnote to the effect, "the Hebrew for this sentence is unclear." If even the original language is unclear, how do you expect people to agree how to translate it?
If you're talking about dissent in how to interpret a passage - you tell me. A quick glance at the Eschatology forum shows me that you make several long posts, with Scriptures and others disagree with you and also quote Scriptures.
This thread, alone, is supposed to be about debunking myths - yet others disagree with you.

From what I read of those 'highly qualified' people, they are floundering in assumptions, suppositions and plan guesswork. They generally fail to use other scriptures, modern knowledge and hindsight, to help explain the Prophetic Word.

I have no doubt at all that you will tell me that I am wrong - but I don't agree it's our job TO explain the prophetic word.
Or at least, explain it in context, yes. Explain what the people of the day would have understood by it, yes.
But applying it to our age, situation and circumstances? I do not believe anyone has that authority.

For example, in one thread somewhere you seem convinced that the "flying scroll" that Zechariah saw and which had writing on both sides, was actually a nuclear bomb and one country is going to use it, soon, to nuke another.
How on earth did you come to that conclusion?
Why does that Scripture apply to us now, rather than to anyone in the past or to people who are still to come?
You wrote about that as though it is the truth. Several people disagree with you, not only about that, but seemingly about most things that you write.

Isaiah 42:18-20 shows that Gods servants can be fooled

Fooled about what - and which of God's servants are you talking about? Moses wasn't fooled, neither was Isaiah, Jeremiah, Micah, Amos etc.
And they are OT examples - are you saying that God would let his children be deceived? Or that Jesus was wrong and we can be snatched out of God's hand?

AS the forthcoming Day of the Lords wrath, will be the great Day of our test of faith, 1 Peter 4:12, it is not the Lords will that many will understand His plans. As Daniel 12:10b says.

You seem to be mixing random OT and NT Scriptures to try to make your point.
Why?

 

[Strong in Him]

Then comes Eternity.

You make it sound as though eternity will start at some point in the future.
Eternity is eternity. God is eternal - he has no beginning nor end.

Anyway, you don't think that Jesus is even returning for another 15-20 years. We may not be here then.

 

[keras]

Dissent regarding, what?

Disagreement about what the next Prophesied event will be. Quite a lot of ideas, theories and opinions on this.
My belief is it will be the Lords Day of wrath, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, which will commence all the end times as Prophesied.

As far as I can tell; disagreement about the multi- Prophesied Day of wrath, comes from those who wishfully think they will be raptured outta here.
Ot those who foolishly assert it happened in the past.

I don't agree it's our job TO explain the prophetic word.

Paul said the Christians have different tasks to do. One is the promote and help explain the Prophetic Word. That is my God given task.
I view the reason that people object to what I do, is that the plainly stated Prophesies conflict with their preconceived beliefs.

How on earth did you come to that conclusion?

Because Zechariah 5 fits perfectly with Iran getting nuke missiles. They have/will get them and they will certainly attempt to use them.
Jeremiah 49:35-37 informs us just what the Lord will do to them. Ezekiel 32:24-25

are you saying that God would let his children be deceived?

Yes,
Just this conversation, shows how one of us is deceived. We are both Christians, but we have opposing views on Gods plans for our future.

You seem to be mixing random OT and NT Scriptures to try to make your point.
Why?

The Bible is one coherent and all purpose Book. The Prophesies are given from Genesis to Revelation. Some fulfilled, most not yet.

You make it sound as though eternity will start at some point in the future.
Eternity is eternity. God is eternal - he has no beginning nor end.

God is Eternal, but we humans are physical now. Only at the GWT Judgment will those whose names are found in the Book of Life, be given immortality.

Anyway, you don't think that Jesus is even returning for another 15-20 years. We may not be here then.

Correct, it will take about that time to fulfil all the end times things, mostly as set out in Revelation.
We will surely be on earth, there is no scripture that says we ever leave it. God will come to dwell with the immortal peoples, on the new earth. Revelation 7:15-17 & Chapters 21-22

 

[Kathleen30]

After Jesus Returns; Rev 19:11 ......He commences His Millennium reign. when Jesus completes the thousand years, He will hand the Kingdom back to the Father God, 1 Corinthians 15:24 Then comes Eternity.

Keres it’s an interesting perspective depending when the resurrection of the living and the dead occurs I guess . Would God tolerate any unregenerate humanity in his new heavens and new earth ?. Anyway i keep in mind what you say

 

[Strong in Him]

Disagreement about what the next Prophesied event will be. Quite a lot of ideas, theories and opinions on this.

As there are on these forums.
A lot of people disagree with you.

My belief is it will be the Lords Day of wrath, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, which will commence all the end times as Prophesied.

May be correct; may not.

As far as I can tell; disagreement about the multi- Prophesied Day of wrath,

The OT Day of the Lord is not, imo, the same as Jesus' return.
In the OT it was believed that the Day of the Lord was when Israel would be rewarded for being God's chosen people, recompensed for all the evil that had been done against them and that all their enemies would be destroyed.

Ot those who foolishly assert it happened in the past.

How do you know it didn't?
Many prophecies had an application for that time, because prophets declared God's word, and judgment, about what was happening at the time.
If the Israelites kept worshipping foreign gods, for example, they would be punished and taken into exile - which they were. And some time later they returned from exile.
It doesn't mean that we have the right, or authority, to apply those Scriptures to our own situation just because some of the details appear to fit.
Jesus had that authority; as did the Apostles who were taught, and commissioned, by him.
So Peter was correct to say that Pentecost was a fulfillment of Joel's prophecy. Matthew was correct to say that certain prophecies were fulfilled by Jesus.

I'm not convinced that anyone today has the authority to take OT prophecies and apply them to countries, and events, in the 21st century.
Look at how many have done just that to give us dates for Jesus' return. All have been wrong.
Many years ago someone prophesied that the previous pope would be the last one. He was wrong too.

Paul said the Christians have different tasks to do. One is the promote and help explain the Prophetic Word.

If you're talking about 1 Corinthians 12 and the gift of prophecy, how do you know he doesn't mean people of his day who had the gift of prophecy? He certainly didn't say that the Christian's job is to take OT prophets and reapply their words to our situation.

That is my God given task.

In which case, everything you say will be correct and people will agree with you.
Yet you've been wrong once already, about 2012. You excused that by saying that it was a guess. Anyone whose task is to explain the prophetic word has no business to be guessing - otherwise how would we know what to believe and why would anyone take you seriously?

Because Zechariah 5 fits perfectly with Iran getting nuke missiles.

So a nuclear bomb is shaped like a flying scroll with writing on both sides, is it?
It fits if you want to make it fit.

Yes,

I don't believe that God will allow those who belong to him to be deceived.

Just this conversation, shows how one of us is deceived. We are both Christians, but we have opposing views on Gods plans for our future.

That's not deception - we have different attitudes towards Scripture, that's all.
You seem to believe that the OT prophecies are there to foretell, our future and that you have been appointed to explain/unravel them.
I disagree.
But neither of us have been deceived about God, Jesus and the Gospel.

The Bible is one coherent and all purpose Book.

Yes - so look at, and study, the passages in context. Don't take isolated verses, couple them with a random NT verse and declare that it is a prophecy for OUR future.

What I mean is, imo, no one today has the right to look at, say Ezekiel, and teach that it applies to the Israel/Gaza war. Or that Zechariah teaches that Iran will get nuclear weapons.

The Prophesies are given from Genesis to Revelation.

Prophecies have a dual application.
Those with a future application applied to Jesus - they were not written to explain world events to us in the 21st century.

God is Eternal, but we humans are physical now.

I know. But you were saying that eternity will start at some point in the future.

Correct, it will take about that time to fulfil all the end times things, mostly as set out in Revelation.

As you see it.
I have no doubt that, if you and these forums were to be around in 20 years' time and these things hadn't happened, you'd have some explanation as to why not.

Jesus' teaching is to be ready because we do not know when he - the bridegroom, or master - is going to return.

 

[keras]

I have no doubt that, if you and these forums were to be around in 20 years' time and these things hadn't happened, you'd have some explanation as to why not.

You have the peculiar idea that the world will just keep on more or less as it is now.
The chances of that are vanishingly remote, as population soars way above sustainable level and the Labour pangs of the new age come on with increasing regularity and effects. [Wars, Famines, Plagues, Earthquakes, mega storms, Coronal Mass Ejections, and other disasters.]

Frankly, I am very concerned about the sheer scale of the forthcoming reset of our civilization. It will be a disaster of unprecedented magnitude and humans will become as scarce as fine gold. Isaiah 13:12
If people don't know all about what will happen, they simply haven't read the Prophetic Word.

 

[Strong in Him]

You have the peculiar idea that the world will just keep on more or less as it is now.

No, I don't, and I don't know where you got that idea from.

If people don't know all about what will happen, they simply haven't read the Prophetic Word.

And you're refusing to address my point that "the prophetic word" was not written to prophesy to US about OUR future.
Nor does anyone have the authority to say that it does.

 

[keras]

"the prophetic word" was not written to prophesy to US about OUR future.

So- just for long dead people, then? That makes about a quarter of our Bibles useless to us now.
I can see where you are coming from; for all the people over the last nearly 2000 years, the Prophesies about the end times, were practically useless.
But the world has changed exponentially over the last 100 years or so. The fact that I can hold a discussion with you, thousands of miles away, demonstrates this. There are many indications that some kind of dramatic change is close. It will be just as the Prophets have informed us - Why not? We believe in the Lord Jesus,, He said He would Return and He will. But much must happen before that glorious Day and if we don't know what God has planned , then we are just in the dark.

 

[keras]

Jesus' teaching is to be ready because we do not know when he - the bridegroom, or master - is going to return.

Most of us are probably not as interested as we should be in end times issues. Perhaps we have no intention of changing our views before the Return of Jesus, or death takes us away from it all. If it turns out that we die before Christ returns, then what is the difference? Would you really want to stand in His presence and admit you were not concerned about the truths taught in His Word? But what if you are still here during the Great Tribulation?

It is clear, from the Bible, that God does want His servants to be aware of His plans and be prepared, physically and spiritually for what must come.
Titus 2:13 tells us what we are waiting for: the glorious appearing of Jesus Christ. His coming will be seen by all, accompanied by a trumpet blast heard around the world. Those who say that there will be a “secret coming” before that event, a “rapture” have no Biblical justification for such a thing to happen. There will be a group, the elect, who will be taken to a place of safety, on earth, during the 3½ year Tribulation period. Revelation 12:6.

The Church will still be on earth when Jesus returns. Otherwise, we would not need to be exhorted to continue with righteous attitudes and activities until He comes.2Timothy 4:1-8, 1 Peter 1:13 & 4:12-13 & 5:1-4, 1 Corinthians 4:5, James 5:7-8, 1 Thess. 3:13, Philip. 1:9-11.

A Scripture passage often pointed to as a “rapture” text is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. But that plainly refers to the Return of Jesus. Paul describes those in Jerusalem ‘rising to meet Him in the air’ Firstly, this is simply a meeting, as He descends, and secondly this seems to be a transportation, similar to what Philip experienced, Acts 8:39

As we are now very close to the time when God will act on earth in order to fulfil His plans for His creation, careful study of Bible prophecy can inform us of end time events, even some timing is given to us. Don’t be one who is ignorant of coming events or worse still, have an apathetic attitude. What will Jesus say to you?

1 Corinthians 1:7-9 There is indeed no single gift you lack, while you wait expectantly for our Lord, Jesus Christ to reveal himself. He will keep you firm to the end without reproach until that Day. It is God Himself who called you to share in the life of His Son and God keeps faith.