Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Benaiah468]

Israel going to bomb Brussels now?

As the number of illegally constructed buildings has risen sharply over the years, the number of demolition orders has also increased.

 

[Desk trauma]

As the number of illegally constructed buildings has risen sharply over the years, the number of demolition orders has also increased.

In Brussels?

 

[eclipsenow]

Did PLO ever remove denial of Israel’s existence from the charter calling for Israel’s destruction after the Oslo Accords?

No.

Sorry - I need a source. Your claim that Palestinian leadership never granted Israel's right to exist is wrong. Again - this time try reading these documents and acknowledging they exist in the world!

In November 1988, the Palestinian parliament-in-exile, the Palestine National Council (PNC), adopted at its Algiers meeting a series of bold and historic resolutions in which the Palestinians indicated for the first time and in a formal manner their acceptance of the principle of partition of the historic land of Palestine. At the same time they accepted, based on the principle of mutual recognition, Israel's right to exist in part of what they consider their own patrimony, renounced the use of political violence, and declared the establishment of their state in exile to be eventually concretized in the West Bank and Gaza Strip with East Jerusalem as its capital.

Palestinians on the Peace Process​

www.palestine-studies.org​

Palestinian Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia​

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en.wikipedia.org​

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The Letters of Mutual Recognition were exchanged between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization on 9 September 1993. In their correspondence, Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin and Palestinian president Yasser Arafat agreed to begin cooperating towards a peaceful solution to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. The PLO recognized Israel's right to exist in peace, renounced Palestinian militancy and terrorism, and accepted UNSC Resolution 242 and UNSC Resolution 338. Israel recognized the PLO as a legitimate authority representing the Palestinian people and agreed to commence comprehensive negotiations for the Israeli–Palestinian peace process. These initial agreements between Rabin and Arafat laid the groundwork for the Oslo I Accord on 13 September 1993, effectively serving as its preamble.

Israel–Palestine Liberation Organization letters of recognition - Wikipedia​

en.wikipedia.org​

They undertook to do so at Oslo but have never fulfilled their obligation to do so.

Did Israel live up to the Oslo accords - or did an ultra-right Militant Zionist assassinate the Prime Minister rather than see peace in the Middle East?

Just like they started the second intifada when they decided violence was a better option to negotiation. They never intended to abide by the Oslo accords, just to gain an advantage in their attempts to destroy Israel as can be seen in their pay to slay policy.

Words recycled from the hate factories. I could read the same from the Palestinians.

But when it comes down to it, I know who is building the walls and systemically persecuting another people. I know FROM HISTORY who is ACTUALLY going down the NAZI pathway of Discrimination becomes Persecution becomes Ghettoization becomes Deportation becomes Concentration → the mass starvation in Gaza today.

The ICJ just ruled that Israel is guilty of starving the Gazan people.​

Whine all you want about how much those Gazans are terrible people - Israel killed 67,000 of them and 18,000 children.

Israel 'warned the enemy' that bombs were coming - but then used bombs with a 700 meter kill zone, crushing the lungs of any women and children within a 350 m radius of the strike! How is that surgical!?

Israel released 250 "Palestinian" terrorists who...

Yeah, I think I'm going to have to say "Israel" because really - how genetically Jewish are all those people that IDENTIFY as Jewish and emerged from 2000 of exile across the Roman and then European Empires? What percent of "Israel" actually stayed in Palestine? Didn't "Israel" stop existing when the Romans wiped out Jerusalem in 70AD and burned down the temple?

It's been Palestine for 2000 years. It has been Palestine LONGER than it was "Israel" before that! ​

And because "Modern Israel" has never abided by international law, should we recognise it as "Israel" until it gets off the land it's not supposed to be on?

But I'm glad you've at least dropped the pretence of trying to reinterpret UN Article 242 and the very Charter of the Untied Nations itself.

Honesty is progress. You can't really work on a problem until you admit you have one.

 

[Benaiah468]

Sorry - I need a source.

Those who finance the murderers of Jews with millions in payments cannot guarantee Israel's right to exist.

 

[eclipsenow]

Those who finance the murderers of Jews with millions in payments cannot guarantee Israel's right to exist.

That is not a valid source - but feels more like a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory.
It's also not that credible given the numbers involved.
Hamas committed an awful act - far beyond anything the French resistance did.

Yet Israel are still today's NAZIs when one considers the DECADES of operating internment camp ghettos and persecution.

67,000 dead - 18,000 children.

How dare they!

 

[Aryeh Jay]

67,000 dead - 18,000 children.

How dare they!

Wow! That's a lot of children. Funny how children matter when it's NOT about abortion.

 

[eclipsenow]

Wow! That's a lot of children. Funny how children matter when it's NOT about abortion.

My Christian position is that abortion is wrong.

My societal position - as informed by the best in social sciences - is that if we want to reduce abortion in society, just BANNING it and changing some squiggles on a piece of paper is barely going to touch it if the would-be parents feel economically insecure because Trump has shattered their income and kicked them off Medicare. You might think changing squiggles on a piece of parchment shows how you care for kids. But you cannot admit how desperate the urge for an abortion is when the parents feel like the whole family might starve!

If you can't deal with the real world data to come up with real world solutions, then YOU are the one that does not care about babies dying in abortions!

I can propose policies that will at least halve them. At LEAST bring your abortion rate down to the European levels.

But NOOOOO - you just want the entire complicated world of politics dumbed down to a 10 word sound byte about babies.

Ban it - and pass the champagne! Job done! And meanwhile under Trumpism and MAGA the abortion rate might even climb - like it did last time under Trump!

Let alone the potentially 2 MILLION a year that will die from overseas aid cuts, the extra 50,000 Americans a year - or more! - that could die from Medicare cuts - and who knows what abandoning the Paris accord will do to all our economies and the potential ecocide and increase in anthropogenic climate disasters all that could lead to!)

 

[Benaiah468]

The ICJ has ruled that Israel must resume cooperation with UNRWA and other UN organisations.

The 11 judges of the World Court demand that Israel cooperate unconditionally with UNRWA, an organisation that is demonstrably infiltrated by Hamas terrorists and whose employees actively participated in the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust. This decision is more than just a legal error: it is a moral bankruptcy that legitimises terrorists and forces a democratic state to cooperate with its own murderers.

The 11 ICJ judges brazenly claim that Israel has not presented ‘sufficient evidence’ that a significant portion of UNRWA employees belong to Hamas. This statement is not only false, it is a deliberate distortion of reality. Israel has presented hundreds of documents, video recordings, audio evidence and intelligence dossiers that prove beyond doubt that UNRWA is not a neutral aid organisation, but an integral part of Hamas's terrorist infrastructure.

On Oct 7 2023, UNRWA teachers, social workers and administrative staff were right in the thick of it. They murdered families, took hostages, looted houses and transported ammunition. Video footage shows UNRWA employees cheering, ‘I'm inside with the Jews!’ One UNRWA teacher was filmed throwing the body of a murdered Israeli onto a truck. Another took a female hostage into custody and bragged about it.

Over 1,200 UNRWA employees in Gaza, 10 per cent of the total workforce, have direct links to Hamas or "Palestinian" Islamic Jihad. UNRWA schools are systematically used to teach children to hate Jews. UNRWA buildings serve as Hamas command centres. UNRWA tunnels lead directly to underground bunkers where Israeli hostages are held captive.

In 2014, the car park at UNRWA headquarters in Gaza collapsed, because Hamas was digging terror tunnels underneath it. Everyone knew about it. No one talked about it. This is the culture of silence that UNRWA has cultivated for decades: looking the other way when Hamas misuses schools as weapons depots. Remaining silent when teachers educate their students to become martyrs. Cooperating when terrorists use UN vehicles for attacks.

The ICJ ruling reveals the fundamental hypocrisy of the international order. No other country in the world would be forced to cooperate with an organisation that has been proven to employ terrorists and whose employees have been involved in massacres against their own population.

Imagine if, after 9/11, the US had been asked to cooperate with a UN organisation whose employees support Al-Qaeda. Imagine if, after the Bataclan attacks, France were forced to cooperate with UN personnel who sympathise with ISIS. Imagine if, after a terrorist attack, Germany were instructed to work with UN employees who are Holocaust deniers.

Israel will not comply with this ruling. UNRWA remains permanently banned from the Gaza Strip.

 

[Desk trauma]

Imagine if, after 9/11, the US had been asked to cooperate with a UN organisation whose employees support Al-Qaeda.

We skipped the middle men and cozied up to the Saudis directly.

 

[Vanellus]

Dozens of Israeli soldiers identified in ICC complaint on killing of Hind Rajab

Dozens of Israeli soldiers identified in ICC complaint on killing of Hind Rajab​

The Hind Rajab Foundation has been tracking down the alleged killers of the Palestinian girl and her family ...
The filing "includes comprehensive digital, satellite, and forensic evidence confirming that Merkava IV tanks of the Vampire Empire Company repeatedly fired on the black Kia Picanto in which Hind and her family were trapped, and later targeted the ambulance sent to rescue her", HRF said.

"The attacks were carried out with full knowledge of the victims’ civilian and protected status, following prior coordination between the Palestinian Red Crescent and Israeli authorities," it added.

"The Foundation’s legal team concludes that these acts amount to war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide, under Articles 6, 7, and 8 of the Rome Statute".

The IDF soldiers killed with impunity knowing they would not be brought to justice for war crimes such as this.

 

[Benaiah468]

Dozens of Israeli soldiers identified in ICC complaint on killing of Hind Rajab

The IDF soldiers killed with impunity knowing they would not be brought to justice for war crimes such as this.

I knew this story, but Hind Rajab story was fabricated.

Check out the video Al Jazeera posted that proves the audio is a forgery before they pulled it down. Then read Mark Zlochin's detailed analysis clearly illustrating how the official story CANNOT be accurate based on the evidence Al Jazeera provides.

New Israeli documents reveal how deeply the terrorist organisation Hamas and the Qatari broadcaster Al Jazeera are intertwined.

According to this, the Qatari news centre Al Jazeera has for years not only acted as a mouthpiece for Hamas, but also as part of its operational apparatus of influence. Documents seized in Gaza paint a picture of systematic cooperation between the media organisation and the terrorist movement.

The materials evaluated speak of an ‘organised system of deliberate disinformation’ in which Al Jazeera deliberately adopted military narratives, disseminated Hamas video material and published false reports about Israeli soldiers without verification.

The revelations coincide with earlier Israeli allegations that Hamas propaganda and journalistic reporting in Gaza have long since merged. The fact that reporters accompanied the terrorist organisation during attacks suggests that Al Jazeera was not merely an observer but also a participant in the psychological dimension of the conflict.

 

[Benaiah468]

Those who finance the murderers of Jews with millions in payments cannot guarantee Israel's right to exist.

That is not a valid source

but one more reason not to negotiate with them.

The more Jews, the terrorists slay, the more the PA pays. PA President Mahmoud Abbas. the man, who claims he wants peace with Israel, yet he still refuses to condemn the horrific massacre of Oct 7th.

In Psalm 83, we find the language of anti-Semitism predicted for the end times. Here, the enemies of Israel speak:

They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance. Ps 83:4

This very language was spoken in 1948, 1967 and 1973. And Hamas, Fatah (PLO), Hezbollah, the enemies of Israel, still speak this language today.

 

[eclipsenow]

The ICJ has ruled that Israel must resume cooperation with UNRWA and other UN organisations.

It should

The 11 judges of the World Court demand that Israel cooperate unconditionally with UNRWA, an organisation that is demonstrably infiltrated by Hamas terrorists

It's not

"The Court also underscored that the Israeli authorities’ claim that UNRWA is infiltrated by Hamas was not substantiated, nor were allegations that UNRWA is not a neutral organisation.​

​

UNRWA and other agencies are present in the occupied Palestinian territory to address overwhelming needs, and we must all be allowed to do our work without obstruction."​

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/unrwa-statement-22oct25/

and whose employees actively participated in the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust.

Oh the humanity!
There I was thinking Hamas terrorists did it.
Oh wait - they did.

This decision is more than just a legal error: it is a moral bankruptcy

Yeah - you get em with your moral indignation! Except - who killed 67,000 Gazans and 18,000 children?

that legitimises terrorists

Israel have for decades now increasingly behaved like the very regime that forced so many Jews to flee Europe in WW2!! Discrimination becomes Persecution becomes Ghettoization becomes Deportation becomes Concentration → the mass starvation in Gaza today. So which is worse - militant Islam or militant Zionism? I know the numbers for THIS case!

The 11 ICJ judges brazenly claim that Israel has not presented ‘sufficient evidence’ that a significant portion of UNRWA employees belong to Hamas. This statement is not only false, it is a deliberate distortion of reality. Israel has presented hundreds of documents, video recordings, audio evidence and intelligence dossiers that prove beyond doubt that UNRWA is not a neutral aid organisation, but an integral part of Hamas's terrorist infrastructure.

You've drunk the cool-aid. But the ICJ are quite experienced in this stuff. They know what to look for when Israel send fake propaganda through to them. Israel have ignored the UN's rulings for over half a century - and continue to practice slow-motion ethnic cleansing in the West Bank. Settler colonisation. It's illegal, it's immoral, and it's killing people! How many people have Zionists killed in just the West Bank in the last decade!

Oh look - THAT number is higher than the October 7 attack on Israel!

But - unlike Israel - they're not armed by a super-power.
So they can't do anything - except die - or get kicked off the land the UN has granted them.
Or go crazy and commit more Oct 7's.

All of which means - maybe - just maybe - Israel could try OBEYING international law for once? Let Palestine develop as it should? Stop the pretence at moralistic outrage.

The world is disgusted with Israel right now.

We watched Gazan civilians being blown to bits for too long - with Netanyahu continuing the war to maintain emergency powers and avoid jail, sort of like Donald Trump's desperation to become President to avoid his won legal situations.

This perverse motivation drove him into Israel's hard right.

The UN's food distribution was cut from 400 to Israel's 4 - who then used 'crowding' as an excuse to shoot em up!

Innocent civilians - trying to get food!

And any time nations raised concerns over watching them starve - Israel's PM just called them Anti-Semitic.
Buddy - you use that word too much and we see through your indignation straight into the jail cell waiting patiently behind you.
Go away Bibi - you're a whining little boy who has lied almost as much as Trump.

Go straight to jail - do not collect $200!