Leviticus 20, Charlie Kirk, and Homosexuality

[Maria Billingsley]

As with the Leviticus passages, context matters. Jesus did not deliberately break the law in John 8, but prevented it from being broken through false testimony. When Jesus said "he who is without sin," he had a specific sin in mind and it takes understanding the legal procedures of Torah to understand what happened there. The person who throws the first stone in a case like the woman caught in adultery is her accuser, and through throwing the first stone was testifying to the guilt of the accused at risk of being cut off by God. The one throwing the stone was saying they personally witnessed the act of adultery, which if the men's statement about her being caught in the act were true they would have been in full rights to do so. There certainly wouldn't have been any consciousness of general guilt or a need for perfection to participate in the legal action, so when Jesus said "he who is without sin" what he was saying is if you can make that accusation without lying then throw the stone. He called their bluff, and evaded their trap. And in doing so prevented the law from being broken.

As for Leviticus, the book is about how to prevent contamination of the land so it doesn't vomit the people up and is principally dealing with religious practices. Its various bans must be understood in reference to the religious practices of the Canaanites and the social implications within the ancient near east's hierarchy. We cannot simply hold them up as universal dictates, we have to work through the context.

The Pharisees had their own interpretation of this particular law. Jesus Christ of Nazareth masterfully exposed the accusers' failure to uphold the Law's true requirements and intent.The Pharisees frequently and repeatedly accused Jesus of breaking the Law of Moses, their accepted interpretation of the Law at that time.
In their standards they intended to accuse Jesus of breaking the Law if he showed mercy. Jesus's action was not a nullification of the Mosaic Law, but a powerful act of justice that upheld the Law's strict requirements for a fair trial, and an act of mercy that extended forgiveness to the repentant sinner. In other words, by breaking " their" law , the purity of the law was exposed.

 

[Yarddog]

Not according to God, they came much sooner Exo20:11 they predated Moses, why God claimed them as His commandments Exo20:6 they sit under His mercy seat Exo25:21 and are in heaven Rev11:19 Rev15:5

None of those show what you claim. There is no record of Abraham observing the Sabbath as the Law commands the Jews. Keeping the Sabbath holy is different from later restrictions.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

None of those show what you claim. There is no record of Abraham observing the Sabbath as the Law commands the Jews. Keeping the Sabbath holy is different from later restrictions.

We are told Abraham kept God's commandments. Gen26:5 God claimed the Ten Commandments which includes the Sabbath as His commandments i.e. God Exo20:6 Deut4:13 Exo20:8-11 that started prior to Abraham. God said the Sabbath is for everyone, those who want to join themselves to Him, those who love His name and serve Him Isa56:6 Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark2:27 and the word Jesus used means mankind in Greek and Adam in Hebrew. God never made two weekly Sabbaths, just one Exo20:10 that God said started at Creation Exo20:11 Gen2:1-3. Because I say so, I do not believe is a good agreement against God's own Testimony. We however are given free will to believe what we want.

 

[Fervent]

The Pharisees had their own interpretation of this particular law. Jesus Christ of Nazareth masterfully exposed the accusers' failure to uphold the Law's true requirements and intent.The Pharisees frequently and repeatedly accused Jesus of breaking the Law of Moses, their accepted interpretation of the Law at that time.
In their standards they intended to accuse Jesus of breaking the Law if he showed mercy. Jesus's action was not a nullification of the Mosaic Law, but a powerful act of justice that upheld the Law's strict requirements for a fair trial, and an act of mercy that extended forgiveness to the repentant sinner. In other words, by breaking " their" law , the purity of the law was exposed.

"The Pharisees" certainly did accuse Jesus of breaking laws with respect to the Sabbath, but the law He was flouting was the halakah. You were saying that Jesus was breaking the Torah law on stoning adultress', which there is nothing in the text to think anyone but you made that claim. Jesus certainly showed mercy, but the law of the Pharisees(that is the halakah) has no bearing on the issue. It is purely a matter of Torah observance in what is required to levy an accusation that carried the death penalty.

Something else to keep in mind is that Jesus wasn't an outsider challenging the Pharisees, but was a part of the internal debates that were happening in Judaism in His day. Properly speaking, Jesus probably belonged to the Pharisees given His alignment with them on key issues like the scope of Scripture and the reality of the resurrection.

When we think about issues like mercy and fair trials and such we have to be careful not to import modern values into the text if our goal is to let the Bible be our basis.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

"The Pharisees" certainly did accuse Jesus of breaking laws with respect to the Sabbath, but the law He was flouting was the halakah. You were saying that Jesus was breaking the Torah law on stoning adultress', which there is nothing in the text to think anyone but you made that claim. Jesus certainly showed mercy, but the law of the Pharisees(that is the halakah) has no bearing on the issue. It is purely a matter of Torah observance in what is required to levy an accusation that carried the death penalty.

Something else to keep in mind is that Jesus wasn't an outsider challenging the Pharisees, but was a part of the internal debates that were happening in Judaism in His day. Properly speaking, Jesus probably belonged to the Pharisees given His alignment with them on key issues like the scope of Scripture and the reality of the resurrection.

When we think about issues like mercy and fair trials and such we have to be careful not to import modern values into the text if our goal is to let the Bible be our basis.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Yarddog]

We are told Abraham keept God's commandments.

He obeyed God but even Jews admit the difference between pre Mosaic Laws and post Mosaic Law. Jesus showed the difference by not obeying the Law strictly. The Apostles did the same when they limited what the Gentiles were to obey.

Gen26:5 God claimed the Ten Commandments which includes the Sabbath as His commandments i.e. God Exo20:6 Deut4:13 Exo20:8011 that started prior to Abraham.

The Law is far more than the 10 Commandments. There are 613 Commandments in the Law. Abraham didn't have all those to obey. He did what God told him.

God gave Noah only 7 laws given to him for his descendants. God gave Abraham commands to follow but until God gave those commands they were not necessary to obey.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

He obeyed God but even Jews admit the difference between pre Mosaic Laws and post Mosaic Law. Jesus showed the difference by not obeying the Law strictly. The Apostles did the same when they limited what the Gentiles were to obey.

The Ten Commandments predated Moses according to God Exo20:11 God said this right in the Ten Commandments

The Law is far more than the 10 Commandments. There are 613 Commandments in the Law. Abraham didn't have all those to obey. He did what God told him.

God gave Noah only 7 laws given to him for his descendants. God gave Abraham commands to follow but until God gave those commands they were not necessary to obey.

What number do you see? 613 or 10? I see Ten. God added no more than what He said and wrote, why are we adding something that God didn't. This is why its important to read our Bibles for ourselves instead of following what our popular pastors or other people are saying. No one is going to be saved by what others say or do. We are only saved by grace through faith. That means listening to one voice only God's. When God tells us something, especially His own written and spoken Testimony, how does one express faith in Him, but not what He says.

Deu 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

All of God's people keep God's commandments- His version Rev14:12 and this is the faith that reconciles us Rev22:14 When God tells us what they are, the only thing we should do is believe and have faith that leads to action.

 

[Yarddog]

The Ten Commandments predated Moses according to God Exo20:11 God said this right in the Ten Commandments

That is incorrect. That verse says that God hallowed the seventh day. There is no indication that Adam and his descendants hallowed the 7th day as the Mosaic Law demanded. There is nothing to show just what they did on the 7th day.

What number do you see? 613 or 10? I see Ten.

The tablets contained 10 but God kept adding to those commands over the years.

God added no more than what He said and wrote, why are we adding something that God didn't.

God added hundreds of commands.

This is why its important to read our Bibles for ourselves instead of following what our popular pastors or other people are saying.

I agree. Try it and don't add or subtract from what is written.

No one is going to be saved by what others say or do.

Correct.

We are only saved by grace through faith.

Agree.

That means listening to one voice only God's.

Agree.

When God tells us something, especially His own written and spoken Testimony, how does one express faith in Him, but not what He says.

Deu 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

All of God's people keep God's commandments- His version Rev14:12 and this is the faith that reconciles us Rev22:14 When God tells us what they are, the only thing we should do is believe and have faith that leads to action.

Correct. God only gave 10 commandments on the mountain but he didn't stop telling Moses commands to which Moses and the people were bound to do. Moses failed and God punished him and forbid him from entering the promised land.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That is incorrect. That verse says that God hallowed the seventh day. There is no indication that Adam and his descendants hallowed the 7th day as the Mosaic Law demanded. There is nothing to show just what they did on the 7th day.

The tablets contained 10 but God kept adding to those commands over the years.

God added hundreds of commands.

I agree. Try it and don't add or subtract from what is written.

Correct.

Agree.

Agree.

Correct. God only gave 10 commandments on the mountain but he didn't stop telling Moses commands to which Moses and the people were bound to do. Moses failed and God punished him and forbid him from entering the promised land.

Dear friend,

You have not provided any Scripture to prove your points, your arguments are not with me, but with the Scriptures. God added no more Deut5:22 is not God kept adding to the Ten Commandments. This is not even logical, God numbered His commandments by design, not 8, or 9 or 613. Deut4:13 Exo 34:28 These predated Moses according to God Exo 20:11

God gave Moses other laws, called the law of Moses, written by Moses on paper, placed outside the ark of the covenant as a witness against Deut31:24-26. They were added as a prescription to sin for breaking what IS sin, breaking the Ten Commandments breaking one we break them all James 2:10-11. God's holy and eternal law, that sits under the mercy seat of God Exo25:21 which is God's standard of Judgement James2:11-12 Ecc 12:13-14 Mat5:19-30 Rev22:14-15 Rev11:18-19 why its also in heaven in the Most Holy of God's Temple revealed at the last trumpet before He returns Rev11:18-19 Rev 15:5 I personally would not want to remove a jot or tittle of what God covers and gives mercy to Exo20:6 , but we do have free will.

 

[Yarddog]

Dear friend,

You have not provided any Scripture to prove your points, your arguments are not with me, but with the Scriptures.

My argument isn't with scripture but your interpretation of scripture. You ignore so much.

God added no more Deut5:22 is not God kept adding to the Ten Commandments.

If you read Deut. better you will see that the Mosaic laws, including the 10 Commandments were made with Israel in the wilderness, not before.

Deuteronomy 4 : 1-2

(1] And now, O Israel, hearken unto the statutes and unto the ordinances, which I teach you, to do them; that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which Jehovah, the God of your fathers, giveth you. [2] Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of Jehovah your God which I command you...

Deuteronomy 4 : 13
And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even the ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deuteronomy 4 : 40
And thou shalt keep his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days in the land, which Jehovah thy God giveth thee, for ever.

Deuteronomy 5 : 1-3
[1] And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and observe to do them. [2] Jehovah our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. [3] Jehovah made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

As you can see, the 10 Commandments did not predate Moses, though the Noahide laws contained most of the 10.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

My argument isn't with scripture but your interpretation of scripture.

I am posting the Scriptures and believing them as it reads. We do not need to interpret God's Word, He does so for us. Pro3:5-6

If you read Deut. better you will see that the Mosaic laws, including the 10 Commandments were made with Israel in the wilderness, not before.

Deuteronomy 4 : 1-2

(1] And now, O Israel, hearken unto the statutes and unto the ordinances, which I teach you, to do them; that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which Jehovah, the God of your fathers, giveth you. [2] Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of Jehovah your God which I command you...

Deuteronomy 4 : 13
And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even the ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deuteronomy 4 : 40
And thou shalt keep his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days in the land, which Jehovah thy God giveth thee, for ever.

Deuteronomy 5 : 1-3
[1] And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and observe to do them. [2] Jehovah our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. [3] Jehovah made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

As you can see, the 10 Commandments did not predate Moses, though the Noahide laws contained most of the 10.

Thank you for posting Scriptures, its always better to do so, than just use our words.

I think you might be misunderstanding the what we are debating. I never said the Ten Commandments, the words of the covenant Exo34:28 God's Testimony written by God, that nothing more was added Deut 5:22 and in addition, the law of Moses Deut 31:24-26 was never given to Israel.

Israel is a name God gave to represent His people, which represents His church or sons and daughters. A covenant is an agreement. Yes God gave a covenant to Israel, He also made individual covenants to people before Israel. Israel was the first covenant/agreement given to an entire nation, why it was so unique.

However this does not change God's Testimony that His commandments started prior to this Exo20:11 Where there is no law there is no sin Rom4:15 andwe read our Bibles, it clearly shows there was sin way before Mt Sinai.

 

[Aaron112]

and many Old Testament passages sound pretty rough - especially compared with the gospel

Jesus was tougher than the OT passages - now, those who simply think those things in their heart are guilty, and deserve death. Notice also eternal death, not just destruction of the body...... there are no adulterers, liars, gays, greedy, false gospel believers and bringers, idolators , deceivers, and so forth in heaven in the life to come..... how to deal with all that, to prevent all those abominations in any group or place today , especially how not to be permanently contaminated , how to not be an abomination in God's Plan , how to be becoming like a little child allowed to see the kingdom of God.... important. Life and death differences.

 

[Yarddog]

I am posting the Scriptures and believing them as it reads.

As you read them but others read the same verses and can come away with a different interpretation. That is one reason that there are hundreds of different churches within Christianity.

We do not need to interpret God's Word, He does so for us. Pro3:5-6

No one can understand scripture without God's Spirit revealing them.

I think you might be misunderstanding the what we are debating. I never said the Ten Commandments, the words of the covenant Exo34:28 God's Testimony written by God, that nothing more was added Deut 5:22 and in addition, the law of Moses Deut 31:24-26 was never given to Israel.

I didn't say that you said the law "was never given to Israel".
You said:
"The Ten Commandments predated Moses according to God Exo20:11 God said this right in the Ten Commandments."

I disagreed with this because Exodus 20:11 does not say what you claim. I, also, proved that by giving you what was written in Deuteronomy 5:3 clearly states that.

Jehovah made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
Deuteronomy 5 : 3

 

[SabbathBlessings]

As you read them but others read the same verses and can come away with a different interpretation. That is one reason that there are hundreds of different churches within Christianity.

No one can understand scripture without God's Spirit revealing them.

Yes and God’s Spirit is not going to go away from God’s Word. This is not the spirit we want. I will never understand the argument that the Holy Spirit who wrote the Ten Commandments is at odds with the God who commanded them.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there[a] is no light in them.

I didn't say that you said the law "was never given to Israel".
You said:
"The Ten Commandments predated Moses according to God Exo20:11 God said this right in the Ten Commandments."I disagreed with this because Exodus 20:11 does not say what you claim

Can you please tell me what God is referring to if this is not Creation that He said in the Ten Commandments showing they already existed? Is there another event where God made the heavens and earth and rested on the Sabbath day, which is the seventh day Exo 20:10 Gen 2:1-3 if so can you please point this out to me.

Exo 20: 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

I, also, proved that by giving you what was written in Deuteronomy 5:3 clearly states that.

Jehovah made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
Deuteronomy 5 : 3

A covenant is an agreement. God never made an agreement with an entire nation before Israel, it was always individual agreements, so it’s not the same agreement, this one was made to an entire nation. It still does not dispute the fact that where there is no law there is no sin. Romans4:15 Cain killed Abel and God said “sin” lies at your door. What law says thou shalt not murder? As we clearly seen in Exo16, they were given God’s commandments before being written down and much sooner as God stated plainly Exo20:11

 

[Yarddog]

Yes and God’s Spirit is not going to go away from God’s Word. This is not the spirit we want. I will never understand the argument that the Holy Spirit who wrote the Ten Commandments is at odds with the God who commanded them.

Who says that?

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there[a] is no light in them.

Can you please tell me what God is referring to if this is not Creation that He said in the Ten Commandments showing they already existed?

Isaiah 8:20 is telling us to trust God's scripture instead of "psychics" or those with familiar spirits with wizards, verse 19.

Is there another event where God made the heavens and earth and rested on the Sabbath day, which is the seventh day Exo 20:10 Gen 2:1-3 if so can you please point this out to me.

God blessed the Sabbath and told man to keep it holy. But, there is more to the The Lord's rest than a day of no work. The 7th day is our eternal rest in the Lord Jesus Christ.(righteousness through faith, not works) People look at scripture and fail to see the Spiritual truth which lies with. Hidden from those who won't see.

God gave the people of Israel a day, each week, to rest. This was just a shadow of the rest that we find through faith.

Exo 20: 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

A covenant is an agreement. God never made an agreement with an entire nation before Israel, it was always individual agreements, so it’s not the same agreement, this one was made to an entire nation. It still does not dispute the fact that where there is no law there is no sin. Romans4:15 Cain killed Abel and God said “sin” lies at your door. What law says thou shalt not murder? As we clearly seen in Exo16, they were given God’s commandments before being written down and much sooner as God stated plainly Exo20:11

God was giving man commands from the beginning. Understanding all the prophecy in the book of Genesis only comes from God's revelation. Just as Paul tells us about Sarah and Hagar are allegories, so are others in Genesis. Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel...

 

[SabbathBlessings]

God blessed the Sabbath and told man to keep it holy. But, there is more to the The Lord's rest than a day of no work.

Agreed. We are to rest from our work so we can keep the Sabbath day holy. Exo 20:8-11 its about a day turning off all the distractions of the world and focusing our attention on God Isa58:13 as the examples of Scripture though His word, prayer, helping others in need, and coming together as a family for worship Luke4:16 Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4 which continues in heaven Isa66:23

The 7th day is our eternal rest in the Lord Jesus Christ.(righteousness through faith, not works) People look at scripture and fail to see the Spiritual truth which lies with. Hidden from those who won't see.

So obeying God the way God said is "work" so therefore we should disobey God and people who look for Scripture and God's word as "Truth" Psa119:151 John17:17 to guide them Psa119:105 is really being deceived. And the Holy Spirit of Truth is leading people away from keeping God's commandments through love according to you instead of what Jesus said John14:15-18 I think we need to be careful of what some are teaching sadly even from the pulpits as Jesus warned Mat 24:5 Mark7:7-13 Mat5:19 Col2:8

God was giving man commands from the beginning.

Is this what you think Exo20:11 means?

Just as Paul tells us about Sarah and Hagar are allegories, so are others in Genesis. Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel...

What does this have to do with Exo20:11 there was no Sarah or Hagar at Creation. That story was a result of sin,. There is no Scripture that says we should use all Scripture as learning and correction, means it deletes the actual event.

At Creation God made everything according to His perfect plan before the fall. God does not change. Heb13:8. No one was breaking the Ten Commandments at Creation Exo20:1-17 and no one will be breaking them upon entrance back to the tree of life Rev22:14 we need a transformation now before He returns Rev22:11

 

[Yarddog]

So obeying God the way God said is "work" so therefore we should disobey God and people who look for Scripture and God's word as "Truth" Psa119:151 John17:17 to guide them Psa119:105 is really being deceived.

No. I am talking about salvation. There are no works, other than those accomplished by Jesus, through which man can be justified. We find righteousness through Faith, not works of the law.

The early Church was called "the Way" because Jesus is the way, not the Law.

And the Holy Spirit of Truth is leading people away from keeping God's commandments through love according to you instead of what Jesus said John14:15-18

No, God baptizes his children with the Holy Spirit and this Spirit makes us Holy. Through faith, we are made righteous, not because we obeyed the law, just like Abraham.

If we truly trust God, we surrender to his Spirit and allow the Spirit teach us to love. As we change and love as Jesus loved us, the desire to do wrong dies within our members. We obey God, not because we are trying to justify ourselves, but because God's love controls us.

I think we need to be careful of what some are teaching sadly even from the pulpits as Jesus warned Mat 24:5 Mark7:7-13 Mat5:19 Col2:8

Correct.

Is this what you think Exo20:11 means?

No. The 7th day is God's rest, righteous. We keep God's rest holy by giving ourselves over to God, 24/7. We are obedient to God by loving all.

What does this have to do with Exo20:11 there was no Sarah or Hagar at Creation.

I pointed allegories and used them as examples from Paul's testimony. An allegory is an account which has a deeper meaning than what we read. Sarah, according to Paul, is the new Covenant, free under Christ, while Hagar is the old Covenant, bound by the Law. Galatians 4: 22-26.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No. I am talking about salvation. There are no works, other than those accomplished by Jesus, through which man can be justified. We find righteousness through Faith, not works of the law.

We are saved by grace through faith. Does faith void the law or establish it according to Scripture Rom3:31 Does faith obey God's voice or disobey in your view? Works of the law is when we go outside what God asks to try to save ourselves, like the Jews were doing that Paul was correcting. They thought all they had to do was circumcise themselves and they would be saved outside of Christ. Gal2:3 Acts 15:1 This is what Paul was correcting, not dishonoring God Rom2:21-23 and disobeying Him and His commandments which Paul said keeping is what matters 1Cor7:19.

The early Church was called "the Way" because Jesus is the way, not the Law.

The law shows us our sin Rom3:20 Rom7:7 and leads us to Christ Psa19:7 Would someone in Christ be worshipping other gods or breaking Gods holy law? Not according to Scripture, that is called rebellion, sin and unbelief Heb3:7-13

No, God baptizes his children with the Holy Spirit and this Spirit makes us Holy. Through faith, we are made righteous, not because we obeyed the law, just like Abraham.

Are you sure about that? We are made righteous through faith. Does faith void the law and the voice of God? Not according to Scripture. The faith part is what saves, the action part proves our faith is genuine, instead of being just hearers James1:22

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.

Gen 26:5 5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

How many times did God move on from those who disobeyed Him in Scripture. He is long suffering and gives man plenty opportunity to turn from evil and walk in faith, which is obedience. Do not be deceived that God loves us more than those who came before us.


Romans 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
John 15:5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you[b] will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples. 9 “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

If we truly trust God, we surrender to his Spirit and allow the Spirit teach us to love. As we change and love as Jesus loved us, the desire to do wrong dies within our members. We obey God, not because we are trying to justify ourselves, but because God's love controls us.

So Jesus who says If, which means its conditional you keep My commandments, I will send you the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is working against what Jesus said?


John 14:15 “If you love Me, [d]keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

The Holy Spirit resides in those who obey Him


Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

It convicts those who don't John 16:8 if they hear His voice calling them out of their rebellion Heb3:7-19 Rom8:7-8

No. The 7th day is God's rest, righteous.

The seventh day is the Sabbath according to God Exo 20:10 the day He commanded us to keep holy Exo 20:8-11. We are told how to do that Lev23:3 Isa58:13 Isa56:1-6 all throughout the Bible by the example of Jesus Luke4:16 and the apostles Acts 13:42,44 Acts 18:4

We keep God's rest holy by giving ourselves over to God, 24/7.

We should give ourselves to God 24/7 and in doing so would one be obeying or disobeying God's commandments. Jesus in His own words relates false worship to disobeying God's commandments. Mark7:7-13 Mat15:3-14 this is the result of a saved person Rev14:12

We are obedient to God by loving all.

We are obedient to God by doing all of what God says, not just a couple verses we like and disregard everything else. Jesus said to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, not just the ones we agree to. Mat4:4. Love is not a feeling, its not something that went undefined in Scripture either, its not something based on each individual feelings, which is deceptive, God tells us how to love Him and how to love each other, He literally spelled it out 1 John 5:2-3 Exo20:6 John14:15 Exo31:18 Rom13:9 Exo20:1-17 and Jesus showed us what it means connecting the inward with the outward Mat5:19-30

I pointed allegories and used them as examples from Paul's testimony. An allegory is an account which has a deeper meaning than what we read. Sarah, according to Paul, is the new Covenant, free under Christ, while Hagar is the old Covenant, bound by the Law. Galatians 4: 22-26.

This has nothing to do with Exo20:11 nor is this the proper understanding of the story of Hagar and Sarah. If you keep reading in Galatians you will see Paul is not teaching not to obey God's commandments, he goes on to say those who do will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

I think I need to move along, I have provided solid Scriptures, I guess everything will get sorted out soon enough. I do wish you well.

 

[Yarddog]

We are saved by grace through faith.

Yes.

Does faith void the law or establish it according to Scripture Rom3:31

As a Gentile, I am not under the Law. (Romans2:14)
The Law was given to the nation of Israel. (Remember Deuteronomy)
Paul is talking to Jews of the Roman church, in the first of the book of Romans. He later starts talking to the Gentiles. (Romans 11:13)

Does faith obey God's voice or disobey in your view?

Faith leads us to obey God as Abraham did, who also did not have the Law. (Deuteronomy)

Works of the law is when we go outside what God asks to try to save ourselves, like the Jews were doing that Paul was correcting.

Yes. God has written his commands in our hearts and we obey them through his Spirit.

They thought all they had to do was circumcise themselves and they would be saved outside of Christ. Gal2:3 Acts 15:1 This is what Paul was correcting, not dishonoring God Rom2:21-23 and disobeying Him and His commandments which Paul said keeping is what matters 1Cor7:19.

We are under the New Covenant.
Luke 22:20
And the cup in like manner after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, even that which is poured out for you.

Jesus is the meditator of the New Covenant. (Hebrews 9:15)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes.

As a Gentile, I am not under the Law. (Romans2:14)
The Law was given to the nation of Israel. (Remember Deuteronomy)
Paul is talking to Jews of the Roman church, in the first of the book of Romans. He later starts talking to the Gentiles. (Romans 11:13)

Faith leads us to obey God as Abraham did, who also did not have the Law. (Deuteronomy)

Yes. God has written his commands in our hearts and we obey them through his Spirit.

We are under the New Covenant.
Luke 22:20
And the cup in like manner after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, even that which is poured out for you.

Jesus is the meditator of the New Covenant. (Hebrews 9:15)

I could provide more Scriptures to show what some of these things mean, but it doesn't seem like you're that interested so I will just leave it as agree to disagree and wish you well. Thanks for the chat.