Pain and Suffering, yet a benevolent God

[Bob Crowley]

I think I could claim that there's been a lot of frustration in my life, particularly in the "vocation" or "career" sense.

Lately it's been annoying me a lot, so I sat down to reread CS Lewis "The Problem of Pain".

In chapter one he starts with "Not many years ago when I was an atheist, if anyone had asked me, 'Why do you not believe in God?' .... and he went on to point to the universe we live in ... the greatest part consists of empty space ... Earth herself existed without life for millions of years and may exist for millions more when life has left her ... it is so arranged that all the forms of it can live only by preying on one another ... the creatures cause pain by being born, and live by inflicting pain, and in pain they mostly die ... in...Man... reason (appears) .. (which) ... enables men by a hundred ingenious contrivances to inflict a great deal more pain than they otherwise could have done on one another and on the irrational creatures... their history is largely a record of crime, war, disease and terror... etc.

But then he did a volte face. "There was one question which I never dreamed of raising. I never noticed that the very strength and facility of the pessimists' case at once poses us a problem. If the unverse is so bad, or even half so bad, how on earth did human beings ever come to attribute it to the activity of a wise and good Creator? Men are fools perhaps; but hardly so foolish as that. The direct inference from white to black, from evil flower to virtuous root, from senseless work to a workman infinitely wise, staggers belief. The spectacle of the universe as revealed by experience can never have been the ground of religion: it must always have been something in spite of which religion, acquired from a different source, was held."

Any thoughts on how this volte farce took place - the belief in a wise and good Creator when the universe and human society itself shouts the complete opposite?

When the Black Death was killing off half of (Christian) Europe for example, did God's wisdom and love shine forth?

 

[Fervent]

From your questions, I'm not sure that we understand the force of Lewis' argument the same. The incongruence itself is being held to be evidence not of God's wisdom and love being discoverable through examining the universe and its operations but that the fact that such a belief came about at all seems to require an external origin because no one would make a direct inference from the observation of untold suffering in the universe to an all good Creator. It is essentially an argument for direct Divine revelation based on the very incongruence that those who raise the problem of evil are depending on.

 

[Unqualified]

God spoke to Adam, Enoch, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the judges, kings, prophets, John the Baptist, Jesus and to some of us.

 

[Bob Crowley]

There are a lot of people He didn't speak to, so why should they think He is benevolent?

 

[Unqualified]

Because they wrote it in a book. Because, ‘ God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever should believe on him should not perish but have everlasting life’. There is tribulation in life because of Adam s sin. But since Jesus it is much more than that. Everybody who died before had a chance to accept Christ, when He went to hell to preach to the captives. Don’t focus on the bad stuff. There’s freedom in Christ and healing. ‘The truth will set you free’. Focus on the unspeakable joy that brings.. I’m sorry if you are suffering but that seems to be covered too. Joy in trials and pleasure in afflictions that we can have while suffering. I’m sorry for your tears. But God cares for us.

 

[eleos1954]

I think I could claim that there's been a lot of frustration in my life, particularly in the "vocation" or "career" sense.

Lately it's been annoying me a lot, so I sat down to reread CS Lewis "The Problem of Pain".

In chapter one he starts with "Not many years ago when I was an atheist, if anyone had asked me, 'Why do you not believe in God?' .... and he went on to point to the universe we live in ... the greatest part consists of empty space ... Earth herself existed without life for millions of years and may exist for millions more when life has left her ... it is so arranged that all the forms of it can live only by preying on one another ... the creatures cause pain by being born, and live by inflicting pain, and in pain they mostly die ... in...Man... reason (appears) .. (which) ... enables men by a hundred ingenious contrivances to inflict a great deal more pain than they otherwise could have done on one another and on the irrational creatures... their history is largely a record of crime, war, disease and terror... etc.

But then he did a volte face. "There was one question which I never dreamed of raising. I never noticed that the very strength and facility of the pessimists' case at once poses us a problem. If the unverse is so bad, or even half so bad, how on earth did human beings ever come to attribute it to the activity of a wise and good Creator? Men are fools perhaps; but hardly so foolish as that. The direct inference from white to black, from evil flower to virtuous root, from senseless work to a workman infinitely wise, staggers belief. The spectacle of the universe as revealed by experience can never have been the ground of religion: it must always have been something in spite of which religion, acquired from a different source, was held."

Any thoughts on how this volte farce took place - the belief in a wise and good Creator when the universe and human society itself shouts the complete opposite?

When the Black Death was killing off half of (Christian) Europe for example, did God's wisdom and love shine forth?

we know why .... "an enemy has done this" ... it's not about "religion" .... it's about a relationship with Jesus. It's about Love. God is Love.

Yes there are tragedies and pain in this world ... because we live in a fallen sinful world ... and sin is the cause of all this. We also know that one day God is going to restore everything back to perfection and that Jesus has overcome all of it ... and we rest in that and look forward to His return. No matter what happens... no matter what we may endure ... God has got this !!!

 

[Fervent]

There are a lot of people He didn't speak to, so why should they think He is benevolent?

In a word: hope. The question of God's benevolence is a separate one from His existence, and if we believe Him to be there then we can only hope that He is as good as He has told those He spoke to directly.

But that's a distraction from Lewis' argument, which is to point out that if we accept the premises of the problem of suffering then there is a great mystery how such a being came to be believed in in the first place. It's one thing to believe in gods that are capricious and self-centered just like human beings, but a whole different ball game to believe in an all-good Creator. So if the world is really as bad as those who pessimistically raise the problem of pain as a reason for skepticism believe, how did the belief in such a God come to be in the first place?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The question has been and is: Is God in Control of Everything?
The obvious answer is no. Look around. Obvious.
Can He? Of course.

 

[NBB]

God is good, is all lies and defamation, that he is responsible for the suffering of people,
"God doesn't like or find pleasure in the suffering of man"
You could be alone without God or his help in this life.
Or you can have Him and his help and backup, and his will that 'Is pleasant and nice" it says.
Is always worth it to fight for the faith and not question God, even if you end up like Job with several calamities when you were a child of God,
"Look the example of Job, that in the end God is merciful and compassionate"
Having the Holy spirit is the meaning of life, or you can have a hole in you without God, with your soul half dead because of sin that only God can fix.