Charlie Kirk lied about Ukraine (claiming it wasn't a democracy.. Zelensky was democratically elected) and spoke favourably about Russia. The Bible teaches that lying is a sin. Christianity teaches to defend the oppressed. Charlie Kirk's behaviour and comments directly contradicted how a 'Christian' would behave. Why aren't more Christians condemning his rhetoric?
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Charlie Kirk & Christianity
- Thread starter redraven
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com7fy8
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I do not have the actual quote of him saying that. For all I know, he meant the people in the United States have more freedom. I would have to read what he actually said, and context might help.
Also, in case he had information wrong, that is not the same as lying, on purpose.
And you have not quoted what he said about Vladimir.
Also . . . when did he say anything that you are claiming, please?? Was it during the actual war or before?
In the United States, if you accuse someone of something, the person has a right to review your evidence and have a jury evaluate it. So, you are welcome to give the actual statements . . . in context.
Because there are false witnesses, who falsely make statements about people. This is why God has the commandment not to bear false witness. Because there are people who make things up and misrepresent people.
Also, in case he had information wrong, that is not the same as lying, on purpose.
And you have not quoted what he said about Vladimir.
Also . . . when did he say anything that you are claiming, please?? Was it during the actual war or before?
In the United States, if you accuse someone of something, the person has a right to review your evidence and have a jury evaluate it. So, you are welcome to give the actual statements . . . in context.
Because there are false witnesses, who falsely make statements about people. This is why God has the commandment not to bear false witness. Because there are people who make things up and misrepresent people.
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PloverWing
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Before September 2025, Charlie Kirk wasn't someone I was paying attention to. I think I had heard his name before, but there are lots of people in the world with lots of opinions, and I don't bother arguing with all of them.
Once the murder of September 2025 occurred, the conversation became different. Charlie Kirk was a human being, and he's dead, and he shouldn't be dead. Whatever he said or didn't say during his lifetime, whatever sins he committed or virtues he aspired to, all that is now in the hands of a judge who is much wiser than I am. I wish for Mr. Kirk the same mercy that I wish for myself when my time comes.
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I don't have a horse in this race one way or the other [basically because I'm an advocate of Critical Faith----meaning that I'm an open criticizer of things I find on both the political Left and the Right],
..... so I'm just going to echo what sister @PloverWing has said above.
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Richard T
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I am not saying I agree or disagree with Kirk, but my point is that some things are not factual but rather a judgment call that is subjective. Here's some evidence that points to my conclusion.
Is Ukraine a democracy? The war has led to some curtailment of rights and suspended voting. Ukraine: Country Profile
Others list it as an unstable, or an "aspiring" democracy. https://www.chathamhouse.org/2023/11/democracy-ukraine
True democracy is hard to come by. The U.S. does not always have it. Why? Because the political parties select candidates in part by voting but they also select delegates through other means. Money also tilts elections, which might seem fair but is it a democracy when most often the one with the most money wins an election?
Here is a document even asserting the USA is heading toward authoritarian rule. US ‘on a trajectory’ toward authoritarian rule, ex-officials warn
Now I doubt that Kirk would agree with this but democracy is rather fragile, it is never constant and there is no exact litmus test as to what would make a nation fully democratic. Not to mention there are different types of democracy.
I am not sure what he said favorably about Russia. Perhaps like many he was mirroring Trump? Even I could say some good things about Russia like it has lower debt to GDP than the USA, and it has a maximum individual tax rate of 22% vs the USA of 37%.
Is Ukraine a democracy? The war has led to some curtailment of rights and suspended voting. Ukraine: Country Profile
Others list it as an unstable, or an "aspiring" democracy. https://www.chathamhouse.org/2023/11/democracy-ukraine
True democracy is hard to come by. The U.S. does not always have it. Why? Because the political parties select candidates in part by voting but they also select delegates through other means. Money also tilts elections, which might seem fair but is it a democracy when most often the one with the most money wins an election?
Here is a document even asserting the USA is heading toward authoritarian rule. US ‘on a trajectory’ toward authoritarian rule, ex-officials warn
Now I doubt that Kirk would agree with this but democracy is rather fragile, it is never constant and there is no exact litmus test as to what would make a nation fully democratic. Not to mention there are different types of democracy.
I am not sure what he said favorably about Russia. Perhaps like many he was mirroring Trump? Even I could say some good things about Russia like it has lower debt to GDP than the USA, and it has a maximum individual tax rate of 22% vs the USA of 37%.
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Here, I did your homework for you:
It's laughable that Charlie Kirk had such strong opinions on Ukrainian not being a democracy - which is objectively untrue - while being silent about the fact Russia is a dictatorship.
I view Kirk as a stain on the Christian faith. His comments around Ukraine showed that he was in over his head on international affairs.
Here is Kirk saying that Putin has shown 'extraordinary restraint':
Charlie Kirk: Putin "has shown and demonstrated some extraordinary restraint" during Ukraine invasion
The reality in Ukraine is that Ukrainian women are raped by the Russian army. Male soldiers are castrated and have their eyes gouged out by the evil Russians.
Charlie Kirk should have kept his mouth shut about Ukraine. His rhetoric about Ukraine was more Satanic than of a follower of Jesus.
Jesus preached defending the oppressed. Ukraine is being oppressed by Russia - a terrorist state - and Charlie Kirk showed more favour to Russia than he did Ukraine.
This is why I cannot take any of his 'Christianity' talk seriously. His actions and words demonstrated that he did not understand the meaning of being Christian.
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Bradskii
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You might have had more of a response had you picked someone else who is known to lie constantly. Your argument would still stand, but there'd be incontravertable proof of the sin.
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I agree that he should not have been killed. I also did not pay much attention to him. However, the fact he is now deceased does not change the fact he used Christianity as a cover for his bigoted opinions.
Defending Russia while claiming to be a Christian is basically Satanic.
I feel that Christians ought to be more responsible in condemning someone who used their faith recklessly and irresponsibly.
Silence is a form of complicity.
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Because as Christians we know none of us are perfect.
Matthew 7:3-5
New International Version
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
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