Charlie Kirk & Christianity

[redraven]

Charlie Kirk lied about Ukraine (claiming it wasn't a democracy.. Zelensky was democratically elected) and spoke favourably about Russia. The Bible teaches that lying is a sin. Christianity teaches to defend the oppressed. Charlie Kirk's behaviour and comments directly contradicted how a 'Christian' would behave. Why aren't more Christians condemning his rhetoric?

 

[com7fy8]

I do not have the actual quote of him saying that. For all I know, he meant the people in the United States have more freedom. I would have to read what he actually said, and context might help.

Also, in case he had information wrong, that is not the same as lying, on purpose.

And you have not quoted what he said about Vladimir.

Also . . . when did he say anything that you are claiming, please?? Was it during the actual war or before?

In the United States, if you accuse someone of something, the person has a right to review your evidence and have a jury evaluate it. So, you are welcome to give the actual statements . . . in context.

Because there are false witnesses, who falsely make statements about people. This is why God has the commandment not to bear false witness. Because there are people who make things up and misrepresent people.

 

[PloverWing]

Why aren't more Christians condemning his rhetoric?

Before September 2025, Charlie Kirk wasn't someone I was paying attention to. I think I had heard his name before, but there are lots of people in the world with lots of opinions, and I don't bother arguing with all of them.

Once the murder of September 2025 occurred, the conversation became different. Charlie Kirk was a human being, and he's dead, and he shouldn't be dead. Whatever he said or didn't say during his lifetime, whatever sins he committed or virtues he aspired to, all that is now in the hands of a judge who is much wiser than I am. I wish for Mr. Kirk the same mercy that I wish for myself when my time comes.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Charlie Kirk lied about Ukraine (claiming it wasn't a democracy.. Zelensky was democratically elected) and spoke favourably about Russia. The Bible teaches that lying is a sin. Christianity teaches to defend the oppressed. Charlie Kirk's behaviour and comments directly contradicted how a 'Christian' would behave. Why aren't more Christians condemning his rhetoric?

I don't have a horse in this race one way or the other [basically because I'm an advocate of Critical Faith----meaning that I'm an open criticizer of things I find on both the political Left and the Right],

..... so I'm just going to echo what sister @PloverWing has said above.

 

[Richard T]

I am not saying I agree or disagree with Kirk, but my point is that some things are not factual but rather a judgment call that is subjective. Here's some evidence that points to my conclusion.

Is Ukraine a democracy? The war has led to some curtailment of rights and suspended voting. Ukraine: Country Profile
Others list it as an unstable, or an "aspiring" democracy. https://www.chathamhouse.org/2023/11/democracy-ukraine

True democracy is hard to come by. The U.S. does not always have it. Why? Because the political parties select candidates in part by voting but they also select delegates through other means. Money also tilts elections, which might seem fair but is it a democracy when most often the one with the most money wins an election?

Here is a document even asserting the USA is heading toward authoritarian rule. US ‘on a trajectory’ toward authoritarian rule, ex-officials warn

Now I doubt that Kirk would agree with this but democracy is rather fragile, it is never constant and there is no exact litmus test as to what would make a nation fully democratic. Not to mention there are different types of democracy.

I am not sure what he said favorably about Russia. Perhaps like many he was mirroring Trump? Even I could say some good things about Russia like it has lower debt to GDP than the USA, and it has a maximum individual tax rate of 22% vs the USA of 37%.

 

[redraven]

I do not have the actual quote of him saying that. For all I know, he meant the people in the United States have more freedom. I would have to read what he actually said, and context might help.

Also, in case he had information wrong, that is not the same as lying, on purpose.

And you have not quoted what he said about Vladimir.

Also . . . when did he say anything that you are claiming, please?? Was it during the actual war or before?

In the United States, if you accuse someone of something, the person has a right to review your evidence and have a jury evaluate it. So, you are welcome to give the actual statements . . . in context.

Because there are false witnesses, who falsely make statements about people. This is why God has the commandment not to bear false witness. Because there are people who make things up and misrepresent people.

Here, I did your homework for you:

It's laughable that Charlie Kirk had such strong opinions on Ukrainian not being a democracy - which is objectively untrue - while being silent about the fact Russia is a dictatorship.

I view Kirk as a stain on the Christian faith. His comments around Ukraine showed that he was in over his head on international affairs.

Here is Kirk saying that Putin has shown 'extraordinary restraint':
Charlie Kirk: Putin "has shown and demonstrated some extraordinary restraint" during Ukraine invasion

The reality in Ukraine is that Ukrainian women are raped by the Russian army. Male soldiers are castrated and have their eyes gouged out by the evil Russians.

Charlie Kirk should have kept his mouth shut about Ukraine. His rhetoric about Ukraine was more Satanic than of a follower of Jesus.

Jesus preached defending the oppressed. Ukraine is being oppressed by Russia - a terrorist state - and Charlie Kirk showed more favour to Russia than he did Ukraine.

This is why I cannot take any of his 'Christianity' talk seriously. His actions and words demonstrated that he did not understand the meaning of being Christian.

 

[Bradskii]

Charlie Kirk lied...

You might have had more of a response had you picked someone else who is known to lie constantly. Your argument would still stand, but there'd be incontravertable proof of the sin.

 

[redraven]

Before September 2025, Charlie Kirk wasn't someone I was paying attention to. I think I had heard his name before, but there are lots of people in the world with lots of opinions, and I don't bother arguing with all of them.

Once the murder of September 2025 occurred, the conversation became different. Charlie Kirk was a human being, and he's dead, and he shouldn't be dead. Whatever he said or didn't say during his lifetime, whatever sins he committed or virtues he aspired to, all that is now in the hands of a judge who is much wiser than I am. I wish for Mr. Kirk the same mercy that I wish for myself when my time comes.

I agree that he should not have been killed. I also did not pay much attention to him. However, the fact he is now deceased does not change the fact he used Christianity as a cover for his bigoted opinions.

Defending Russia while claiming to be a Christian is basically Satanic.

I feel that Christians ought to be more responsible in condemning someone who used their faith recklessly and irresponsibly.

Silence is a form of complicity.

 

[redraven]

You might have had more of a response had you picked someone else who is known to lie constantly. Your argument would still stand, but there'd be incontravertable proof of the sin.

Donald Trump

 

[Bradskii]

Donald Trump

Well, who you suggest is up to you...

 

[eleos1954]

Charlie Kirk lied about Ukraine (claiming it wasn't a democracy.. Zelensky was democratically elected) and spoke favourably about Russia. The Bible teaches that lying is a sin. Christianity teaches to defend the oppressed. Charlie Kirk's behaviour and comments directly contradicted how a 'Christian' would behave. Why aren't more Christians condemning his rhetoric?

Because as Christians we know none of us are perfect.

Matthew 7:3-5
New International Version​

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

 

[com7fy8]

It's laughable that Charlie Kirk had such strong opinions on Ukrainian not being a democracy - which is objectively untrue - while being silent about the fact Russia is a dictatorship.

It looks like he is saying he knows Ukraine is a democracy but Zelinski has not allowed an election during the war and he is saying that is what is undemocratic.

So, though Ukraine is a democracy, it now is not a functional democracy, I see he is saying.

And even if he did not say Russia is undemocratic, that was not what they were discussing. And he did say Russia is "worse", though Ukraine is also bad . . . including having a major corruption problem that kept them from being able to join NATO.

 

[Bradskii]

It looks like he is saying he knows Ukraine is a democracy but Zelinski has not allowed an election during the war and he is saying that is what is undemocratic.

Just the opposite. He is constitutionally not allowed to call an election when his country is at war.

I assume that you didn't know that.

 

[Larniavc]

Charlie Kirk lied about Ukraine (claiming it wasn't a democracy.. Zelensky was democratically elected) and spoke favourably about Russia. The Bible teaches that lying is a sin. Christianity teaches to defend the oppressed. Charlie Kirk's behaviour and comments directly contradicted how a 'Christian' would behave. Why aren't more Christians condemning his rhetoric?

That’s the atheists job it seems.

 

[Larniavc]

So, though Ukraine is a democracy, it now is not a functional democracy, I see he is saying.

Do you know what the Ukrainian Constitution says about war time elections?

 

[Hawkins]

Charlie Kirk lied about Ukraine (claiming it wasn't a democracy.. Zelensky was democratically elected) and spoke favourably about Russia. The Bible teaches that lying is a sin. Christianity teaches to defend the oppressed. Charlie Kirk's behaviour and comments directly contradicted how a 'Christian' would behave. Why aren't more Christians condemning his rhetoric?

Politics is as simple as it superficially display. Democracy is a system but also employed as a tool for imperialism. It's an expression of great white domination and supremacy. Democracy as a system, its success is based on people/citizens performance. Democracy can be successful only when rule of law can be implemented, which subsequently relies on how well people/citizens are educated to be law-abiding. Impealism is force this system to a people who are not prepared, without rule of law and without law-abiding citizens, in order to screw them up. It is used as a weapon against those countries not yet civilized as the West does. It is an ideology artificially standardize to take imperial advantage.

In terms of human societies, there's not a "must be correct social system". To say Russia must be ideologically incorrect is almost racism. True democracy will not be a full success in Russia until most of its citizens are law-abiding to achieve the rule of law. The effect of implementing democracy to a country which is without the rule of law would actually weaken the country and making it incorrectable. That's actually why China is a succes, when rule of law achievement is taken into account. In a nutshell, if a people is up to a standard of civilization and is with rule of law, democracy as a social system can thus be implemented successfully. Without this condition but to force it to implement democracy is to serve the purpose of keeping it weak. While it is actually white supremacy behind the scene when a country is forced into a democracy, before rule of law is achieved by its people.

Now who defines China and Russia must be the bad guys? It is the educated sense from imperial white supremacy. The actual difference is that the people of China and Russia don't have true rule of law, this needs to be backed by law-abiding citizens and as a result of education. The West is actually getting worse from this perspective. Are US citizens are still considered as law-abiding, is rule of law still solid in the US? At least it's not as good as before, in my opinion. "You must implement democracy or else you must be a bad guy" is just another form of white supremacy.

China actually tried to implement a republic/democracy back in 1912. The price is high. It turned out to be a full scale civil war resulting in today's communist China, and is at the cost of 50 million death toll (including those slaughtered during the Japan invasion by taking advantagle of China's civil unrest).

 

[High Fidelity]

I think he did some good and some bad. However I think he's done more for our faith than most of us here would in 100 lifetimes.

 

[Niels]

Charlie Kirk lied about Ukraine (claiming it wasn't a democracy.. Zelensky was democratically elected) and spoke favourably about Russia. The Bible teaches that lying is a sin. Christianity teaches to defend the oppressed. Charlie Kirk's behaviour and comments directly contradicted how a 'Christian' would behave. Why aren't more Christians condemning his rhetoric?

Because they're not paying attention. That said, I wouldn't call him a liar. It's probably more accurate to say that he was wrong. People hold various political opinions and are often mistaken about things.

That said, Charlie Kirk was a political figure. Although he was a professed Christian, his faith was entwined with the MAGA movement. MAGA views Russia favorably, so it makes sense that he would too.