Evolution conflict and division

[Job 33:6]

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Strange, that so many people worship a God or believe the testimony of a book which states that God Himself said the above words, while basically believing the testimony to be a lie.

Genesis 1:1-2 NRSVUE
1 When God began to create the heavens and the earth, 2 the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.

The Bible doesn't say how long the earth was formless and empty before God began to create it in those 6 days. Only that it was so when God began to create it by giving it form.

 

[Amo2]

Genesis 1:1-2 NRSVUE
1 When God began to create the heavens and the earth, 2 the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.

The Bible doesn't say how long the earth was formless and empty before God began to create it in those 6 days. Only that it was so when God began to create it by giving it form.

Why would or do people refer to something that was formless and empty, as a planet called earth? That which we presently refer to as planets are not formless and empty. No, but there was no earth until God created or formed it, according to scripture. Nor of course does the fourth commandment address any of that. It simply states that the creation transpired in six days, and God rested the seventh, and correspondingly intends that His chosen people shall do so as well. In commemoration of the creation. This is what so many do not believe, while worshipping the God who spoke and wrote the fourth commandment, claiming to have done exactly what they choose not to believe. I just do not understand why those who do not believe what He said, don't just choose another God. Although I do suppose, that they already have. They just still want to believe many other portions of the same bible the Lord of the Sabbath inspired, just not certain things He said or taught. So be it.

 

[Job 33:6]

Why would or do people refer to something that was formless and empty, as a planet called earth?

That's what the Bible says. The earth was formless and void. This is not mans word, it is God's word.

Genesis 1:2 KJV
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

I'm sure that you've read this passage before.

That which we presently refer to as planets are not formless and empty.

I would say that they are. For example, if you look at Mars. Do you see any life there? It is empty or bohu. Any cities or buildings or anything of any worth? It is tohu, formless.

In Genesis on days 4,5, and 6, God is filling the earth with life so that it is no longer bohu, or empty.

And in days 1,2, and 3 God is organizing, separating, and ordering the cosmos. Separating waters from waters, gathering waters, etc. bringing form to that which was formless.

So that by the end of Genesis it says:

Genesis 2:1 KJV
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Genesis 2:1 NRSV
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all their multitude.

Genesis 2:1 CEB
[1] The heavens and the earth and all who live in them were completed.

The heavens and the earth were finished (tohu).
And all the host/array/life of them (bohu).

Bohu is about life, hosts, array or multitudes. It's not about physical matter. As the Bible explains.

The earth was empty, like a desert. No life. Not empty in the sense as though there were no matter present. But empty in meaning and value and purpose and life.

It is bohu, or empty. There is nothing there.

And tohu, formless. No structure, no order, no meaning or purpose. It is nothing. Desolation. Emptiness. Wasteland.

These are common translations of the Hebrew word tohu throughout the Bible.

 

[Amo2]

That's what the Bible says. The earth was formless and void. This is not mans word, it is God's word.

Genesis 1:2 KJV
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

I'm sure that you've read this passage before.


I would say that they are. For example, if you look at Mars. Do you see any life there? It is empty or bohu. Any cities or buildings or anything of any worth? It is tohu, formless.

In Genesis on days 4,5, and 6, God is filling the earth with life so that it is no longer bohu, or empty.

And in days 1,2, and 3 God is organizing, separating, and ordering the cosmos. Separating waters from waters, gathering waters, etc. bringing form to that which was formless.

So that by the end of Genesis it says:

Genesis 2:1 KJV
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Genesis 2:1 NRSV
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all their multitude.

Genesis 2:1 CEB
[1] The heavens and the earth and all who live in them were completed.

The heavens and the earth were finished (tohu).
And all the host/array/life of them (bohu).

Bohu is about life, hosts, array or multitudes. It's not about physical matter. As the Bible explains.

The earth was empty, like a desert. No life. Not empty in the sense as though there were no matter present. But empty in meaning and value and purpose and life.
View attachment 371327

It is bohu, or empty. There is nothing there.

And tohu, formless. No structure, no order, no meaning or purpose. It is nothing. Desolation. Emptiness. Wasteland.

These are common translations of the Hebrew word tohu throughout the Bible.

Definition of FORMLESS

having no regular form or shape; lacking order or arrangement; having no physical existence… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

form·less
1 : having no regular form or shape


2 : lacking order or arrangement


3 : having no physical existence

The planets are globe shaped, spherical, round. They have shape, and substance, as your picture above is filled with sand, so they are composed of many different materials, liquids, and gasses.

Strong's Hebrew Lexicon Search Results​

Search results for "8414":
8414 tohuw to'-hoo from an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; figuratively, a worthless thing; adverbially, in vain:--confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.

Search results for "922":
922 bohuw bo'-hoo from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin:--emptiness, void.

Condensed Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew Lexicon or Thayer's Greek Lexicon​

8414

1. formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness
   1. formlessness (of primeval earth)
      1. nothingness, empty space
   2. that which is empty or unreal (of idols) (fig)
   3. wasteland, wilderness (of solitary places)
   4. place of chaos
   5. vanity

922

1. emptiness, void, waste

Make what you wish of course, from the above, as you choose to understand it. As I and others do as well, as it is to vague for any of us to prove to mean what we may each define or envision it as. In any case, scripture and God declare that He changed it from whatever exactly it was then, into a world with far more abundant and vibrant than it is at this day, in six days. Filled with much larger creatures, plants, and variety than we see today.

 

[Amo2]

More AI confessions regarding evolutionist consensus "science" over and above objective science. This one regarding dinosaur soft tissues.

 

[Amo2]

According to the video at the above link, Darwin would deny his own theory if he were around today.

 

[Job 33:6]

Definition of FORMLESS

having no regular form or shape; lacking order or arrangement; having no physical existence… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

The planets are globe shaped, spherical, round. They have shape, and substance, as your picture above is filled with sand, so they are composed of many different materials, liquids, and gasses.

In Genesis, the earth is formless. This isn't debatable.

Make what you wish of course, from the above, as you choose to understand it. As I and others do as well, as it is to vague for any of us to prove to mean what we may each define or envision it as. In any case, scripture and God declare that He changed it from whatever exactly it was then, into a world with far more abundant and vibrant than it is at this day, in six days. Filled with much larger creatures, plants, and variety than we see today.

And as noted, the text doesn't state how long the earth was formless before God began to create it.

Genesis 1:1-2 CEB
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth— [2] the earth was without shape or form, it was dark over the deep sea, and God’s wind swept over the waters—

 

[Platte]

Macro evolution or any simiar idea is simply a made up idea...its not Biblical in any sense. And certainly could not have occured in the 6000 years since Creation....so not sure why any Christian would even think about it seriously.

 

[Platte]

And as noted, the text doesn't state how long the earth was formless before God began to create it.

Of course it does

 

[Job 33:6]

Of course it does

Genesis 1:1-2 CEB
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth— [2] the earth was without shape or form, it was dark over the deep sea, and God’s wind swept over the waters—

No it doesn't. It simply notes that it was formless when God began to create it.

Genesis 1:1-2 NRSV
[1] In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.

Genesis 1:1-2 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.

Genesis 1:1-2 LEB
[1] In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth— [2] Now the earth was formless and empty, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

Now as in, at that moment.

Genesis 1:1-2 NABRE
[1] In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth—[2] and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters—

Genesis 1:1-2 YLT98
[1] In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth — [2] the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness [is] on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,

 

[River Jordan]

Macro evolution or any simiar idea is simply a made up idea

You really believe that? You really think biologists across the world just made it up, with absolutely no evidence at all? Do you believe all of us biologists for the last 100 years or so are too stupid to notice?

...its not Biblical in any sense. And certainly could not have occured in the 6000 years since Creation....so not sure why any Christian would even think about it seriously.

It's fine if you don't want to believe it because it conflicts with how you read scripture, but I don't understand why you feel the need to accuse countless people, many of whom are Christians, of what would have to be history's biggest fraud and conspiracy.

 

[sfs]

You really believe that? You really think biologists across the world just made it up

One could argue that all ideas are made up, of course -- it's just that some made-up ideas turn out to accurate descriptions of reality. Evolution turns out to be one of them.

 

[Platte]

Genesis 1:1-2 CEB
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth— [2] the earth was without shape or form, it was dark over the deep sea, and God’s wind swept over the waters—

No it doesn't. It simply notes that it was formless when God began to create it.

Genesis 1:1-2 NRSV
[1] In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.

Genesis 1:1-2 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.

Genesis 1:1-2 LEB
[1] In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth— [2] Now the earth was formless and empty, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

Now as in, at that moment.

Genesis 1:1-2 NABRE
[1] In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth—[2] and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters—

Genesis 1:1-2 YLT98
[1] In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth — [2] the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness [is] on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Genesis 1:1-5 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. An | King James Version (KJV) | Downlo

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. An

bible.com

 

[o_mlly]

Macro evolution or any simiar idea is simply a made up idea...

Yes.

Start at ~ 30:00 minutes in on the video below to see Tour explain the "Just So" stories used by biologists to explain modern evo theory.

 

[River Jordan]

One could argue that all ideas are made up, of course -- it's just that some made-up ideas turn out to accurate descriptions of reality. Evolution turns out to be one of them.

I think it's pretty clear what was meant. Apparently he thinks evolutionary biologists go into work and do nothing but sit around imagining things all day.

 

[River Jordan]

Yes.

Start at ~ 30:00 minutes in on the video below to see Tour explain the "Just So" stories used by biologists to explain modern evo theory.

The very first claim he makes is wrong. He says that the justification for saying humans are related to chimps is because we share 99.5% of their DNA. That's not accurate.

It's not mere similarity that shows our relatedness. Instead it's both how similar we are relative to all other taxa (both chimps and humans are closer to each other than to any other species' genome no matter how you measure) and the specific types of genetic sequences we share (namely genetic errors such as pseudogenes or genetic parasites).

I learned that level of evolutionary biology as an undergrad. That Dr. Tour doesn't know such basic facts removes him from the category of people who are qualified to critique evolutionary biology. That's probably why he doesn't present his arguments in actual scientific settings and instead limits them to YT videos, where anything goes.

 

[Platte]

You really believe that? You really think biologists across the world just made it up, with absolutely no evidence at all? Do you believe all of us biologists for the last 100 years or so are too stupid to notice?

ahhh...yeah thats what it is...is all made up.
Making something up - and then finding evidence that may support it - is not Discovery

Discovering something is much different.

Macro Evolution is not something we discovered...we made it up - and then looked for evidence to support it.

We are still looking for evidence to support it.

That is not science.

It's fine if you don't want to believe it because it conflicts with how you read scripture, but I don't understand why you feel the need to accuse countless people, many of whom are Christians, of what would have to be history's biggest fraud and conspiracy.

I don't understand how anyone who is a Christian and belives in the Bible could even consider Evolution based on the fact they we have the truth in the Bible - an amazing account of how this all became - Creation.

 

[River Jordan]

Making something up - and then finding evidence that may support it - is not Discovery

That's the scientific process. You see something, you "make up" a hypothesis to explain it, then you collect data (via experiments, field work, etc.) to see if your hypothesis is accurate.

Macro Evolution is not something we discovered...we made it up - and then looked for evidence to support it.

We are still looking for evidence to support it.

That's just wrong. Microevolution is evolution within a species and macroevolution is the evolution of new species. Both have been and continue to be directly observed and studied.

I don't understand how anyone who is a Christian and belives in the Bible could even consider Evolution based on the fact they we have the truth in the Bible - an amazing account of how this all became - Creation.

Because I cannot tie my faith to denial of the reality of God's creation. I don't know why God would create a world where we see evolution happening all the time and then expect us to deny it.

 

[Job 33:6]

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Genesis 1:1-5 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. An | King James Version (KJV) | Downlo

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. An

bible.com

I don't deny this. But the fact of the matter is, you deny all the translations that I've shared above. The second sentence in particular begins with "And" which is to say, it is not a result of creation but rather is part of the initial state that is to be created over 6 days. Creation is not done in verse 1. It is in 6 days.