BUSTED - 12 False theories refuted:

[keras]

1 Timothy 6:12 - take hold of the eternal life which you received .......

Where is Timothy now? If he did actually become immortal then, why did he remain on earth as Pauls helper?
All of your "proofs', can be seen for what they are; the Promise of becoming immortal at the final Judgment.

Our lives are; to God, all about testing and the choices we make.
He has set up our world in a very clever way, so we all can choose our path in life. Basically; those who decide to ignore the plain facts of Creation and live the hedonistic lifestyle, will be discarded at the final Judgment, but those who do acknowledge God, keep His Commandments and believe in Jesus, will be given Eternal life at the GWT Judgment, Revelation 20:11-15, Revelation 21:1-7

 

[keras]

Our Hope and our Destiny:
The Prophetic Word tells us how the Lord will save and protect His people during His terrible Day of wrath, the soon to happen Sixth Seal punishment of the ungodly peoples and the reset of our civilization.
Then those who kept strong in their faith will be gathered and will migrate into all of the holy Land. Psalms 107, Ezekiel 34:11-16 and Isaiah 66:18b-21, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:24-26, are some of the best prophesies about this.

We Christians are the Lord's people, His chosen; John 15:18, 1 Peter 2:8-10, and we are the people; the nation, who bear the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43.
We will, in the holy Land be His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8, Acts 13:47, Ezekiel 39:27
Basically there is no need for anyone, other than the 2 Witnesses to go to heaven, Revelation 11:12, and they do not stay there, as Jesus Returns just then and they are resurrected along with all the rest of the GT martyrs. Revelation 20:4

The whole idea of a rapture removal of Christians to heaven, is not part of God's plan for His people. We are made to live on earth, God has angels in heaven.
Therefore, a body change is not necessary or logical, before the final wrap up after the Millennium and only then will all those whose names are written in the Book of Life, receive immortality and be with God for Eternity, when God and therefore; heaven will be on the new earth. Revelation 21:1-4

 

[Strong in Him]

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[Strong in Him]

Where is Timothy now? If he did actually become immortal then, why did he remain on earth as Pauls helper?

Having eternal life is not the same as having immortality - not to me, anyway.
I have eternal life. Meaning that I am no longer spiritually dead and separated from God. If my body were to die tonight, I am reconciled to God so I will live with him forever.
No one's body lives forever.

All of your "proofs', can be seen for what they are; the Promise of becoming immortal at the final Judgment.

A number of the verses I quoted said that whoever believes, has - present tense - eternal life.

Our lives are; to God, all about testing and the choices we make.

Our lives, to God, are precious because he made us - and every human being - in his image.

He has set up our world in a very clever way, so we all can choose our path in life.

I agree that he gives us the ability to choose.
This isn't because he has "set the world up in a clever way" - it's an ability he has given to us. God chooses, and we are made in his image, so we can choose too.

but those who do acknowledge God, keep His Commandments and believe in Jesus, will be given Eternal life

Scripture says that those who believe in Jesus have eternal life.
We don't have to go through life thinking, "have I done enough/achieved enough/believed enough to be given eternal life?" That is how unbelievers think - "I've lived a decent life, surely I will be accepted in heaven?"
Christian assurance is knowing that we belong to the Shepherd, that we are God's child and that nothing can snatch us from his hand nor separate us from his love.

 

[keras]

We don't have to go through life thinking, "have I done enough/achieved enough/believed enough to be given eternal life?"

But we do have to go thru life as a righteous, faithful believer. We must pass thru many tests as 1 Peter 4:12 says.
Our name CAN be erased from the Book of Life. It IS possible to lose your Salvation. Psalms 69:28. OSAS is not true.

I know of several people who were converted, very sincerely, but fell away. back to their old unrighteous and criminal ways. They are doubly guilty, and their fate is annihilation.

 

[Strong in Him]

But we do have to go thru life as a righteous, faithful believer.

Of course. But not one who is constantly fearful and thinking, "I may not have done enough to be saved".
Nothing can snatch us from God's hand.

We must pass thru many tests as 1 Peter 4:12 says.

Peter was writing to Christians who were facing literal persecution, not Christians who may face temptation, or who may be doubting God due to illness, unemployment or anything else.

Our name CAN be erased from the Book of Life.

So God can save someone through his Son, send his Spirit to live in that person, make them his child and change them into Jesus' image and likeness, 2 Corinthians 3:18, then change his mind and "un-save" us?
I don't believe that. Psalm 69:28 is the Psalmist expressing a wish that certain people be blotted out of the book of life - not God promising that they will be.

OSAS is not true.

It's not true because people still have free will. A Christian can turn away from God - though to be honest, if someone truly knows his love and blessings, I don't know why they would. If they DO turn away, they can choose not to repent and turn back. Though I believe God won't give up on them until death, when they will not be able to turn back. Even then, he knows our hearts and would know whether such people deliberately rejected him, or just became lost sheep.
OSAS is true because no one can snatch us from our Father's hand, John 10:29 nor separate us from his love, Romans 8:38-39.

I know of several people who were converted, very sincerely, but fell away. back to their old unrighteous and criminal ways.

That is very sad.

They are doubly guilty, and their fate is annihilation.

I prefer to leave that judgement to God. Only he knows whether they deliberately rejected him or turned away due to disappointments, suffering, or difficulties in this life. If they are still alive, the Spirit can still reach them and there is hope.

Unbelievers are not annihilated.

 

[keras]

Of course. But not one who is constantly fearful and thinking, "I may not have done enough to be saved".
Nothing can snatch us from God's hand.

The way anyone loses their Salvation, is by deliberate sinning. This is quite easy and there are plenty of examples.

Peter was writing to Christians who were facing literal persecution,

1 Peter 4:12 said... the fiery trial which is to test you..... 1 Corinthians 3:13
Not the usual temptations we all face. Peter was referring to the forthcoming terrible Day of Judgment, 2 Peter 3:7, the Sixth Seal,- tis generations great test of faith and trust in the Lords protection, which will decide our worthiness to be with Jesus in the Promised Land. Romans 9:24-26

So God can save someone through his Son, send his Spirit to live in that person, make them his child and change them into Jesus' image and likeness, 2 Corinthians 3:18, then change his mind and "un-save" us?

We have not yet received those gifts in their fullness.

I don't believe that. Psalm 69:28 is the Psalmist expressing a wish that certain people be blotted out of the book of life - not God promising that they will be.

Exodus 32:33 The Lord said; Whosoever sins against Me, I shall blot out of the Book of Life.
You need to know your Bible better! [ I did not use a search to find this truth]

It's not true because people still have free will. A Christian can turn away from God - though to be honest, if someone truly knows his love and blessings, I don't know why they would. If they DO turn away, they can choose not to repent and turn back. Though I believe God won't give up on them until death, when they will not be able to turn back. Even then, he knows our hearts and would know whether such people deliberately rejected him, or just became lost sheep.
OSAS is true because no one can snatch us from our Father's hand, John 10:29 nor separate us from his love, Romans 8:38-39.

Very confusing!
Satan, - like a roaring lion....has plenty of tricks to get people to do the wrong thing. One of his best lies is the 'rapture to heaven of the Church'. This false theory has deceived millions and when this great test comes and they remain earthbound, many will renounce God.

Unbelievers are not annihilated.

Is being thrown into the Lake of fire for Eternity;= forever separated from God; not annihilation? Revelation 20:14-15

 

[Strong in Him]

The way anyone loses their Salvation, is by deliberate sinning.

Peter deliberately sinned - he claimed he would never deny Jesus, and did.
Many of us deliberately sin - "through ignorance, weakness or our own deliberate fault".
I've read of Christian leaders who've sinned and fallen into temptation. Are you saying they can never be forgiven?

1 Peter 4:12 said... the fiery trial which is to test you..... 1 Corinthians 3:13
Not the usual temptations we all face.

That's what I said - they were facing physical persecution for their faith.
People have always persecuted Christians, just as Jesus said they would, John 15:20, John 16:2-3.

Peter was referring to the forthcoming terrible Day of Judgment, 2 Peter 3:7, the Sixth Seal,- tis generations great test of faith and trust in the Lords protection, which will decide our worthiness to be with Jesus in the Promised Land. Romans 9:24-26

You quoted from 1 Peter.

We have not yet received those gifts in their fullness.

We are being changed into Jesus' image and likeness - ongoing.
We are children of God, John 1:12, Romans 8:16 - present tense.

Exodus 32:33 The Lord said; Whosoever sins against Me, I shall blot out of the Book of Life.
You need to know your Bible better! [ I did not use a search to find this truth]

I do.
I also know the difference between the OT and new covenant.

Jesus taught us we should forgive 70x7 - in other words, constantly. It would have been hypocritical of him to say that if his Father condemns someone the first time they sin.
Jesus told us that if we forgive one another God will forgive us - see Lord's Prayer. He wouldn't have said that if he knew that God cut off anyone who had believed then sinned against him.
Paul told us to forgive as God, in Christ, forgave us. What does that mean; forgive once and then forever cut them off?

Satan, - like a roaring lion....has plenty of tricks to get people to do the wrong thing.

Yes, and Jesus tells us to pray for deliverance from evil - see Lord's prayer.
Paul told us to put on the armour of God.
John told us that if we sin we have someone who will intercede for us.

Is being thrown into the Lake of fire for Eternity;= forever separated from God; not annihilation? Revelation 20:14-15

No, it's living forever in the lake of fire.
(Assuming that that's what happens.)

 

[keras]

I've read of Christian leaders who've sinned and fallen into temptation. Are you saying they can never be forgiven?

God can forgive, even for things as bad as what King David did. He sincerely and contritely asked God for forgiveness.
But we must not think we get that automatically.

- they were facing physical persecution for their faith.

Persecution is not the same as the forthcoming great test of our faith by fire. The sudden and shocking disaster which wil commence all the end times things, leading up the great Day of God Almighty, Revelation 16:16, the 6th & 7th Bowls.

You quoted from 1 Peter.

What 1 Peter 4:12 says - relates to 2 Peter 3:7. Same event.

We are being changed into Jesus' image and likeness - ongoing.
We are children of God, John 1:12, Romans 8:16 - present tense.

Your imagination carries you into the realms of fantasy.
We faithful Christians are the peoples of God, scattered around the world, soon to be gathered into all of the Holy Land.

I also know the difference between the OT and new covenant.

What God said in Exodus 32:33, is an immutable fact and is never said to be repealed.

John told us that if we sin we have someone who will intercede for us.

The Lord knows our heart. True repentance and a new heart is required.

No, it's living forever in the lake of fire.

I simply do not believe that. There is no purpose served and it seems to be vindictive, not Gods nature at all.

 

[Strong in Him]

God can forgive, even for things as bad as what King David did. He sincerely and contritely asked God for forgiveness.
But we must not think we get that automatically.

Where did I say that we do?

Persecution is not the same as the forthcoming great test of our faith by fire.

Isn't it?
You don't think that a Christian might be tempted to deny their faith to save their life, believing that they will be able to repent again after the danger is past?
That happened even in NT times - that's why the book of Hebrews was written.

What 1 Peter 4:12 says - relates to 2 Peter 3:7. Same event.

It's your interpretation that, "the fiery ordeal that HAS come upon you" is the same as "the heavens and earth are reserved for fire."
The word "fire" is in both verses; that does not make them the same event.

Your imagination carries you into the realms of fantasy.
We faithful Christians are the peoples of God, scattered around the world, soon to be gathered into all of the Holy Land.

Which bit is "in the realms of fantasy" - the Holy Spirit changing us into Jesus' image, 2 Corinthians 3:18, or the Holy Spirit confirming to us that we are children of God, Romans 8:16?

I didn't say anything about where God's children live, only that we ARE, now, his children.

What God said in Exodus 32:33, is an immutable fact and is never said to be repealed.

In that case you must believe that God is mistaken.
Thousands of people sin, and have sinned, against him and repent afterwards - King David, Jonah, Peter, for example.

I simply do not believe that. There is no purpose served and it seems to be vindictive, not Gods nature at all.

No, I should have said that it WOULD be living forever in the lake of fire - if it happened.
God does not send people to the lake of fire/hell.

 

[keras]

Where did I say that we do?

Sins are only forgiven for those who truly repent and change their ways.
If they sin again, God may not forgive again.

Isn't it?

Persecution and tribulations are ongoing. The Day of the Lords fiery wrath is a once only event.
I have warned many times about this, now very soon to happen; sudden and shocking worldwide disaster, Prophesied in over 100 scriptures, but people seem unable to comprehend it.
Isaiah 66:15-17 is one of the best Prophesies about it,- Be assured- it will happen and we must stand firm in our faith and trust in the Lords protection thru it. THEN, as Isaiah 66:18-21 tells us, we will gather into all of the Holy Land to prepare for the glorious Return of Jesus

It's your interpretation that, "the fiery ordeal that HAS come upon you" is the same as "the heavens and earth are reserved for fire."
The word "fire" is in both verses; that does not make them the same event.

A lot of Prophecy is in past tense, written in that way, as confirmation of its certain fulfilment. Obvious in this case, as we have yet to experience it.
As I said; there are over 100 Prophesies that mention this Day of disaster and 70 specifically mention fire as the cause of it.

Which bit is "in the realms of fantasy" - the Holy Spirit changing us into Jesus' image, 2 Corinthians 3:18, or the Holy Spirit confirming to us that we are children of God, Romans 8:16?

Only in a Spiritual way.

I didn't say anything about where God's children live

Romans 9:24-27 does tell us where the faithful children of God will live. In the very same place as ancient Israe was exiled from. Hosea 1:10-11

In that case you must believe that God is mistaken.

If you wish to continue this conversation, do not make stupid remarks.

The issue is: -Is your name Written in the Book of Life? My belief is that our names are in the BoL at birth. It can be erased, with eternal consequences.

God does not send people to the lake of fire/hell.

Seems that He does; Revelation 19:20
However; the fate of Gods enemies is to be forgotten and remembered no more.

 

[Strong in Him]

Sins are only forgiven for those who truly repent and change their ways.
If they sin again, God may not forgive again.

But he does, 1 John 1:9.
Jesus told us to forgive 70x7. It would be hypocritical of him to demand that we do something which he wasn't prepared/able to do himself.

Persecution and tribulations are ongoing. The Day of the Lords fiery wrath is a once only event.

You don't seem to understand that it is your interpretation that links 1 Peter 4:12 to "the day of the Lord" - which, by the way, is an OT concept.

I have warned many times about this, now very soon to happen; sudden and shocking worldwide disaster,

It's your interpretation only that it will happen soon.
You've been wrong once already.

but people seem unable to comprehend it.

The OT "day of the Lord" is not the same as the NT teaching about Jesus' return.

In the OT, The Day of the Lord was an event where God would act, punish all of Israel's enemies with fire and reward Israel, who were God's people. The Messiah would come, bringing the Kingdom of God.
Christians believe, and teach, that the Messiah has already come, that the Kingdom of God is here, now - though not fully. Jesus will return one day as King, definitely. But it may not be in the way that the Jews would have expected.

I am quite sure that people understand that Jesus will return - they no doubt disagree with your interpretation of when/how that will happen.

Only in a Spiritual way.

What did you think I meant?
God is Spirit.

Romans 9:24-27 does tell us where the faithful children of God will live. In the very same place as ancient Israe was exiled from. Hosea 1:10-11

But I didn't mention that.
I quoted verses to show that we are God's children if we believe in Jesus. We have this now; it's not something that happens in the future after we die.
You then started talking about where God's children will live - which is not relevant to what I said.

If you wish to continue this conversation, do not make stupid remarks.

That remark was a comment on what you said.
If God blots people's names out of the book of life when they sin how do you account for the fact that David sinned, but repented and was called a man after God's own heart? He sinned more than once.
If God blots people's names out of the book of life when they sin, Peter's name mustn't be in there - unless God wrote it in again afterwards, then blotted it out again when Peter was accused of hypocrisy.
If a Christian has their name removed from the Book of Life the first time that they sin after conversion, none of us would be here. It would also have been wrong of Jesus to tell us to forgive 70 x 7. Why should we, if God himself is unable to?

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

If God blots people's names out of the book of life when they sin how do you account for the fact that David sinned, but repented and was called a man after God's own heart? He sinned more than once.
If God blots people's names out of the book of life when they sin, Peter's name mustn't be in there - unless God wrote it in again afterwards, then blotted it out again when Peter was accused of hypocrisy.
If a Christian has their name removed from the Book of Life the first time that they sin after conversion, none of us would be here. It would also have been wrong of Jesus to tell us to forgive 70 x 7. Why should we, if God himself is unable to?

Exactly. Blot, write back in again, reblot, rinse and repeat

There is a much shorter track through this morass of scriptural technicalities.

Sin are simply "not counted" against people, per 2 Cor. 5:19 for example.

But sins are counted against the devil and his messengers who happen to operate "in people"

It's such a critical point, but unfortunately nearly always overlooked, because it's a present tense reality and our adversary fights against being discovered "in us." Anyone who has experienced internal/mind temptations such as Paul notes in Romans 7 "should" be able to figure out this activity is from the TEMPTER.

but alas, the tempter (and his own) has been around for long enough to keep himself on the downlow