Israel is losing Americans (support)

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

What I find acceptable or unacceptable does not change that hamas has no opposition in its territory that’s capable of removing them from power currently.

That is exactly why IDF is in Gaza. To remove Hamas from power.

But the world would rather have a terrorist governor Gaza then Israel free Gaza from terrorist organization.

 

[Desk trauma]

That is exactly why IDF is in Gaza. To remove Hamas from power.

But the world would rather have a terrorist governor Gaza then Israel free Gaza from terrorist organization.

Destroy the territory to save it.

 

[Hentenza]

Destroy the territory to save it.

No difference with what the US and allies did in Germany and Japan during WWII.

 

[Desk trauma]

No difference with what the US and allies did in Germany and Japan during WWII.

If you’re using the fire bombing of Japan to justify current military actions just put the shovel down.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Destroy the territory to save it.

That’s your opinion, nothing more.

For rest of us who support a lasting peace in middle east, we see Hamas must be removed before any peace can be achieved.

 

[Hentenza]

If you’re using the fire bombing of Japan to justify current military actions just put the shovel down.

Not justifying anything. Just showing parallel. Usually the aggressor gets the worse of the destruction so Japan and Germany got the worse of the destruction in the war while Hamas is getting the worse of the destruction now. Hamas needs to surrender. They can’t possibly win.

 

[Desk trauma]

That’s your opinion, nothing more.

For rest of us who support a lasting peace in middle east, we see Hamas must be removed before any peace can be achieved.

I would have little or no opinion on the conflict if we stopped being Israel’s stooge.

 

[rambot]

Hamas attacked Israel first on Oct. 7, 2023. If this attack would not have happened then the present war would not have happened. So make an argument based on reality.

Oh sweet lost summer child
You are a beautious wonder
innocent under the summer sun
That is always above you
So always
You need never question it's vast glory
As
You tinker
In comfort
With sand in You ginch
And orange juice on the ledge.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

I would have little or no opinion on the conflict if we stopped being Israel’s stooge.

I know very well you have no opinion about Gaza or Palestine as long as Israel withdraws from Gaza or the US ends support for Israel. This reflects the view of pro-Palestinian supporters globally.

Over the past 25 years, pro-Palestinian supporters around the world, who are currently expressing concern about the situation in Gaza, have not given any attention to these issues in previous years.

Over the past 25 years in Lebanon, more than 30,000 Palestinians have been killed. In Jordan, government presser resulted in slaughter of over 25,000 Palestinians. Similarly, Syria has witnessed the slaughter of more than 15,000 Palestinians by the Asad regime. Despite these significant numbers, international assistance has been limited.

There was neither condemnation nor concern for the inhumane treatment of the majority in this country, and no UN resolution addressed it. No universities protested, there were no demonstrations in London, and no fundraising occurred to aid the victims. The world remained silent.

Hamas won the election in Gaza 25 years ago and since then they oppressed their own citizen. They misappropriated foreign aid funds for personal gain, diverting resources intended to improve the welfare of their citizens. As a result, these actions contributed to severe poverty and substandard living conditions among the population.

The world moved on and did absolutely nothing. So yes, I know you have no opinion about Palestinian or Gaza or what happens in Palestinian or Palestinian people. Your objection is only about Isreal.

 

[BCP1928]

Not justifying anything. Just showing parallel. Usually the aggressor gets the worse of the destruction so Japan and Germany got the worse of the destruction in the war while Hamas is getting the worse of the destruction now. Hamas needs to surrender. They can’t possibly win.

Neither can Israel.

 

[Desk trauma]

Your objection is only about Isreal.

My objection is about our endless subsidizing of Israel and unquestioningly supporting them, not taking the side of Palestinians in the occupied territories or anywhere else, but don’t let minor details like my actual position get in the way of your screed.

 

[Hentenza]

Neither can Israel.

Why not?

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

My objection is about our endless subsidizing of Israel and unquestioningly supporting them, not taking the side of Palestinians in the occupied territories or anywhere else, but don’t let minor details like my actual position get in the way of your screed.

I shared this comment in another thread, but am posting it here as it is relevant to this discussion as well. Your concerns about ongoing subsidies to Israel reflect a limited perspective that does not take into account the broader geopolitical context.


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I'm unsure whether some Americans genuinely don't understand international politics and US foreign policy, or if they're being deliberately provocative when they make comments like, "Not sure why the US supports Israel, Ukraine, or defends Europe."

The United States’ support for Israel is guided primarily by the alignment of national interests rather than solely by benevolence. As the only democracy in the Middle East whose citizens substantially favor American interests, Israel plays a strategic role in regional policy. In similar fashion, U.S. investment in Ukraine—the commitment of billions of dollars—is not purely altruistic, but rooted in the perspective that an independent Ukraine contributes to American national objectives. This rationale also underpins the presence of 38 U.S. military bases across Europe. While these bases serve as a rapid response force in the event of an attack against Europe, the primary motivation for such significant investment is not sympathy, but the strategic imperative of defending key allies. Maintaining a free and democratic Europe is deemed essential to U.S. national security. Furthermore, the U.S. maintains military installations in the Philippines, Japan, South Korea, and Australia, supporting both the defense of allied states and the advancement of broader national interests.

 

[BCP1928]

Why not?

Because they have not offered anything to the Palestinians but abject surrender and permanent statelessness. The two state solution is off the table and even if it were not it would be ephemeral--as the Israeli retaking of the West Bank shows. Win lose or draw, the Palestian people will be exterminated as a people, to the complete discredit of Israel. Israel will be useless in fulfilling its original purpose as a tool of Western foreign policy and it wouldn't take much of a shift in the political climate in this country for the 14 billion yearly we were paying to keep them afloat to go away.

But I take much the same position as Desk trauma. What I see over there is a vicious nationalist insurgency being brutally suppressed, but I don't really have a dog in that fight. My concern is with US policy.

 

[Hentenza]

Because they have not offered anything to the Palestinians but abject surrender and permanent statelessness. The two state solution is off the table and even if it were not it would be ephemeral--as the Israeli retaking of the West Bank shows. Win lose or draw, the Palestian people will be exterminated as a people, to the complete discredit of Israel. Israel will be useless in fulfilling its original purpose as a tool of Western foreign policy and it wouldn't take much of a shift in the political climate in this country for the 14 billion yearly we were paying to keep them afloat to go away.

But I take much the same position as Desk trauma. What I see over there is a vicious nationalist insurgency being brutally suppressed, but I don't really have a dog in that fight. My concern is with US policy.

We’ll have to see how the negotiations that are starting today go but if Hamas remains governing Gaza then I don’t see the deal working out.

 

[BCP1928]

We’ll have to see how the negotiations that are starting today go but if Hamas remains governing Gaza then I don’t see the deal working out.

Of course HAMAS won't remain governing. Israeli policy is that there won't even be anything left to govern.

 

[DaisyDay]

Strawman

Not at all. Some people have expressed support for these things. I did not try to pretend that this was yours.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Because they have not offered anything to the Palestinians but abject surrender and permanent statelessness. The two state solution is off the table and even if it were not it would be ephemeral--as the Israeli retaking of the West Bank shows. Win lose or draw, the Palestian people will be exterminated as a people, to the complete discredit of Israel. Israel will be useless in fulfilling its original purpose as a tool of Western foreign policy and it wouldn't take much of a shift in the political climate in this country for the 14 billion yearly we were paying to keep them afloat to go away.

But I take much the same position as Desk trauma. What I see over there is a vicious nationalist insurgency being brutally suppressed, but I don't really have a dog in that fight. My concern is with US policy.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

For the past century, there have been ongoing attempts to implement a two-state solution in Palestine and Israel, but this approach has not yielded success. Responsibility for the lack of progress can be attributed to both Israelis and Palestinians, as well as various Arab nations, throughout this period. It may now be time to consider alternative solutions beyond the two-state framework. Nonetheless, the international community continues to advocate for a policy that has not produced the desired results and lacks support from many on both sides.

 

[BCP1928]

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

For the past century, there have been ongoing attempts to implement a two-state solution in Palestine and Israel, but this approach has not yielded success. Responsibility for the lack of progress can be attributed to both Israelis and Palestinians, as well as various Arab nations, throughout this period. It may now be time to consider alternative solutions beyond the two-state framework. Nonetheless, the international community continues to advocate for a policy that has not produced the desired results and lacks support from many on both sides.

What alternative solution do you suggest?

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

What alternative solution do you suggest?

I don't have a solution, but the two-state approach has repeatedly failed over the past century, so it's unreasonable to keep pursuing it.