Here’s the No. 1 fallacy on eternal security

[fhansen]

Yes, he believed God's promise of Seed (Ge 15:5, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16), which God counted as faith in Jesus Christ, which saves (Eph 2:8-9).

Except that the texts say no such thing in regard to Abraham, or in regard to the other models of faith listed in Heb 11 for that matter.

It is believing in the person and work of Christ (Ro 3:25) that forgives sin (Eph 2:8-9).
True faith always has works of obedience, but it is not the works which save (Eph 2:8-9), it is only the faith.

They're inseparable, because the justice/righteousness which produces good works necessary for salvation is inseparable and indistinguishable from the justice/righteousness received at justifcation.

 

[fhansen]

Justification is God's declaration of "not guilty," sentence of acquittal, pronouncement of remission of sin (Ro 4:25, 5:18-19) through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ (Ro 3:25), and followed by imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ (Ro 5:18-19).

No, and its been clearly shown in the past why your rendering of the Greek word for justifed is not the only possible one. Plus, your understanding conflicts with the theme running in Rom 5 to begin with.

Ro 5:12-21 summarizes the contrast of man's unrighteousness (Ro 1:18-3:20) with God's gift of imputed righteousness; i.e., justification (Ro 3:21-5:11).

Rom 5:12-21 is comparing like for like. Man became really truly unrighteous, sinful, by Adam's act-while becoming truly righteous by Jesus' act.

The imputation of Adam's sin (Ro 5:17, 18-19) applies to all those of Adam just as
the imputation of Christ's righteousness (Ro 5:18-19) applies to all those of Christ.

No, as I'm sure you know, something changed fundamentally within man at the Fall; we all fell with Adam into a state of sin, of rebellion against God, falling into a state of existence, simply, outside of and apart from Him and His will. This isn’t just a declared or imputed fall, but we really changed, for the worse, and that change, that sin, will eventually express itself in each of us when possible by our thoughts, words, and deeds. That's why it can be said that all sin, and that's why all babies eventually sin, because they already have that "fault" within them; we're born into a state of injustice. If we were only declared to be unjust/unrighteous then sin wouldn't necessarily follow inevitably. Instead, we were made unrighteoues with Adam, and, with Jesus, we're made just/righteous, carefully following the Greek wording laid out in Rom 5:19

 

[Abraham1st]

It is believing in the person and work of Christ (Ro 3:25) that forgives sin (Eph 2:8-9).
True faith always has works of obedience, but it is not the works which save (Eph 2:8-9), it is only the faith.

I hope you don't mind Clare73, that I show the scriptures so all reading can have a look at what you are quoting and talkng about.

So the summary is that all of the world had sinned, so we needed a Saviour, who would not come short of the glory of God, because God set Him forth to give forgiveness to the sinners, by giving His blood for us, which serves as remission for the sins that are past, ( from Adams transgression which passed onto us all) for God to forgive our debts done to Him, HIs righteousness declared, so we believe in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, to justify those who believe in Jesus Christ. Believing that God raised Him from the dead, and we need then, to believe in Jesus Christ being risen again from the dead, which is the work of God we are to believe in, so the works do save, but we could not do the same work and glory that Christ did in offering His body and blood, nor of God raising His only begotten Son from the dead.


Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Romans 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.




Romans 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.


John 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

John 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.




These are just to show that the faith of Jesus Christ was by love, and that is also our work of faith and labour of love.



Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

 

[Clare73]

Except that the texts say no such thing in regard to Abraham, or in regard to the other models of faith listed in Heb 11 for that matter.

They're inseparable, because the justice/righteousness which produces good works necessary for salvation is inseparable and indistinguishable from the justice/righteousness received at justifcation.

And the word of God is infallible.

It is not the works of that faith which save, it is only the faith itself. (Eph 2:8-9).

Are you disagreeing with Eph 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith. . .not by works."?

 

[fhansen]

And the word of God is infallible.

Yes, but the general readers of His word aren't so infallible.

It is not the works of that faith which save, it is only the faith itself. (Eph 2:8-9).

But not faith alone (James 2:24).

Are you disagreeing with Eph 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith. . .not by works."?

Until a person understands how faith saves, quoting verses means little.

 

[Clare73]

No, and its been clearly shown in the past why your rendering of the Greek word for justifed is not the only possible one. Plus,
your understanding conflicts with the theme running in Rom 5 to begin with.

Ro 5:1-11 deals with the fruits of righteousness.
Ro 5:12-21 deals with the imputation of Adam's sin to all those of Adam (Ro 5:17)
as the pattern (Ro 5:14)
for the imputation of Christ's righteousness to all those of Christ (Ro 5:15-21).

Feel free to Biblically demonstrate otherwise.

Rom 5:12-21 is comparing like for like. Man became really truly unrighteous, sinful, by Adam's act-while becoming truly righteous by Jesus' act.

Man became guilty by imputation of Adam's sin (Ro 5:17), just as he became righteous by imputation of Christ's righteousness (Ro 5:18-19).

 

[Clare73]

Yes, but the general readers of His word aren't so infallible.

But not faith alone (James 2:24).

Setting James against Paul (Eph 2:8-9) is never the correct way to understand Scripture.
God does not contradict himself in his holy word (2 Tim 3:16).

Until a person understands how faith saves, quoting verses means little.

That's the cart before the horse.
It's the verses that give us correct understanding, not our "understanding" that gives the verses correct meaning.

And the verses are clear that salvation is by faith alone, not by faith's necessary works (Eph 2:8-9).

That works are necessary for true faith (Ja 2:24) does not mean that the works of true faith actually save.
The necessary works are only evidence of true faith, the works are not efficacious in themselves, only the faith is efficacious (Eph 2:8-9).

 

[Abraham1st]

Man became guilty of Adam's sin by imputation (Ro 5:17), just as he became righteous by imputation of Christ's righteousness (Ro 5:18-19).

Also and may be an important part, verse 19 is also in regards to many being made sinners, as it was not just an imputation of sin from Adams disobedience to God, but it was also sinning as an example, likewise verse 19 also reveals that the obedience of Christ made many righteous. ( again as it is a parallel it is not only an imputation of sin as you are saying, it is also the opposite to how many wee sinners, to now be righteous. ( doing righteousness, or being sinners did not mean they did sin. ) Also some of Romans 8 for an extra reference.



Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were MADE SINNERS, so by the obedience of one shall many be MADE RIGHTEOUS.



Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 

[fhansen]

Setting James against Paul (Eph 2:8-9) is never the correct way to understand Scripture.
God does not contradict himself in his holy word (2 Tim 3:16).

Yes, that's the point, Paul and James don't conflict.

That's the cart before the horse.
It's the verses that give us correct understanding, not our "understanding" that gives the verses correct meaning.

Um...we must understand the verses in order to know what they mean. Pretty simple. That's why people often disagree on the meaning of verses to begin with- because they fail to understand them.

And the verses are clear that salvation is by faith alone, not by faith's necessary works (Eph 2:8-9).

The bible is quite clear that no sinners enter heaven and that we must make effort to be free from sin (holy). Reconcile those passages and you'll better understand the Christian faith, and the role of faith. And, no, being good is not guaranteed to believers, the regenerate.-the will is continously involved until the day we die in choosing good, in remaining in Him, IOW. Again, being justifed is totally inseparable from being made just. And so, the directives given in the following passage remains totally unchanged under the new covenant:

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8

Faith is the vehicle, the means, that God uses to get us there, to establish us in that place of justice/righteousness so that we can obey as we are meant to.

 

[fhansen]

Man became guilty of Adam's sin by imputation (Ro 5:17), just as he became righteous by imputation of Christ's righteousness (Ro 5:18-19).

Claire, as intelligent as you are you nonetheless seem to go out of your way to avoid logic and truth here. Consider the whole chapter, the whole letter, together. Humanity became truly guilty of possessing that sin, meaning they was as distanced from God as Adam now was in Adam's fallen state and so all men became truly and unavoidably and personally sinners, unrighteous, as a result. We all possess the same "problem" as Adam had and news stories attest to this fact daily. Jesus came to rectify that situation, to make us truly and personally righteous, as were were created to be as he reconciles us with God, restoring that state of justice, marked by communion with God, that we were created for.

 

[Abraham1st]

Setting James against Paul (Eph 2:8-9) is never the correct way to understand Scripture.
God does not contradict himself in his holy word (2 Tim 3:16).

Before Abraham had had his belief accounted as righteousness in the promises of God, Abram had faith, and had faith by obeying God. I hope you don't mind too much me including all the verses for this.



Genesis 12:1 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
4 So Abram departed, as the Lord had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

Genesis 13:12 Abram dwelled in the land of Canaan, and Lot dwelled in the cities of the plain, and pitched his tent toward Sodom.
13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the Lord exceedingly.
14 And the Lord said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
17 Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.

Hebrews 11:8 BY FAITH ABRAHAM, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, OBEYED; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 BY FAITH HE SOJOURNED IN THE LAND OF PROMISE, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.




After this Abram/Abraham, is met by Melchizedek, priest of the most high God, who blesses Abraham, ( WHO HAD THE PROMISES) and blessed God who had delivered all of Abrahams enemies into his hand. Abraham pays tithes to the King of peace. Receiving tithes of Abraham was a witness by Abraham that the King of righteousness lives.



Genesis 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Hebrews 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Hebrews 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.



We are told how to not be vain, by knowing, acknowledging, even preaching as it is exhorted to us, that unless faith has works, it is dead. Abraham had a mixture, Abraham believed in the Lord, in all that the Lord told him, whether to go to the land of promise, whether to believe in the promises, whether to believe that he would have a son born by Sarah, and when that time would be, which was accounted as righteousness. Of course that cant be the end of the testimony, because very much that same son that God gave to Abraham, had to be required to be sacrificed, and if Abraham would do that for God, which he was prepared to do and about to do, which tells us that Abraham believed God, and just as Abraham had always obeyed God, obeyed Him yet again, to receive Isaac as a figure. ( of Christ the only begotten Son of the Father from the dead.) which had to be with Abrhams faith, which was WHAT made faith PERFECT. So we add all together as told bellow, Abrahams believing in God imputed unto Abraham righteousness, and Abraham doing as God required, as we just heard, was Abraham being called the friend of God. That is the more fuller word on justification, as it is the path of faith we are to believe in and follow as WITNESSED in Romans 4:12. ( SEE BELOW FOR HOW WE ARE THE FRIENDS OF CHRIST IN THE VERY SAME WAY FOR EXTRA VERIFICATION TO ALL READING HERE.)



Romans 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but WHO ALSO WALK IN THE STEPS OF THAT FAITH OF OUR FATHER ABRAHAM, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

 

[Clare73]

I hope you don't mind Clare73, that I show the scriptures so all reading can have a look at what you are quoting and talkng about.

Thanks!

So the summary is that all of the world had sinned, so we needed a Saviour, who would not come short of the glory of God, because God set Him forth to give forgiveness to the sinners, by giving His blood for us, which serves as remission for the sins that are past, ( from Adams transgression which passed onto us all) for God to forgive our debts done to Him, HIs righteousness declared, so we believe in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, to justify those who believe in Jesus Christ. Believing that God raised Him from the dead, and we need then, to believe in Jesus Christ being risen again from the dead, which is the work of God we are to believe in, so the works do save, but we could not do the same work and glory that Christ did in offering His body and blood, nor of God raising His only begotten Son from the dead.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Romans 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Romans 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
John 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
John 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

These are just to show that the faith of Jesus Christ was by love, and that is also our work of faith and labour of love.

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

 

[Abraham1st]

Claire, as intelligent as you are you nonetheless seem to go out of your way to avoid logic and truth here. Consider the whole chapter, the whole letter, together. Humanity became truly guilty of possessing that sin, meaning they was as distanced from God as Adam now was in Adam's fallen state and so all men became truly and unavoidably and personally sinners, unrighteous, as a result. Jesus came to rectify that situation, to make us truly and personaly righteous, as were were created to be as he reconciles us with God, restoring that state of justice, marked by communion with God, that we were created for.

I think Clare may accept the scriptures, as they do a good job explaining themselves, and you are right to say that, that distance from God meant the world were sinners, and unrighteous, and yes a correction was required, to make us turn from those sins and vanities by our Lord Jesus Christ being raised up, so we believe in better, not just the sin of Adam but the death through it, to now be aware of the righteousness of Gods Son and the life that comes with it..


Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

 

[Abraham1st]

Thanks!

You are most welcome.


Philemon 1:6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.

 

[Abraham1st]

More words about eternal security...



2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
6 By pureness, by knowledge, by long suffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[Clare73]

Claire, as intelligent as you are you nonetheless seem to go out of your way to avoid logic and truth here. Consider the whole chapter, the whole letter, together. Humanity became truly guilty of possessing that sin,

We don't "become inherently guilty of possessing/inheriting someone else's sin" (Eze 18:20),
nor are we acquitted of possessing/inheriting someone else's sin that we don't possess.
Guilt of someone else's sin must be imputed to us (Ro 5:17), charged to our account,
as righteousness was imputed to Abraham (Ge 15:6), charged to his account.

Humanity became guilty of Adam's sin by imputation of Adam's sin (Ro 5:17,
the only sin that caused death between Adam and Moses, Ro 5:14, when there was no law to sin against to cause man's death, Ro 4:15), just as humanity becomes righteous by imputation of Christ's righteousness (Ro 5:18-19).

Both guilt of Adams sin and righteouness of Christ are imputed to mankind (Ro 5:18-19).

 

[Colo Millz]

Romans 5:17 has nothing to do with "imputation".

Romans 5:17 discusses infused grace rather than imputed righteousness.

 

[fhansen]

Guilt of someone else's sin must be imputed to us (Ro 5:17), charged to our account,
as righteousness was imputed to Abraham (Ge 15:6), charged to his account.

Really, how come? That's not what the text says. And Ezekiel wrote well after Adam, through whom humanity did, indeed, contract the guilt of Adam's sin as we all fell with him. They didn't commit the sin but inherited the consequences nonetheless. Unless you think you've been living in Eden all this time. And unless you think that there are some who are righteous after all. But there aren't-because we all became sinners.

 

[Abraham1st]

We don't "become inherently guilty of possessing/inheriting someone else's sin" (Eze 18:20),
nor are we acquitted of possessing/inheriting someone else's sin that we don't possess.
Guilt of someone else's sin must be imputed to us (Ro 5:17), charged to our account,
as righteousness was imputed to Abraham (Ge 15:6), charged to his account.

If we look at and remember the offence that Adam did, it came directly because of the serpent being more subtil than all beasts, who speaks to the woman, and convinces Eve to desire the fruit of the tree of knowledge, and good for food, she had no reason to not take from the tree, nor to not give to her husband, WITH HER, so the ate together. Adam answers God that the woman God gave Adam to be with him, gave him of that tree and he ate. ( with her) God then asks Eve what she had done, and she tells how the serpent ( who God had made) beguiled her and she ate.




Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Genesis 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.



God judges the serpent also, of a fight of separation between firstly, the woman and the serpent, and then also between the woman's seed ( which will be Christ, and of the serpent/those WHO ARE OF/BY HIM).

Cain is the seed of the wicked one, hating his brother, causing separation and identity of who is born after the flesh and who is of the Spirit, Cain persecutes and kills his brother Abel, and the woman is seen next in Sarah, so there is birth after the free woman, and the other seed is that born after the flesh, which is of the serpent, which continues until now, as Galatians 4:29 relates.

Jesus speaks about that beginning seed of the serpent, beginning with murder, how those ones do the lusts of their father the devil, ( those who are of the serpent) and how those of the serpents seed are abiding in no truth, because having the serpent over them, there is no truth in them. ( Job 41:34.)


1 Corinthians 8:6 But TO US there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, AND WE BY HIM.

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Galatians 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.



Next is the judgment on the woman, is the pain in conception, and of bringing forth children, ( both her seed and of the serpent) and the man ruling over the woman.

On Adam, because he listened to his wife's voice, to eat of the fruit of the tree God had commanded both of them not to eat from, then the earth is cursed. ( this curse passes onto all born afterwards as well. Cain also is cursed from the earth. Those blessed of God inherit the earth and those cursed of God are cut off. Genesis 4:11. Psalm 37:22. Isaiah 24:4-6. Zechariah 5:3.)



Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;



With the context told from the beginning and not from Ezekiel,, we can read what we are told in Romans 5, how sin entered into the world, how all men sinned then, ( because sin had come to them, sin had entered into the world) and the imputation of sin is the cursing of whoever does not continue in all of the things of the law to do them. Then as we understand from Psalms, such as are blessed of the Lord do inherit the earth, and the cursing is on them that are not blessed of the Lord. The blessing of Abraham ( and the promise of the Spirit) comes on all of them that believe, as Abraham believed in the Lord. ( this is contrary to Adam who along with Eve, did not believe in the word of the Lord, and followed after the word of the serpents subtilty.) Christ is then redemption to all those that believe, in Him being made a curse for us, even as it was written, that every one that is hanged on a tree is cursed.

We do not inherit the sin of Adam nor the righteousness of Christ in what was done on both occasions, as one gets death for all, and the other receives gifts for men/life for all, but we do inherit either obedience by belief/the obedience of faith made known to all nations of men, Romans 16:26, or the disobedience/faithlessness of the first man. ( hence why we are to not be the first man/Adam, but to be the LAST ADAM. 1 Corinthians 15:45.)

Many offences were made by all men, what was inherited was all doing offences, (as SIN WAS COME INTO THE WORLD BY ONE MAN) but now RIGHTEOUSNESS CAME INTO THE WORLD, and THE GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, ( BY ONE MAN/WHEN HE WAS COME INTO THE WORLD, A BODY HE HAD PREPARED FOR SACRIFICE FOR SINS. Hebrews 10:5.) Adam was not in the transgression, not being deceived, but the woman was deceived. Sin came by one man, and continues to all men, all men sinning and death by sin. One did no sin, and no death by sin. ( took our place on the cross and not possible to be held in death. God made Him to be sin for us, and He knew no sin as Adam and all knew, so we may be made the righteousness of God in Him. ( Acts 2:24. 2 Corinthians 5:21.) Romans 3 simply states the obvious, how that all are under sin, as it is written, there is not one righteous, none had understanding, none sought after God, for all had sinned and come short of the glory of God. ( Jesus Christ who knew no sin.) If we are of Christ He becomes us, to be holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens. ( separate from sinners as God had put that separation between the serpents seed and the woman's seed., To not touch what God has forbidden, as Adam is example of. Genesis 3:15. 2 Corinthians 6:17)



Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as BY ONE MAN SIN ENTERED INTO THE WORLD, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and THE GIFT BY GRACE, WHICH IS BY ONE MAN, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Romans 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.



Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Hebrews 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

 

[Abraham1st]

Both guilt of Adams sin and righteouness of Christ are imputed to mankind (Ro 5:18-19).

There is a lot of testimony outside of the Epistles, neither is it a testimony on its own, but it is speaking further details about what was already testified.


More than guilt of Adams sin was imputed, the offence was, and those offences continued, because sin was in the world and righteousness was not, until it was, then also more than righteousness is imputed, when righteousness came into the world, this also remained, in man, by the obedience of the same righteousness, and we are testified to be servants of one of those two, WHETHER of obedience of righteousness or of sin unto death, as sin remained with man by the offences that remain with men.


Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.