Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Vanellus]

Life for the freedom flotilla when under Israeli drone bombardment when in international waters off Crete i.e. a long way from Israel or Gaza. First main section (labelled)

 

[BCP1928]

The ship has sailed. The question was answered in 1948.

1948 only displays the power to bring it about, not the reason.

 

[DaisyDay]

The indigenous people of the other former Ottoman provinces got their own countries and eventually independence.

Except for the Kurds.

 

[BCP1928]

The challenge remains: combating terrorists while upholding humanitarian standards.

It's definitely more challenging to be a good guy than a bad guy--but didn't we know that already?

 

[BCP1928]

Except for the Kurds.

Of course not. If there is one geopolitical issue which unites all the countries of the world, it's that the Kurds should not have a homeland. I never could understand quite why, but never mind, back to the OP.

 

[Hentenza]

1948 only displays the power to bring it about, not the reason.

Actually 1948 answers the end of years of negotiations. We can go further back if you want.

 

[BCP1928]

Actually 1948 answers the end of years of negotiations. We can go further back if you want.

Those "negotiations" involved a lot of violent conflict, as I recall.

 

[Hentenza]

Those "negotiations" involved a lot of violent conflict, as I recall.

Some from both sides.

 

[Vanellus]

The question is, why should there be a Jewish state at all?

This is a question that should not be considered totally off limits

 

[Vanellus]

Of course not. If there is one geopolitical issue which unites all the countries of the world, it's that the Kurds should not have a homeland. I never could understand quite why, but never mind, back to the OP.

It might be because they are a minority in every country where they live in the region.

 

[Benaiah468]

Life for the freedom flotilla when under Israeli drone bombardment when in international waters off Crete i.e. a long way from Israel or Gaza. First main section (labelled)

The activists on the Gaza aid flotilla portray themselves as victims of Israeli aggression. Yet they had been warned that their voyage would be prevented. Meanwhile, it is becoming clear how bizarre the coalition of queer leftists and Islamic Hamas supporters is.

The organisation posted videos of drone attacks on Instagram. According to Codepink, which has representatives on the boats, they were attacked with ‘flash grenades and suspected chemicals’ while sailing near the Greek island of Crete towards the Gaza Strip. It reported at least eleven attacks. One activist said they had counted ‘15 or 16 drones’ during the night. The semi-official Greek news agency ANA reported, citing the coast guard, that a patrol boat from the European Border and Coast Guard Agency (Frontex) had investigated the incident and found no damage.

What the flotilla activists are not saying: Israel has long since offered to take the aid supplies at the Israeli port of Ashkelon and bring them to the Gaza Strip. However, the flotilla has rejected this offer.

Italian Prime Minister Meloni viewed the "flotilla" as irresponsible and criticized the activists

"I think it's cheap and irresponsible to risk one's life to bring aid to Gaza, Italian government agencies could deliver the aid to Gaza in a few hours; the risk the activists were taking was therefore completely unnecessary. This isn't a game of bocce, but a theater of war. What should we do if the 'flotilla' enters Israeli territorial waters and is attacked? Declare war on Israel?"

Meloni asked rhetorically.

Italian Defense Minister Crosetto appealed to those responsible for the "flotilla" to accept the offer, because:

"Once the ships are in Israeli waters, there's nothing we can do for them."

The activists should know what they are getting themselves into. Armed with Palestinian flags and scarves, they make little effort to refute Israel's accusations. They clearly intend to provoke Israel into taking action against them. Israel has already proven that it will not allow direct contact with supposedly humanitarian activists travelling to Gaza by sea.

It is quite obvious that whether the suffering "Palestinians" in the Gaza Strip actually receive humanitarian aid is of secondary importance to the flotilla activists. If that were the case, they would seek cooperation with the Israeli government rather than confrontation, in order to be able to deliver as much aid as possible as quickly as possible. Thunberg is not Mother Teresa, but a propagandist and self-promoter, ultimately an anti-Semitic agitator.

Her latest Instagram post proves just how crazy the former climate saint has become. On Monday, she posted a video of herself with a "Palestinian" flag. It was accompanied by wild accusations against Israel and ‘our racist people in power’ and the statement:

"We are sailing to challenge structures that cannot prevent these war crimes, not only in Gaza, but everywhere in the world. We are sailing for a world without any form of racism and oppression."

 

[rambot]

The activists on the Gaza aid flotilla portray themselves as victims of Israeli aggression. Yet they had been warned that their voyage would be prevented. Meanwhile, it is becoming clear how bizarre the coalition of queer leftists and Islamic Hamas supporters is.

I agree.

It goes to show you how deplorable the actions of the Israeli government are.

 

[Benaiah468]

I agree.

It goes to show you how deplorable the actions of the Israeli government are.

The Gaza flotilla provokes Israel and fights itself. Israel's approach is less hostile than cautious. They could stop the action by force at any time, but are holding back. The activists are speculating that, unlike Hamas terrorists, Israel will not take ruthless military action, i.e. lethal action, against them. And they can indeed assume this, because Israel does not act as inhumanely as they imply.

 

[Benaiah468]

The flotilla is a particularly striking example of Islamo-Gauchisme, i.e. the alliance between the extreme left and migrant Islamists against their common enemies: the traditional West, with Israel as its strongest bastion.

Contrary to her announcement in August, full-time BASF millionaire heiress and activist Marlene Engelhorn did not board the flotilla after all. Among other things, she said in a video statement that she wanted fewer privileged white people on board.

 

[rambot]

The Gaza flotilla provokes Israel and fights itself.

"Provoke"...from Crete?
Is it possible you actually AREN'T a victim here?

Israel's approach is less hostile than cautious. They could stop the action by force at any time, but are holding back.

What exactly is the action that is so deplorable by the way?

The activists are speculating that, unlike Hamas terrorists, Israel will not take ruthless military action, i.e. lethal action, against them.

Drone attacks....in international waters.
At some point, people will grow weery of the US and Israel ignoring international law and they will get attacked and then we'll have to hear the insufferable drivel of painting their own innocence.

And they can indeed assume this, because Israel does not act as inhumanely as they imply.

You are incorrect. They act quite inhumanely.

 

[Benaiah468]

You are incorrect. They act quite inhumanely.

Normally, when people break into countries without permission and are caught, there are criminal consequences. But last time they were deported peacefully.

There are some strange things that Western media outlets have not investigated in their reports:

How the organisers manage to buy or somehow acquire around 50 small ships and boats (including sailing yachts). That costs a lot of money, but we have always been told that this initiative does not have any generous sponsors behind it. Where did they get the money?

Among the most influential leaders are Arabic-speaking individuals whose names have not been disclosed to the public. This is strange, because this initiative was promoted by European left-wing politicians and supporters, and one would think that the leaders should be European. Among the actual leaders are people like Wael Nawar, very close to the Hamas leader in North Africa, Youssef Adman and the Tunisian scholar Hayfa Mansouri, who is said to be close to the Islamic integral movement in her country. Who decided that these Arab men should be the leaders of the flotilla?

Instead of a port in Europe, such as Catania or Athens, the leaders decided to meet in Tunis. Tunis is located in Tunisia, a completely Muslim state where Islamic fundamentalists are very strong. Such a choice is quite disturbing, as there are members of the LGBT community among the activists.

Despite the nominally left-wing nature of the initiative, a strict Muslim code was imposed on everyone on board.

The Qatari network Al Jazeera is the unofficial official television station of the initiative. Its journalists have complete freedom to move around the boats and talk to anyone, but some of them seem to be members of a Gulf state security force rather than journalists.

 

[Desk trauma]

It might be because they are a minority in every country where they live in the region.

Kind of like another ethnic group was…

 

[Hentenza]

Kind of like another ethnic group was…

Neither are getting “their” land back so move on.

 

[Benaiah468]

Kind of like another ethnic group was…

Are the "Palestinians" a fake, made-up ethnicity?

A "Palestinian" identity was only created on the 1960’s.

The "Palestinian" construct exists solely as opposition to Israel. If there was no Israel then there would be no "Palestinian" cause as the land would have been divided up between Egypt, Jordan and Syria. They are simply radically politicized Arabs/arabized people. When the Arabs lost multiple wars against Israel they created the "Palestinian" cause with the help of the Soviets to undermine the legitimacy of Israel and distort world perception of the region. Over the decades they have been able to capitalize on the brooding anti-Semitism that exists just under the surface of many societies and countries around the world and have created an anti-Zionist (really anti-Semitic) movement.

I think this statement by a member of the PLO’s Executive Council, made during an interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw is about the most authoritative statement available:

“The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.”
Interview with Zuheir Muhsin, a member of the PLO Executive Council, published in the March 31, 1977 edition of the Dutch Newspaper Trouw.

In addition, Yasser Arafat’s official biography credits him with saying

“If there is any such thing as a ‘Palestinian people’, it is I, Yasser Arafat, who created them!”

Who are we to contradict people who should actually know?

 

[Desk trauma]

Are the "Palestinians" a fake, made-up ethnicity?

A "Palestinian" identity was only created on the 1960’s.

The "Palestinian" construct exists solely as opposition to Israel. If there was no Israel then there would be no "Palestinian" cause as the land would have been divided up between Egypt, Jordan and Syria. They are simply radically politicized Arabs/arabized people. When the Arabs lost multiple wars against Israel they created the "Palestinian" cause with the help of the Soviets to undermine the legitimacy of Israel and distort world perception of the region. Over the decades they have been able to capitalize on the brooding anti-Semitism that exists just under the surface of many societies and countries around the world and have created an anti-Zionist (really anti-Semitic) movement.

I think this statement by a member of the PLO’s Executive Council, made during an interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw is about the most authoritative statement available:



In addition, Yasser Arafat’s official biography credits him with saying



Who are we to contradict people who should actually know?

No need to quote me to post the spiel you had cued up.