OSAS - I was wrong...again

[Romans 8]

When I was first saved a few years ago, I reluctantly subscribed to the doctrine of OSAS. It's a nice thought. Once you put your faith in Jesus and His finished work on the cross and resurrection, you're saved for all your sins past, present, and future. Done. But then I would listen to certain pastors, denominations, and even people's NDE's (experiences where people claim to have had direct revelation from God in dying). It shocked me to think that a "born again believer" could actually go to hell because they decided to abandon the faith, or they followed the wrong doctrines later in life, or they didn't show proper fruit and a proper repentance. I remember walking out of the Baptist church when I made my decision for Christ with conflicting thoughts recalling how the pastor informed me how one is saved; that all we need to do is believe and we will inherit eternal life quoting 1 John 5:13. He was right. But later I thought, Can it really be that simple? Emotions play on us, and we listen to the wrong "authority" or we read the wrong book, or watch the wrong video and we can find ourselves trying to please God through our bible reading or devotionals or good deeds, or even second guess our salvation altogether. Given the times we live the world is full of theological error and it's easy to get tripped up.

I found a really great resource I want to share: Andrew Farley has books and a YouTube channel. He has cleared up a lot of questions I had on many challenging verses which people often misinterpret. Andrew makes a great argument in one of his videos entitled, "What if fruit only grows in freedom?", how can we bear fruit if we're cheating on Jesus (grace) with Moses (the law).

*Edit: OSAS is true. Once we're sealed, we're sealed unto the time of redemption. Our names are written in the book of life. For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus.*

 

[d taylor]

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​

OSAS, i believe is a stupid way of putting what God gives a person when they believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

The emphasis should be on etrenal life and not salvation. As salvation in The Bible can mean more than just eternal life salvation. Which is where misinterpreting verses using the word save or salvation. has brought about this idea that salvation can be lost. If a person does not live a life of obedience or bear fruit, but that is not what those verses are actually addressing.

Example is this verse But he who endures to the end shall be saved. This verse is not addressing eternal life salvation. The Gospel of John does not state Jesus is offering people salvation, but states again and again Jesus is offering people Eternal Life through belief in Jesus.
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

A person receives God's life "Eternal Life", so eternal life is just that eternal never ending.

Free E-Book Salvation from What? A Biblical Study – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[Maria Billingsley]

When I was first saved a few years ago, I reluctantly subscribed to the doctrine of OSAS. It's a nice thought. Once you put your faith in Jesus and His finished work on the cross and resurrection, you're saved for all your sins past, present, and future. Done. But then I would listen to certain pastors, denominations, and even people's NDE's (experiences where people claim to have had direct revelation from God in dying). It shocked me to think that a "born again believer" could actually go to hell because they decided to abandon the faith, or they followed the wrong doctrines later in life, or they didn't show proper fruit and a proper repentance. I remember walking out of the Baptist church when I made my decision for Christ with conflicting thoughts recalling how the pastor informed me how one is saved; that all we need to do is believe and we will inherit eternal life quoting 1 John 5:13. He was right. But later I thought, Can it really be that simple? Emotions play on us, and we listen to the wrong "authority" or we read the wrong book, or watch the wrong video and we can find ourselves trying to please God through our bible reading or devotionals or good deeds, or even second guess our salvation altogether. Given the times we live the world is full of theological error and it's easy to get tripped up.

I found a really great resource I want to share: Andrew Farley has books and a YouTube channel. He has cleared up a lot of questions I had on many challenging verses which people often misinterpret. Andrew makes a great argument in one of his videos entitled, "What if fruit only grows in freedom?", how can we bear fruit if we're cheating on Jesus (grace) with Moses (the law).

*Edit: OSAS is true. Once we're sealed, we're sealed unto the time of redemption. Our names are written in the book of life. For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus.*

Perhaps consider watching videos on Conditional Security.
Some biblical passages used to support conditional security include:
* Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved."
* Hebrews 3:14: "For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end."
* Romans 8:12-13: "So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live."

Blessings

PS: Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.

 

[eleos1954]

When I was first saved a few years ago, I reluctantly subscribed to the doctrine of OSAS. It's a nice thought. Once you put your faith in Jesus and His finished work on the cross and resurrection, you're saved for all your sins past, present, and future. Done. But then I would listen to certain pastors, denominations, and even people's NDE's (experiences where people claim to have had direct revelation from God in dying). It shocked me to think that a "born again believer" could actually go to hell because they decided to abandon the faith, or they followed the wrong doctrines later in life, or they didn't show proper fruit and a proper repentance. I remember walking out of the Baptist church when I made my decision for Christ with conflicting thoughts recalling how the pastor informed me how one is saved; that all we need to do is believe and we will inherit eternal life quoting 1 John 5:13. He was right. But later I thought, Can it really be that simple? Emotions play on us, and we listen to the wrong "authority" or we read the wrong book, or watch the wrong video and we can find ourselves trying to please God through our bible reading or devotionals or good deeds, or even second guess our salvation altogether. Given the times we live the world is full of theological error and it's easy to get tripped up.

I found a really great resource I want to share: Andrew Farley has books and a YouTube channel. He has cleared up a lot of questions I had on many challenging verses which people often misinterpret. Andrew makes a great argument in one of his videos entitled, "What if fruit only grows in freedom?", how can we bear fruit if we're cheating on Jesus (grace) with Moses (the law).

*Edit: OSAS is true. Once we're sealed, we're sealed unto the time of redemption. Our names are written in the book of life. For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus.*

Nope ... OSAS is false

Believers can willfully choose to walk away from their faith and forfeit their relationship with God. Happens all the time my friend.

Revelation 3:5:
"He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels".

• every person who has ever been born starts with their name in the Book of Life.

• • Psalm 69:28:
    "Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous".
    
  • • Exodus 32:32:
    • Moses offers to be blotted out of God's book in place of the sinful Israelites, showcasing a self-sacrificial love for his people.

 

[ARBITER01]

Perhaps consider watching videos on Conditional Security.
Some biblical passages used to support conditional security include:
* Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved."
* Hebrews 3:14: "For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end."
* Romans 8:12-13: "So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live."

Blessings

PS: Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.

Very correct.

We have to look at the "body" of scripture.

 

[Clare73]

*Edit: OSAS is true. Once we're sealed, we're sealed unto the time of redemption. Our names are written in the book of life. For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus.*

Yes. . .and one of the ways God keeps us saved is through warnings, which the elect heed in the power of the Holy Spirit, while the non-elect not so much.

 

[lismore]

*Edit: OSAS is true. Once we're sealed, we're sealed unto the time of redemption. Our names are written in the book of life. For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus.*

Hello! I agree with Eternal Security for the believer, with caveats, however I cringe sometimes at some of the things that are said to me by 'believers' on this issue.

One person once said to me 'You can't lose your salvation so you might as well do what you want'. All your sins past present and future, also sounds a bit like a licence to rebel.

My main caveat is this, in order for a person to have eternal security they have got to be truly saved in the first place, genuinely born again. Some politically incorrect words like 'repentance' should be used. A watered down or a false gospel has no efficacy to save, sadly you don't have to go far to hear a watered down gospel message these days.

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.” (John 3:3)

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation, the old has gone and the new has come! (2 Corinthians 5:17)

'IF'

When the person is a new creation they will act in accordance with their new nature and with an attitude of gratitude for being saved. Their priority will be the Kingdom of God, they will have the desire to do what is righteous.

God Bless

 

[Romans 8]

Hello! I agree with Eternal Security for the believer, with caveats, however I cringe sometimes at some of the things that are said to me by 'believers' on this issue.

One person once said to me 'You can't lose your salvation so you might as well do what you want'. All your sins past present and future, also sounds a bit like a licence to rebel.

My main caveat is this, in order for a person to have eternal security they have got to be truly saved in the first place, genuinely born again. Some politically incorrect words like 'repentance' should be used. A watered down or a false gospel has no efficacy to save, sadly you don't have to go far to hear a watered down gospel message these days.

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.” (John 3:3)

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation, the old has gone and the new has come! (2 Corinthians 5:17)

'IF'

When the person is a new creation they will act in accordance with their new nature and with an attitude of gratitude for being saved.

God Bless

Absolutely! If you're not born again, none of this applies. Born again believers have been given a new heart.

 

[Clare73]

Absolutely! If you're not born again, none of this applies. Born again believers have been given a new heart.

And therein lies the guarantee of perseverance within the born again.

 

[lismore]

Absolutely! If you're not born again, none of this applies. Born again believers have been given a new heart.

100%. I think a lot of what people describe as 'losing your salvation', is people who were never saved in the first place departing, natural progression.

These people left our churches, but they never really belonged with us; otherwise they would have stayed with us. When they left, it proved that they did not belong with us (1 John 2:19).

God Bless

 

[Romans 8]

Perhaps consider watching videos on Conditional Security.
Some biblical passages used to support conditional security include:
* Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved."
* Hebrews 3:14: "For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end."
* Romans 8:12-13: "So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live."

Blessings

PS: Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.

Hi Maria. Salvation is free, given to us by God's grace, and purchased by Christ's blood. It is received by man's faith.

Matthew 24:13 >>> is about saints making enduring persecution without apostatizing during the tribulation.
Hebrews 3:14 >>> Faith is the root of salvation; endurance is the fruit.
Romans 8:12-13 >>> this spells it out. If you live according to the flesh (by works) you will die. Paul is warning to those in the congregation that are living by their works, to live in the Spirit (by faith).

God bless.

 

[Romans 8]

Nope ... OSAS is false

Believers can willfully choose to walk away from their faith and forfeit their relationship with God. Happens all the time my friend.

Revelation 3:5:
"He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels".

• every person who has ever been born starts with their name in the Book of Life.
• • Psalm 69:28:
    "Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous".
  • • Exodus 32:32:
    • Moses offers to be blotted out of God's book in place of the sinful Israelites, showcasing a self-sacrificial love for his people.

Hello Eleos,

Revelation 3:5 >>> Again, we're in revelation. This is about saints enduring persecution without apostatizing. Many with be threatened with decapitation. Many will be tempted to take the mark. Those who endure will be saved. Those of us raptured will not face this trial as we've already passed the test of being saved by faith, through grace, not by works!!
Psalm 69:28 >>> this is King David petitioning God. David is not God.
Exodus 32:32 >>> Moses is speaking here. But anyway, he was speaking about ending his physical life.

Anyone that's saved will not walk away from his salvation. God keeps us, and will not lose even one. Again though, we're speaking only of those truly born again. One were born again, we're sealed until the day of redemption. Thank you Jesus!!

 

[bling]

When I was first saved a few years ago, I reluctantly subscribed to the doctrine of OSAS. It's a nice thought. Once you put your faith in Jesus and His finished work on the cross and resurrection, you're saved for all your sins past, present, and future. Done. But then I would listen to certain pastors, denominations, and even people's NDE's (experiences where people claim to have had direct revelation from God in dying). It shocked me to think that a "born again believer" could actually go to hell because they decided to abandon the faith, or they followed the wrong doctrines later in life, or they didn't show proper fruit and a proper repentance. I remember walking out of the Baptist church when I made my decision for Christ with conflicting thoughts recalling how the pastor informed me how one is saved; that all we need to do is believe and we will inherit eternal life quoting 1 John 5:13. He was right. But later I thought, Can it really be that simple? Emotions play on us, and we listen to the wrong "authority" or we read the wrong book, or watch the wrong video and we can find ourselves trying to please God through our bible reading or devotionals or good deeds, or even second guess our salvation altogether. Given the times we live the world is full of theological error and it's easy to get tripped up.

I found a really great resource I want to share: Andrew Farley has books and a YouTube channel. He has cleared up a lot of questions I had on many challenging verses which people often misinterpret. Andrew makes a great argument in one of his videos entitled, "What if fruit only grows in freedom?", how can we bear fruit if we're cheating on Jesus (grace) with Moses (the law).

*Edit: OSAS is true. Once we're sealed, we're sealed unto the time of redemption. Our names are written in the book of life. For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus.*

Gal. 6: 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Paul explains plainly that eternal life is the harvest in the future we do not want to “give up”, but that also teaches we can give it up.

Our doing good stuff while here on earth (or better: our allowing God to work through us doing good stuff) is not to “earn”, “payback” or to allow us to “hold on to our salvation”. We want to continue to utilize Godly type Love and not get caught up in carnal type love so the huge Love Feast of Heaven (unselfish type Love only) still has value to us and not something we would sell on the cheap.

As far as being saved by faith only without “works”, that is true, but just like the Prodigal son wimped out of taking the punishment he fully deserved and humbly returned to the Father, we must wimp out, give up surrender to our enemy God and that will allow God to shower us with His charity.

• Eternal Life in heaven is spoken of as our inheritance and not something we actually have at the moment. All other Gifts of God we have right away, but heaven is truly ours as a birthright (our inheritance).
• 
  
• Part of the meaning to the concept of being given a gift is the fact that the ownership of the gift actually transfers to the receiver of the gift and as such the receiver of the gift can do what he/she wants to do with the gift.
• 
  
• The Hebrew writer in Heb. 12:16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.
• Esau own the “gift” of the first born inheritance rights, which could not be taken from him by anyone, nor could someone steal it from his hand, not even his father could take them back, but Esau could sell it or give it away.
• 
  
• The Hebrew writer is telling us not to give away or sell our birth right (as born again Christians) which is our inheritance of eternal life.
• 
  
• We own a paid up tax free deed to a home in heaven, so that home was gifted to us, but the Hebrew writer is saying we could sell (or give it away) like Esau did.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hi Maria. Salvation is free, given to us by God's grace, and purchased by Christ's blood. It is received by man's faith.

Matthew 24:13 >>> is about saints making enduring persecution without apostatizing during the tribulation.
Hebrews 3:14 >>> Faith is the root of salvation; endurance is the fruit.
Romans 8:12-13 >>> this spells it out. If you live according to the flesh (by works) you will die. Paul is warning to those in the congregation that are living by their works, to live in the Spirit (by faith).

God bless.

I don't disagree as long as one stays the course and does not apostatize.

Defined:
To "apostatize" is to forsake, abandon, or renounce one's religious faith. It is the act of committing apostasy, and a person who does so is called an apostate.
The term often carries a connotation of a strong or total rejection, particularly after having a prior, deep connection to the belief or organization.

 

[Romans 8]

I don't disagree as long as one stays the course and does not apostatize.

Defined:
To "apostatize" is to forsake, abandon, or renounce one's religious faith. It is the act of committing apostasy, and a person who does so is called an apostate.
The term often carries a connotation of a strong or total rejection, particularly after having a prior, deep connection to the belief or organization.

Hi Maria!

Absolutely agree. For example, the parable of the soils:

Luke 8:12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity.
15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

Anyone who leaves the faith in apostasy was never saved. His seed never sprouted. This is why reciting the sinner's prayer is usually the starting point. We need to keep watering the seed by hearing the word until God makes it grow. Once that seed takes root, we can merrily quote:

Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

And praise God for that!

 

[Delvianna]

So I guess we have to start even further with the idea of if you believe the bible is inerrant? Because for me, that means two verses cannot conflict, otherwise there is no way we could figure out the truth and everything would then be subjective while having no source for truth. So, I believe the bible is inerrant, where through man, he has made sure we have something we can follow. (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

So when I look at and read scripture, I weave together verses to get a general idea, rather than cherry pick a few verses and ignore others because I want to make sure that there aren't verses that conflict. So, the idea of OSAS is technically true, but with a disclaimer. I want to start with a few concepts:

Going after his people
Jesus promises to leave the 99 to go after the 1 lost sheep and you have to be a sheep in the first place to get lost (Matthew 18:12). As well as a lot of other verses that are already listed in this thread like Romans 8:38.

Endurance
Now, you have the idea that you have to endure (Matthew 24:13), work out your salvation daily (Philippians 2:12), and others in Romans and Hebrews that have already been talked about.

Distinction on who is really saved
But there's also this: "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us."- 1 John 2:19

So the idea is, those that are truly saved, won't completely abandon the faith. As Maria Billingsley so rightly pointed out with the definition of apostate, while also applying the other concepts I already listed.

So salvation is, while we are saved by Faith in Jesus (Ephesians 2:8-9), our faith is proved by our works (James 2:18) (not that works get us to heaven, but they are evidence of our faith), and our fruit is evidence of our walk in Christ (Matthew 7:15-20), because we continually stay in Christ and don't leave (John 15:4-8). But the disclaimer is, we have to stay in Christ as John 15 points out. True saving faith doesn't reject God. We might stray because of sin, but as 1 John 2 says, if you do leave by completely rejecting Christ, then you were never really saved to begin with. Because there is faith that doesn't save and the Church of Laodicea is a good example of that (Revelation 3:14-22).

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Anyone who leaves the faith in apostasy was never saved

I know this a common assumption however, it would not be possible to apostize unless one had first partaken in His saving Grace. This is what it ultimately means to have free will and to stay the course. We are constantly reminded of this all through scripture. We can not discard the importance and warnings given directly to the Fold. There is a genuine concern of falling away and rejecting the free gift given to the individual. Consider this, the gift is given then it is given back.

 

[ARBITER01]

I know this a common assumption however, it would not be possible to apostize unless one had first partaken in His saving Grace. This is what it ultimately means to have free will and to stay the course. We are constantly reminded of this all through scripture. We can not discard the importance and warnings given directly to the Fold. There is a genuine concern of falling away and rejecting the free gift given to the individual. Consider this, the gift is given then it is given back.

That is correct,....

- Original: ἀποστασία
- Transliteration: Apostasia
- Phonetic: ap-os-tas-ee'-ah
- Definition:
1. a falling away, defection, apostasy
- Origin: feminine of the same as G647
- TDNT entry: 09:33,9
- Part(s) of speech: Noun Feminine

- Strong's: Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state) (apostasy): - falling away forsake.

 

[Romans 8]

I know this a common assumption however, it would not be possible to apostize unless one had first partaken in His saving Grace. This is what it ultimately means to have free will and to stay the course. We are constantly reminded of this all through scripture. We can not discard the importance and warnings given directly to the Fold. There is a genuine concern of falling away and rejecting the free gift given to the individual. Consider this, the gift is given then it is given back.

Hi Maria,

Thank you for your reply. The falling away has been happening increasingly over the past few decades. Christianity has decreased significantly in the west. These are the days 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 reference. We're nearing the end.

God Bless.

 

[eleos1954]

Hello Eleos,

Revelation 3:5 >>> Again, we're in revelation. This is about saints enduring persecution without apostatizing. Many with be threatened with decapitation. Many will be tempted to take the mark. Those who endure will be saved. Those of us raptured will not face this trial as we've already passed the test of being saved by faith, through grace, not by works!!
Psalm 69:28 >>> this is King David petitioning God. David is not God.
Exodus 32:32 >>> Moses is speaking here. But anyway, he was speaking about ending his physical life.

Anyone that's saved will not walk away from his salvation. God keeps us, and will not lose even one. Again though, we're speaking only of those truly born again. One were born again, we're sealed until the day of redemption. Thank you Jesus!!

the Bible teaches that salvation requires continued faith and obedience to God.

apostasy—a deliberate turning away from Christ—is a very real possibility, and the Bible warns against it. They point to scriptures like the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:3–9) and warnings to endure to the end (Matthew 24:12–13) as evidence that a person's faith can fail.

If a person who has genuinely believed in Jesus deliberately rejects their faith and walks away from Christ, they are no longer saved.