Empathy

[Freth]

From what I gather, Charlie was talking about empathy being used as a political tool. Selective empathy. Only having empathy for those on your side of the political spectrum, but no empathy for those on the other side.

I also see it being used as a weapon. Show empathy or face the consequences. You can't demand empathy.

 

[rambot]

The left goes on and on about empathy and how much empathy they have, and yet displayed a complete and total lack of empathy and compassion over the assassination of Charlie Kirk. We got a good look at who they really are.

I don't feel empathy for Charlie cause he's dead.

I did clearly expressed empathy for his family because that was awful for them to be there.

But frankly I don't idol worship our political figures like the right so I can't really be the kind of empathetic you may need.

I'm sorry i let you down like that.

 

[rambot]

From what I gather, Charlie was talking about empathy being used as a political tool. Selective empathy. Only having empathy for those on your side of the political spectrum, but no empathy for those on the other side.

What is the evidence that you rhink he's talking about it in that manner?

I also see it being used as a weapon. Show empathy or face the consequences. You can't demand empathy.

 

[rambot]

I don't know for sure what Mr. Kirk intended, but there have been some recent books by conservative Evangelicals on the topic of empathy: "The Sin of Empathy: Compassion and its Counterfeits", by Joe Rigney, and "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion", by Allie Beth Stuckey. I suspect Kirk may have had one or both of them in mind. I'm not going to be able to summarize their viewpoint fairly (I know I will end up caricaturing them, so I will refrain), but here are two relevant articles.

1) Albert Mohler interviews Joe Rigney. Note that both are favorable to the anti-empathy point of view.

The Sin of Empathy — A Conversation with Joe Rigney - AlbertMohler.com

Cultural commentary from a Biblical perspective

albertmohler.com

2) An article from the AP, posted on PBS's website. This author is more impartial, but I think the writer is trying to be fair.

Is empathy a sin? Some conservative Christians argue it can be

Those Christians claim empathy can manipulate people into accepting what they see as sins, like abortion access and LGBTQ+ rights.

www.pbs.org

I think the idea of "hate the sin love the sinner" gets a lot more complex if you think empathy if a sin.

Frankly I don't quite understand it. I've always thought secular gay folk really dont care too much if conservatives think being gay is a sin. I think the peoblem is that they've always thought that they deserved equal rights under the law and want to be treated with respect. We can be empathetic to them in so much as many people treat them as lesser becsuse Christians have felt that way before.

Empathy does not necessarily mean condoning anything.

 

[eleos1954]

A quote from Chuck Kirk.


Now I look at this quote and I get seriously confused. I cannot understand why a person would have a problem with empathy.

How would the Good Samaritan Help someone that thinks their terrible without it?

How can Jesus heal someone without it?

In my view, empathy connects us and allow people sympathy to flow more greatly. It creates stronger bonds between strangers.

So help me understand how and WHY empathy is bad.

The concern raised by some conservative Christians is that "empathy" can be misconstrued to mean validating or celebrating sinful actions. Empathy should not be confused with condoning sin or excusing unrighteous behavior.

 

[Servus]

I don't feel empathy for Charlie cause he's dead.

I did clearly expressed empathy for his family because that was awful for them to be there.

But frankly I don't idol worship our political figures like the right so I can't really be the kind of empathetic you may need.

I'm sorry i let you down like that.

That's you. What about the rest?

 

[rambot]

The concern raised by some conservative Christians is that "empathy" can be misconstrued to mean validating or celebrating sinful actions. Empathy should not be confused with condoning sin or excusing unrighteous behavior.

YES! Thank you. I agree 100%.

Also, the idea of feeling empathy for "Being repressed"....Christians could ACTUALLY feel empathy for gay folks on this front.

A true Christian call is antithetical to quite a few American cultural constructs; and gay people get repressed.

We can find way to be empathetic with people; even people we disagree with, without condoning sin.

 

[eleos1954]

YES! Thank you. I agree 100%.

Also, the idea of feeling empathy for "Being repressed"....Christians could ACTUALLY feel empathy for gay folks on this front.

A true Christian call is antithetical to antithetical to quite a few American cultural constructs; and gay people get repressed.

We can find way to be empathetic with people; even people we disagree with, without condoning sin.

We continuously point people to Jesus .... He is the only way.

 

[essentialsaltes]

So much is tied up in warring definitions and contrasts with empathy and sympathy, it may be better to just talk about caring or compassion or understanding.

I care that you've left your country for a better life here. I understand that; everyone should understand that, but there are rules, and we're shipping you back.

Obviously, there is plenty of rhetoric about invaders (or worse) that suggests some people don't care about people in this situation.

 

[o_mlly]

I think it is important to separate between the person and the actions.

I agree. We can never know the sin of another as sin is in the will, subjective. We can judge objectively the act as good or evil.

 

[Servus]

The concern raised by some conservative Christians is that "empathy" can be misconstrued to mean validating or celebrating sinful actions. Empathy should not be confused with condoning sin or excusing unrighteous behavior.

When we're told to have empathy, it's way of trying to get us to stop speaking out against a culture of sin. It's just the latest tactic.

 

[bèlla]

That's you. What about the rest?

He’s not the only one. I have a similar opinion and don’t admire anyone on either side. But I wouldn’t wish them harm.

~bella

 

[rambot]

When we're told to have empathy, it's way of trying to get us to stop speaking out against a culture of sin. It's just the latest tactic.

No it's not. The last several posts cleared that up.

 

[o_mlly]

The concern raised by some conservative Christians is that "empathy" can be misconstrued to mean validating or celebrating sinful actions. Empathy should not be confused with condoning sin or excusing unrighteous behavior.

On its own the feeling of empathy is neither good nor evil as it un-willed. However, if the feeling moves us to commit an evil act the then act and the feeling that preceded the act are both evil.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Thank you for your in-depth response.

empathy(n.)​

1908, modeled on German Einfühlung (from ein "in" + Fühlung "feeling"), which was coined 1858 by German philosopher Rudolf Lotze (1817-1881) as a translation of Greek empatheia "passion, state of emotion," from assimilated form of en "in" (see en- (2)) + pathos "feeling" (from PIE root *kwent(h)- "to suffer").

Empathy - Etymology, Origin & Meaning

Originating in 1908 from German Einfühlung (ein "in" + Fühlung "feeling"), derived from Greek empatheia meaning "passion, state of emotion," it denotes art apprec...

www.etymonline.com

So, is empathy a passion? Yes, it is.

Oh great, an entomologist. Such people bug me.

 

[o_mlly]

Oh great, an entomologist. Such people bug me.

A biologist bugged by one of his own pests? There's hope.

 

[Ophiolite]

When we're told to have empathy, it's way of trying to get us to stop speaking out against a culture of sin. It's just the latest tactic.

That does not seem to be a constructive way of looking at things. If there are issues of disagreement these are most likely to be solved by seeking to consider the matter from the other side, not by adopting a wholly dismissive attitude and position. Surely attempts to solve differences are more valuable than endless, entrenched bickering.

Thus I am seeking to understand the concerns that led you to make the above post. It seems you fear that demands of empathy are an invidious trick, a subterfuge, to enable the sinners to continue sinning. If my understanding is accurate, it does not solve the differences of our position, but at least it clarifies the problem. The alternative would have been a reactive attack on your position, which would have only deepened the rift.

So, I vote for empathy. I'd like to think you would give it serious consideration.

 

[linux.poet]

I can't stand the word empathy, actually. I think empathy is a made-up, new age term that — it does a lot of damage.

A quote from Chuck Kirk.

Now I look at this quote and I get seriously confused. I cannot understand why a person would have a problem with empathy.

In some contexts, particularly that of “woke” subculture rhetoric, empathy is just a fancy code word for narcissistic behavior and demanding that other people cater to your personal feelings at the expense of logic and truth.

The New Age movement is about humans “finding God” inside of themselves in order to become God (or at least, some kind of deity) so that movement would definitely seem to be in line with this type of empathetic narcissism.

See: Christian nationalist pastor McPherson: "Empathy is aligned with hell."

Therefore, empathy is a demand that I worship your emotions as God. It is idolatry. I will have none of it.

You could also go with “Some female parents and LGTBQ individuals don’t properly understand what empathy is and confuse empathy with narcissistic demands. This has led some pastors to distance themselves from the term “empathy” in order to avoid enabling these groups’ sin and supporting LGTBQ positions.” Now we have an objective thesis that can be argued in academic circles and justify paying theologians overpriced salaries for at least another year.

I spent some too-long posts processing my overpriced rage at empathetic narcissists already, so I don't see the need to repeat myself. Basically, a somewhat legitimate human attribute is being weaponized by narcs, which then reflects badly on the word. Political rhetoric is typically concise and doesn't really go into nuance.

So help me understand how and WHY empathy is bad.

The other problem with empathy is that it's passive. You didn't choose to feel what the other person felt and respond with kindness or compassion. You just did, and it's the other person taking advantage of your subconscious/unconscious mind. That's why empathy is bad, because it's out of your control, and it either indicates that you are being manipulated or you have a disorder. You have to push back against the mirror-neuron-downloaded emotion in order to think clearly and act from your own beliefs again.

That's a good point. Let's ask: What is the difference between Empathy and Compassion? I'll let everyone else here work on finding out what they think the answer is.

Empathy is passive; compassion is active. Empathy is something that you experience; compassion is something that you DO, and it requires thought because you need to think about what the best course of action is.

Let's say I have a homeless friend. Empathy is feeling sorry for them every night as I think about their miserable sleeping conditions while I sleep in my comfortable bed in my house. It's useless. Compassion is taking them to Costco and buying them a chicken for them to eat, and helping them with their resume so they can find a job.

Speaking of victims, many of them need compassion instead of empathy. Even praying for them is an act of compassion.

 

[Servus]

That does not seem to be a constructive way of looking at things. If there are issues of disagreement these are most likely to be solved by seeking to consider the matter from the other side, not by adopting a wholly dismissive attitude and position. Surely attempts to solve differences are more valuable than endless, entrenched bickering.

Thus I am seeking to understand the concerns that led you to make the above post. It seems you fear that demands of empathy are an invidious trick, a subterfuge, to enable the sinners to continue sinning. If my understanding is accurate, it does not solve the differences of our position, but at least it clarifies the problem. The alternative would have been a reactive attack on your position, which would have only deepened the rift.

So, I vote for empathy. I'd like to think you would give it serious consideration.

The word empathy is just simply a replacement for the word tolerance.