Christian nationalist pastor McPherson: "Empathy is aligned with hell."

[linux.poet]

I can't be sure, not having heard your conversation, but it sounds like you cross the line of criticizing the sinner instead of the sin.

Certain sins are more common to certain groups, is what I'm trying to say here. Traumatized abuse victims are more likely to be violent criminals. I'm not a violent criminal, but I live in a glass house in terms of group judgement and really shouldn't be throwing stones. My post was trying to explain McPherson's position since I agree with it, and show how empaths have weaponized empathy against me. That's about it.

In our common situation as sinners--it is easy to empathize with other sinners. You might not be tempted by their temptations, but you are tempted.

I'm not good enough for that. If you've gone through CPTSD as I have, you'll realize pretty quick how destructive sin is, how devastating it is, how much it hurts. After that, I have to say my empathy for sin is a lot closer to zero. Everyone is always better off with sin gone.

People who would never tell Mr. Jones he underpays and overworks his employees feel free to declare open season on gays. Why?

I honestly don't know, but I don't support workplace cruelty. At some level, you also need to realize that "declaring open season" may not be the best approach to deal with homosexuals. A lot of LGTBQ+ individuals are suffering from parental trauma that messed up their sexual attractions, or they found some lie somewhere that told them people of the same sex were desirable, and that warped how their body feels. Throwing more insults at trauma victims who may be suffering from limerance may not be the best approach to deal with their issues.

At the same time, we need to contain LGTBQ lies. The lunatics should not be running the asylum, and Romans 1 is clear about the sinfulness of homosexuality.

 

[Fantine]

Thank you for explaining your position. It sounds trite to say I can empathize, but you have spoken from your heart, and when one heart speaks to another heart the response is often empathy.
I am attending a Lenten workshop right now that speaks to what we have been discussing. Dealing with the wounds and traumas of our past so we can be the images of God we were born to be. We need to companion ourselves with compassion so we can give that same compassion to others.
The companion book is "The Easter Mysteries" by Beatrice Bruteau.
In any case, it's early morning here, but I love the vision of God's compassion and restorative justice the world so desperately needs.

 

[stevevw]

Studies done have shown that empathy without any grounding can become biased against certain groups. People tend to be more empathetic to those closest. You can prime people to eb more empathetic towards certaincauses with certain emotional pleas, especially using children. Or creating certain narratives which paint certain groups as a threat.

Activists are good at creation narratives and manipulations such as conscious raising and pushing certain narratives that divides society into tribes seeing people as the other. Garnering empathy for some while making others the monster.

I think theres a mistaken empathy which is really feelings. Mistaking feelings for a genuiner empathy thats grounded in God. Feelings that actually overlook reality and is more about an ideology. Trying to protect people from lifes reality as they think this is being empathetic and loving when it not.

 

[Fantine]

If you feel empathy towards victims there are, of necessity, victimizers.
I try to take into consideration what created the victimizers so as not to dehumanize them. It helps, however imperfectly.

 

[essentialsaltes]

When you kick God out of the schools, Satan takes hold.

TAMPA - A unique program at Memorial Middle School brings together students and their four-legged friends for a lesson in responsibility, empathy, and life skills.

"It's fun. I like it," said eighth-grade student Melay Paneca Moya.

'It's fun.' 'Just do it.' Ever thus with the lies of the Deceiver.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Studies done have shown that empathy without any grounding can become biased against certain groups

What studies are those?

 

[Fantine]

When you kick God out of the schools, Satan takes hold.

TAMPA - A unique program at Memorial Middle School brings together students and their four-legged friends for a lesson in responsibility, empathy, and life skills.

"It's fun. I like it," said eighth-grade student Melay Paneca Moya.

'It's fun.' 'Just do it.' Ever thus with the lies of the Deceiver.

View attachment 362732

Spoiler alert: All Dogs Go to Heaven.

 

[dlamberth]

It is a trick that dumb moms and LGTBQ+ use to attack Christianity, by demanding that Christians subjugate their beliefs to their emotions before they will socially interact normally.

So that's what this is really all about.

 

[linux.poet]

So that's what this is really all about.

Yeah, that’s pretty much the tl;dr.

You could also go with “Some female parents and LGTBQ individuals don’t properly understand what empathy is and confuse empathy with narcissistic demands. This has led some pastors to distance themselves from the term “empathy” in order to avoid enabling these groups’ sin and supporting LGTBQ positions.” Now we have an objective thesis that can be argued in academic circles and justify paying theologians overpriced salaries for at least another year.

 

[Robban]

Empathy has to do with sensitivity.

Listening.

Here is one perspective from The Jewish woman,org, by ChanaWeisberg.

A quote by Steven Covey author of "The seven habits of highly effective people"

"Most people do not listen with the intent to understand: they listen with the intent to reply.

They`re either speaking or preparing to speak.

They`re filtering everything through their own paradigms, reading their autobiography into other peoples lives."

 

[stevevw]

What studies are those?

Empathy is crucial to being a good person, right? Think again
Some argue that, far from motivating pro-social behaviours, empathy can push us towards inaction at best and racism and violence at worst

Empathy is crucial to being a good person, right? Think again

Some argue that, far from motivating pro-social behaviours, empathy can push us towards inaction at best and racism and violence at worst

www.theguardian.com

Can Empathy Actually Be Harmful?

Can Empathy Actually Be Harmful? | SPSP

spsp.org

Friends or foes: Is empathy necessary for moral behavior?
It is well established that the mere assignment of individuals to arbitrary groups elicits evaluative preferences for in-group relative to out-group members, and this impacts empathy.

Friends or foes: Is empathy necessary for moral behavior? - PMC

The past decade has witnessed a flurry of empirical and theoretical research on morality and empathy, as well as increased interest and usage in the media and the public arena. At times, in both popular and academia, morality and empathy are used ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

AGAINST EMPATHY
Empathy is not a component, a necessary cause, a reliable epistemic guide, a foundation for justification, or the motivating force behind our moral judgments. In fact, empathy is prone to biases that render it potentially harmful.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.2041-6962.2011.00069.x

 

[partinobodycular]

Empathy is crucial to being a good person, right? Think again
Some argue that, far from motivating pro-social behaviours, empathy can push us towards inaction at best and racism and violence at worst

Empathy is crucial to being a good person, right? Think again

Some argue that, far from motivating pro-social behaviours, empathy can push us towards inaction at best and racism and violence at worst

www.theguardian.com

Can Empathy Actually Be Harmful?

Can Empathy Actually Be Harmful? | SPSP

spsp.org

Friends or foes: Is empathy necessary for moral behavior?
It is well established that the mere assignment of individuals to arbitrary groups elicits evaluative preferences for in-group relative to out-group members, and this impacts empathy.

Friends or foes: Is empathy necessary for moral behavior? - PMC

The past decade has witnessed a flurry of empirical and theoretical research on morality and empathy, as well as increased interest and usage in the media and the public arena. At times, in both popular and academia, morality and empathy are used ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

AGAINST EMPATHY
Empathy is not a component, a necessary cause, a reliable epistemic guide, a foundation for justification, or the motivating force behind our moral judgments. In fact, empathy is prone to biases that render it potentially harmful.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.2041-6962.2011.00069.x

As someone who's been apathetic all my life my suspicions are therefore confirmed... I'm vastly superior to you cretins.

 

[Robban]

Empathy is crucial to being a good person, right? Think again
Some argue that, far from motivating pro-social behaviours, empathy can push us towards inaction at best and racism and violence at worst

Empathy is crucial to being a good person, right? Think again

Some argue that, far from motivating pro-social behaviours, empathy can push us towards inaction at best and racism and violence at worst

www.theguardian.com

Can Empathy Actually Be Harmful?

Can Empathy Actually Be Harmful? | SPSP

spsp.org

Friends or foes: Is empathy necessary for moral behavior?
It is well established that the mere assignment of individuals to arbitrary groups elicits evaluative preferences for in-group relative to out-group members, and this impacts empathy.

Friends or foes: Is empathy necessary for moral behavior? - PMC

The past decade has witnessed a flurry of empirical and theoretical research on morality and empathy, as well as increased interest and usage in the media and the public arena. At times, in both popular and academia, morality and empathy are used ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

AGAINST EMPATHY
Empathy is not a component, a necessary cause, a reliable epistemic guide, a foundation for justification, or the motivating force behind our moral judgments. In fact, empathy is prone to biases that render it potentially harmful.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.2041-6962.2011.00069.x

By showing empathy we emulate the G-d-like attribute of caring for others by being sensitive to their situations

and offering our compassion.

All the negative you have pointed to comes from morality seeking.

 

[stevevw]

As someone who's been apathetic all my life my suspicions are therefore confirmed... I'm vastly superior to you cretins.

So its pity rather than empathy lol.

 

[stevevw]

By showing empathy we emulate the G-d-like attribute of caring for others by being sensitive to their situations

and offering our compassion.

All the negative you have pointed to comes from morality seeking.

Actually you highlighted an important qualification for empathy which is compassion. This is different to empathy and is grounded in good, Christlike compassion.

Which tells us that moral seeking can be mistaken and grounded in a worldly idea of what is empathy. Just like morality can be grounded in secular ideologies such as humanism or Woke. Rather than in Christ and Gods law and order.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Empathy is not the same thing as caring. Empathy means to identify with. Christians showing empathy seems to be mostly brought up regarding LGBTQ+. Meaning Christians are being pushed into and or tricked into identifying with LGBTQ+.

"It begins with a grumbling mood, always complaining, always blaming others... but you are still distinct from it. You may even criticize it in yourself and wish you could stop it. But there may come a day when you can no longer. Then there will be no you left to criticize the mood or even enjoy it, but just the grumble itself, going on forever like a machine. It is not a question of God 'sending us' to hell. In each of us there is something growing, which will Be hell unless it is nipped in the bud." - C.S. Lewis

"It does not matter how small the sins are provided that their cumulative effect is to edge the man away from the Light and out into the Nothing. Murder is no better than cards if cards can do the trick. Indeed the safest road to Hell is the gradual one--the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts." - C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Larniavc]

Whoever would have thought that we would have to defend empathy to supposedly Christian pastors?

I dunno man. Pastors don’t seem the most reliable of professions. Much like politicians, CEOs and surgeons.

 

[Larniavc]

Don't be silly. I can empathize with someone's suffering... I can empathize with their struggles... I can empathize with their insecurity, without blindly approving of everything that they do. But failing to recognize and minister to the former isn't justified by your hatred of the latter. Christians aren't being tricked into anything... they're being called to love thy neighbor. Perhaps the bible could've done a better job of explaining what that looks like.

The post you are responding to I cannot see as I’ve ‘ignored’ that user. Does it show a lack or misunderstanding of empathy?

 

[Servus]

"It begins with a grumbling mood, always complaining, always blaming others... but you are still distinct from it. You may even criticize it in yourself and wish you could stop it. But there may come a day when you can no longer. Then there will be no you left to criticize the mood or even enjoy it, but just the grumble itself, going on forever like a machine. It is not a question of God 'sending us' to hell. In each of us there is something growing, which will Be hell unless it is nipped in the bud." - C.S. Lewis

"It does not matter how small the sins are provided that their cumulative effect is to edge the man away from the Light and out into the Nothing. Murder is no better than cards if cards can do the trick. Indeed the safest road to Hell is the gradual one--the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts." - C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters

-CryptoLutheran

What's the point you're making with these quotes?

 

[partinobodycular]

So its pity rather than empathy lol.

It's not pity as much as it is fascination. Why are people so incredibly stupid? When I was younger I considered stupid people to be an anomaly, but as I've gotten older I've come to realize that they're a lot more numerous than I thought they were. So obviously I had to try to figure out why.

The idea of empathy being a bad thing is actually a rational thought to have, but it shouldn't take an intelligent person very long before they realize that it leads to patently absurd conclusions and is therefore a poor line of reasoning. Which is fine, we all go down those rabbit holes now and then, so no harm done. Contemplate the implications, then file the idea away and move on. But the thing is that some people don't. They actually grow more and more engrossed with the idea the dumber it gets, to the point that they become oblivious to anything that would convince them otherwise. They become utterly irrational. Why would people do that?

This behavior alone fascinates me, but then other seemingly intelligent people follow them down the rabbit hole, completely oblivious to its irrationality. Now one irrational person is bad enough, but an entire mob of irrational people... that's insane. Why do people do that?

Now from a purely logical perspective it kind of makes sense, we've evolved to be a combination of explorers and homebodies. With some of us content with staying where we are, and others of us drawn to find out what lies beyond the horizon. To some people there be wonders, and to others there be monsters. From an evolutionary standpoint each perspective has it's benefits. The homebody preserves the tried and true, while the explorer seeks out any potential 'treasures' that lie 'out there' within the unexplored. Evolution, unconcerned about the individual, creates both kinds... explorers and homebodies, rational people and irrational people, because the combination of the two is superior to either of them on their own. And evolution makes the explorers fervent in their quest because even if they're wrong, the potential good for the group outweighs the potential sacrifice of the individual. Let the individual go mad, if there's enough potential benefit to the group. The fervent offset the complacent.

My conclusion: Evolution has created irrational people because in the long run they're beneficial. They may be completely deranged 99% of the time, but if the conditions are just right... we get an Einstein, or just a lot of lesser geniuses.

So all hail the irrationally stupid people... Lord only knows where we'd be without them. Not that the process is a pretty one, but it works.