Monastics and vegetarianism

[RileyG]

(posting in fellowship)

I did not want to go off topic in another thread, but I was wondering, why Orthodox monks and nuns tend to be vegetarian and only eat fish? Are they also not allowed to eat cheese, dairy, yogurt, wine, oil et al? What other foods do they avoid?

I remember reading about St. Benedict telling two men who were possessed to avoid meat after they were delivered (he's a pre-schism saint, and the founder of monasticism in the west).

Peace

 

[gzt]

They eat cheese, wine, oil, etc. Most Western monasticism is (or was traditionally) also typically vegetarian despite that anecdote. The Rule of St Benedict seems to allow poultry (and, I guess, primates) but the stricter orders based on it like the Cistercians are vegetarian.

 

[ArmyMatt]

they are typically vegetarian/vegan because because that was more akin to Adam’s diet prior to the Fall. that diet helps with prayer which is the primary calling of the monk or nun (because they typically don’t deal with the same stuff those of us in the world deal with. the callings are equal, but different).

that said, it’s also based on the health of the monastic, the rule set by the abbot/abbess, etc.

 

[Isaac the Recluse]

Isn't there also a poverty aspect to it? I've picked up that we fast from the things we do as they were seen as luxuries.

It's always seemed odd that we can have as much sugar as we like, but not a coffee with milk - it was explained to me that when fasting rules came about, sugar wasn't a commodity, so there's no rules about it. Still, I make efforts not to overuse that allowance.

 

[RileyG]

Thanks for the responses! Very interesting!

 

[prodromos]

Isn't there also a poverty aspect to it? I've picked up that we fast from the things we do as they were seen as luxuries.

It's always seemed odd that we can have as much sugar as we like, but not a coffee with milk - it was explained to me that when fasting rules came about, sugar wasn't a commodity, so there's no rules about it. Still, I make efforts not to overuse that allowance.

We should be eating simple food, although there are some delicious fasting recipes. I believe part of the mentality is that the money saved can then be used for almsgiving.
Lobster is technically fasting food, but as it is now considered a luxury item, eating it would not be in the spirit of the fast. Olive oil and wine are historically restricted during fasts because they have traditionally been served in wineskins made from cattle hides.

 

[RileyG]

We should be eating simple food, although there are some delicious fasting recipes. I believe part of the mentality is that the money saved can then be used for almsgiving.
Lobster is technically fasting food, but as it is now considered a luxury item, eating it would not be in the spirit of the fast. Olive oil and wine are historically restricted during fasts because they have traditionally been served in wineskins made from cattle hides.

Lobster was once considered poor man’s food, but not anymore. I think the same goes with shrimp or crab because they were “sea insects/bottom dwellers.” Interesting historical fact.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Lobster was once considered poor man’s food, but not anymore. I think the same goes with shrimp or crab because they were “sea insects/bottom dwellers.” Interesting historical fact.

there are folks looking into this about our fasting being adjusted for this reason, that what was once considered poor and simple is now considered high end food.

 

[gzt]

I mean, seafood being luxurious is not merely about the meat of them per se, but the method of preparation as well. Fresh, steamed or boiled in teh shell, served with melted butter and lemon juice, lobster is pretty great. Canned, not so much.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I mean, seafood being luxurious is not merely about the meat of them per se, but the method of preparation as well. Fresh, steamed or boiled in teh shell, served with melted butter and lemon juice, lobster is pretty great. Canned, not so much.

I will most definitely take your word on this one, since I can’t stand seafood. but I have heard the meat of Alaskan king crab alone is incredible. just wondering if there are shellfish out there that might not need as much prep due to natural flavor.

 

[caffeinated hermit]

Posting (and asking) in fellowship, but do the Orthodox (or any Saints) have rules against shellfish because they're technically cooked while still alive? That's something that's always bugged me, and I can't bring myself to eat them for that reason. I always felt bad for the lobsters.

 

[gzt]

I'm not aware of any rules about that. I personally don't happen to eat the ones that are cooked that way.

 

[RileyG]

Posting (and asking) in fellowship, but do the Orthodox (or any Saints) have rules against shellfish because they're technically cooked while still alive? That's something that's always bugged me, and I can't bring myself to eat them for that reason. I always felt bad for the lobsters.

As in crab, lobster, shrimp? What about oysters? Cooked or raw?

 

[RileyG]

I'm not aware of any rules about that. I personally don't happen to eat the ones that are cooked that way.

Are lobsters still cooked alive, though?

I know in some Asian countries, squid and octopuses are eaten alive as a delicacy, but it's not common in the Western world. Not to go off topic

 

[caffeinated hermit]

As in crab, lobster, shrimp? What about oysters? Cooked or raw?

Crabs, lobsters, and any mollusks steamed / boiled while still alive (like mussels).

My family used to cook lobsters alive when I was a kid. The adults would always shoo me out of the kitchen during that process, because I was a huge animal lover and I'd start crying or asking if the lobsters were ok, and if we could let them out.

 

[RileyG]

Crabs, lobsters, and any mollusks steamed boiled while still alive (like mussels).

My family used to cook lobsters alive when I was a kid. The adults would always shoo me out of the kitchen during that process, because I was a huge animal lover and I'd start crying or asking if the lobsters were ok, and if we could let them out.

Mmmm, I love mussels and remember the first time I had them in France. Didn't know they were still boiled alive! YIKES!

I love lobster and crab too, but don't eat it very often. Mostly just imitation crab meat, which isn't the real thing. I mostly don't eat much seafood. I usually eat chicken, beef, pork and sometimes turkey.