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Radical Serge in Republican Voter Registrations Sin Carlie Kirk's Death

FAITH-IN-HIM

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Its relevant when the dispute is over "did X party run a candidate whos acceptable to the voters or not".
Unless the U.S. Constitution is amended to adopt a popular vote system, receiving 100% of the vote in states such as California, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, and Illinois has no impact on the overall outcome.

Clinton did not receive enough electoral votes to reach 270, indicating she was not a winning candidate.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Over the past nine years, I have had many conversations with evangelical Christians from my church and social circles who voted for President Trump.

They all presented a similar rationale: they supported Mike Huckabee during the primary because he is considered a man of faith, an ordained minister with strong character, and a positive role model. However, after his withdrawal from the race, they felt compelled to vote for Trump.

My response is: if someone chooses Huckabee for his faith, role modeling, and Christian values, but then supports a candidate who has been divorced twice, married three times, and faced multiple allegations of misconduct, it suggests that their criteria regarding faith, character, and the sanctity of marriage were not consistent. The shift in support from Huckabee to Trump raises questions about their conviction of these principles.

They're not just inconsistent; they're straight up lying to you. Perhaps to themselves, too. Huckabee was on the ballot in all of one primary before dropping out. This was Iowa (a caucus, technically), where he got 3,345 votes, putting him in 8th place out of 11. There were several other traditionally Christian candidates in that race they could've backed, including Cruz, who stayed in until nearly the end.
 
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durangodawood

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Unless the U.S. Constitution is amended to adopt a popular vote system, receiving 100% of the vote in states such as California, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, and Illinois has no impact on the overall outcome.

Clinton did not receive enough electoral votes to reach 270, indicating she was not a winning candidate.
Yes of course. But when the voters prefer a candidate over the alternative, it does indicate that the candidate was not as unpopular as people were suggesting earlier.
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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Yes of course. But when the voters prefer a candidate over the alternative, it does indicate that the candidate was not as unpopular as people were suggesting earlier.
She was not well-liked, which contributed to her defeat. Nancy Pelosi once remarked that in the district represented by AOC, even a glass of water running as a Democrat would receive more votes than a GOP candidate. Unfortunately, this reflects a broader reality in American politics: 90% of voters follow party lines. The number of votes Clinton received in 2016 likely would have been earned by any Democratic candidate.
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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They're not just inconsistent; they're straight up lying to you. Perhaps to themselves, too. Huckabee was on the ballot in all of one primary before dropping out. This was Iowa (a caucus, technically), where he got 3,345 votes, putting him in 8th place out of 11. There were several other traditionally Christian candidates in that race they could've backed, including Cruz, who stayed in until nearly the end.
It appears their rationale is to reconcile conflicting positions. On one hand, they wish to present themselves as principled Christians while aligning with someone whose values may differ. Their justification centers on the belief that opposing DNC’s pro-choice stance takes priority above other considerations.

There is a bible verse for those people

“What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul?”
 
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Oompa Loompa

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No need, she knows perfectly well what happened:


See?

-- A2SG, she's pretty well informed overall....
Well, you are ignoring the fact that she claimed that it was James Comey who "tanked" her campaign right before the election, implying that if Comey had not, she would have won. So, she either knew perfectly well what happened and is being disingenuous, or you both are gaslighting in an attempt to walk back her statement.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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It is relevant because the criticism is that she ran a poor campaign.
Calling half the country a "basket of deplorables" is what you would consider running a good campaign?
 
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rambot

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Calling half the country a "basket of deplorables" is what you would consider running a good campaign?
Are you serious?
Trump says worse about the left several times a week but you guys eat it up with the appropriate cultery and then BEG for more.

This comment from 9 years ago gets brought up like you're traumatized by witnessing a murder.
 
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NxNW

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Unfortunately, this reflects a broader reality in American politics: 90% of voters follow party lines. The number of votes Clinton received in 2016 likely would have been earned by any Democratic candidate.
The elections are won and lost by a couple million people in the swing states. If polling is to be believed, they change their minds multiple times throughout a campaign. When Biden dropped out, they swung from Trump to Harris, and then back to Trump, with possibly a couple more reversals among the way.

One thing I'm noticing is that very few VP choices over the years have also been strong frontrunner candidates. Bush Sr was the last one I remember who had the creds and personality, despite being the most corrupt person in DC since Nixon. Quayle was a joke. Gore was close. Cheney had creds, but could never have won the general, even with a strong heart. Biden was able to pull off one election, but Harris just wasn't strong as a frontrunner, and Walz was not a strong running mate, either. VP selection just doesn't seem to be thoughtful, and over the years, VPs tend to do poorly when it's their turn.

If campaigns would think more than four years ahead, they'd have their future candidate ready to go.
 
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durangodawood

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She was not well-liked, which contributed to her defeat. Nancy Pelosi once remarked that in the district represented by AOC, even a glass of water running as a Democrat would receive more votes than a GOP candidate. Unfortunately, this reflects a broader reality in American politics: 90% of voters follow party lines. The number of votes Clinton received in 2016 likely would have been earned by any Democratic candidate.
I remember that. She had an abrasive sort of vibe.

But the the voters still preferred her over the alternative.
 
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DaisyDay

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Calling half the country a "basket of deplorables" is what you would consider running a good campaign?
She didn't do that. Lying about that apparently is running a good campaign.
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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The elections are won and lost by a couple million people in the swing states. If polling is to be believed, they change their minds multiple times throughout a campaign. When Biden dropped out, they swung from Trump to Harris, and then back to Trump, with possibly a couple more reversals among the way.

One thing I'm noticing is that very few VP choices over the years have also been strong frontrunner candidates. Bush Sr was the last one I remember who had the creds and personality, despite being the most corrupt person in DC since Nixon. Quayle was a joke. Gore was close. Cheney had creds, but could never have won the general, even with a strong heart. Biden was able to pull off one election, but Harris just wasn't strong as a frontrunner, and Walz was not a strong running mate, either. VP selection just doesn't seem to be thoughtful, and over the years, VPs tend to do poorly when it's their turn.

If campaigns would think more than four years ahead, they'd have their future candidate ready to go.
In the 2020 DNC primary, Harris was not considered a particularly strong candidate. Her campaign struggled to gain momentum, and her positions often shifted depending on prevailing opinions. While she delivered some effective responses during the debate, these moments were limited. Overall, Harris did not demonstrate the qualities typically associated with an accomplished politician.

If a primary were held in 2024, it is unlikely that she would have secured the nomination.

Throughout her campaign ( 3 month) and up to the election in 2024 , she consistently appeared well-prepared and composed. However, all her appearances were carefully choreographed, and apart from the debate stage with President Trump, she rarely faced challenging or conflicting situations.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Are you serious?
Trump says worse about the left several times a week but you guys eat it up with the appropriate cultery and then BEG for more.

This comment from 9 years ago gets brought up like you're traumatized by witnessing a murder.
What about it?
 
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A2SG

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Being close to win is irrelevant; she was defeated.
No one is saying otherwise.

In 2016, aside from Senator Sanders—who was not a Democrat—there were no credible challengers to Secretary Clinton. Democratic leadership assumed it was Clinton's turn and believed no one could defeat her. Primaries should involve a competitive process so voters can choose their preferred candidate, but that was not the case for Democrats in the 2016 primary.
I seem to recall primaries back then, with more than one candidate, at least at the onset. Bernie, as I recall, lasted longer than the others, but Clinton was not the only candidate, so Democrats did have a choice. She got more votes than anyone else, and that's why she secured the party nomination.

Same way these things normally work.

Did James Comey’s outburst about Clinton a week before the election affect the results? I believe so, especially since he kept the investigation into Trump private. Did Russian social media propaganda against Clinton have an impact? However, these were not the sole factors contributing to Clinton's loss in the election.
That didn't help, as I said. But, you're right, they were not the sole factors. The electoral college was. The fact remains, more Americans voted for Clinton than Trump, but for no more reason than the way the electoral college is organized, Trump got the requisite 270+ electoral votes, and Clinton did not.

And that's why she was not president in 2017.

If there had been more candidates in the 2016 primary, issues like emails, servers, and classified information might have been discussed more openly, giving voters a fair chance to evaluate everyone carefully. Instead, voters were left with only Clinton as their option.
There were six candidates in April, 2015 prior to the Iowa caucus. After that, the two leading candidates continued their campaigns, the rest did not. Democrats in Iowa made that determination, not the party. If you want to blame anyone for a lack of candidates going forward from there, blame Iowa Democrats.

Hillary Clinton, while recognized for her intelligence and policy positions, she had no charisma like her husband or President Obama. Her style lacks the inspirational quality typically associated with highly charismatic politicians. While President Trump’s policies may not appeal to everyone, he demonstrated the ability to energize his base much like Presidents Obama and Clinton did during their campaigns. Charismatic politicians tend to motivate voters, whereas those perceived as more reserved and analytical, such as Hillary Clinton, may face challenges in cultivating similar enthusiasm. Do you know she did not visit two important states needed to win: Michigan and Wisconsin, during either the primary or general election. Instead, her campaign focused on Georgia and Arizona.
You're not wrong on any of those points. Clinton absolutely could have run a better campaign. I seem to recall Bill telling her exactly that back in the day. But, in the end, for all her deficiencies and errors during her campaign, she got more votes than her opponent. That fact hasn't changed. It just didn't matter.

It appears that the Democrats didn’t learn anything from 2016 election. Even after nine years, many continue to attribute their loss to external factors such as Russia's involvement and James Comey's actions. They made the same mistake in 2024 by nominating a candidate who received no primary votes.
I'm still unclear on the lesson to be learned from the 2016 election. Get rid of the electoral college, perhaps? Go with a strictly popular vote for President. I'm all for that, I was saying that long before 2016. I believe the electoral college, whatever the reason for its existence, isn't necessary.


We the people preferred Trump over Clinton in 2016.
Nope. More of we, the people voted for Hilary than for Trump. It was the electoral college that decided otherwise.

-- A2SG, it's a fact. You can look it up anywhere you like....
 
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A2SG

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Well, you are ignoring the fact that she claimed that it was James Comey who "tanked" her campaign right before the election, implying that if Comey had not, she would have won. So, she either knew perfectly well what happened and is being disingenuous, or you both are gaslighting in an attempt to walk back her statement.
No, that's her opinion. You're free to disagree with her opinion, of course, but she has every right to hold it, and I happen to agree there's some merit to it. But, it is speculative. We have no way to know what might have happened had Comey not made that announcement: he did, and what happened happened.

But, what cannot be disputed is the fact that more Americans voted for Hilary Clinton than Donald Trump in 2016. It just didn't matter what more Americans wanted, because of the way the electoral college works.

Calling half the country a "basket of deplorables" is what you would consider running a good campaign?
That is not what she said. You know, since MAGA is so hung up on how Trump is quoted "out of context" or "misrepresented", they sure prefer to indulge in that practice themselves.

Here are Clinton's exact words:

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?” Clinton said. “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”

She admitted she was being "grossly generalistic," and she also specifically said she was referring to "half of Trump's supporters" not half the country. And she then went on to specify exactly which half of Trump's supporters she was referring to.

So, if you're going to refer to Clinton's words, please try not to misrepresent them, or quote them out of context.

-- A2SG, it'd be a big help.....
 
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rambot

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The issue here is one of proportionality and response. Equating harsh social media commentary from Trump with instances of people publicly celebrating the violent death of a political opponent—mocking the victim and calling for further violence—dismisses a significant moral distinction between the two behaviors.
Stop.
You were referring to ther basket of deplorable commentary.

Don't change the goalposts in the hopes of making trumps bloviating caustic juices seems fair and reasonable.



From a statistical perspective, it appears that while most individuals firmly reject political violence, there remains a minority who openly condone it, even if anonymously.
Yes. I'm not surprised that when they experience so much more violence as a victim that they are more likely wanting to lash out.



This creates an environment where clear condemnation is lacking, raising reasonable concerns about the standards being set. On these forums, there is a subset of liberals who have expressed approval of or even celebrated attacks on figures like Kirk, with some wishing for similar incidents to occur to others but will never openly admit it.
It's learned behaviour. We saw conservatives commenting inappropriately on violence at left political and we just ASSUMED that you were okay with it since the right participated in it too.
 
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Pommer

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Here are Clinton's exact words:

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?” Clinton said. “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”
I would guess that, after months of being lauded and loved on the campaign trail, that shooting one’s mouth off is a hazard best avoided and that is rarely done. (Mitt had the “47%” leak and it was downhill from there.)
 
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