Kathy Hochul endorses Zohran Mamdani’s bid for mayor

[Valletta]

Kathy Hochul endorses Zohran Mamdani’s bid for mayor

The moderate Democratic governor lauds the hard left nominee’s affordability push.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Valletta]

Kathy Hochul endorses Zohran Mamdani’s bid for mayor

The moderate Democratic governor lauds the hard left nominee’s affordability push.

www.yahoo.com

This is the trend of the Democratic Party, a move toward Marxism and socialism. They are going for Hochul and AOC and Sanders, government run grocery stores, social workers replacing a large part of the police force, all kinds of free stuff without worrying about paying for it. Sounds like a Utopia, but soon the people become poorer and are controlled and dominated more and more by their leaders. It's an easier sell than conservatism because so many supposedly free services and goods are offered. The conservative, or common sense and realistic approach, is that the people will eventually have to pay for it all, and that the government almost always does a much worse job than the private sector in efficiency and distribution.

 

[Tinker Grey]

a move toward Marxism and socialism.

Apparently, you don't know what these words mean.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Apparently, you don't know what these words mean.

Does Mamdani (or the DSA) know what those words mean?

He's a member of the party called Democratic Socialists of America, a group that's given glowing write-ups about Hugo Chavez.

Hugo Chávez: A World-Historical Leader

The ten-year anniversary of the passing of President Hugo Chávez of Venezuela reminds us what an important leader the world lost on March 5th, 2013.

international.dsausa.org

This example of steadfastly pursuing an anti-capitalist, pro-socialist, and anti-imperialist program inspired movements and people in the rest of Latin America to elect similar leftist leaders throughout the region between 2003 and 2010, bringing forth the first so-called “pink tide” in Latin America. His efforts to redistribute Venezuela’s wealth, to re-democratize the country’s political system, and to build international solidarity within the Global South almost single-handedly put socialism back on the agenda for people the world over.

Chávez not only re-popularized the idea of socialism, he also empowered the people to renew it and to re-think it, emphasizing that socialism is more than just social justice, that it also must be radically democratic and participatory. This revival of socialism and expansion of what socialism can mean is at the heart of why Chávez remains a world-historical leader and most-revered comrade to the DSA.

And sends out "birthday wishes" to Karl on his B-day.

Happy Brithday Karl Marx - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

www.dsausa.org

(and apparently needs a spell checker)

They even have book clubs where they read the works of Marx

Events for September 2025 – Seattle Democratic Socialists of America

seattledsa.org

Capital Vol. I: DSA Reading Group Kickoff! - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

RSVP Here DSA’s National Political Education Committee is beyond excited to invite you to read (or re-read!) Karl Marx’s Capital, Volume I with fellow DSAers! This is a fantastic opportunity to bring us all together to discuss a fundamental text. Whether you consider yourself a Marxist or not...

www.dsausa.org

(and refer to his works as "fundamental texts")

Their words:
While the occasion for this reading group is the publication of the new translation of Capital coming out this month (and many comrades are very excited about that), any version that you prefer to follow along with the conversation is OK--whether it's the free version on marxists.org, the classic Penguin edition, the brand-new Princeton translation, or another preferred version. Any level of familiarity with the text coming in is also OK--whether it's your very first time or your umpteenth, we want you to participate. We intend to make it accessible, comradely, and a rich ground for us to listen and contribute.

RSVP for our October 1 call, and we'll see you soon, comrades!


Perhaps if the DSA doesn't want to be associated with Marxism and Socialism, they should consider name change and hiring a branding and image consultant to work on some different strategies to avoid some of these unfortunate mistakes.



Did I win? Feels like I won...

 

[ThatRobGuy]

This is the trend of the Democratic Party, a move toward Marxism and socialism.

There's a PR problem associated with aligning oneself with the DSA.

As I laid out in my post above, the DSA overtly celebrates and embraces aspects of Marxism and Socialism, and then when a politician associates themselves with that party, and gets called out on the carpet for it by Republicans, the regular Democrats come along and act like the "call out" is absurd, typically with something along the lines of "It's not actual socialism, it's democratic socialism, they just want to be like Denmark and Finland"

...the writings and publications from the DSA suggest otherwise.

Perhaps it's just ignorance of what the DSA really stands for, or perhaps it's some of what Ruy Teixeira referred to as "the Fox News Fallacy", where there's an instinctive reaction from some on to left to assume that any accusation coming from a conservative source must automatically be dismissed as an exaggeration.


If "We want to be like the Scandinavian countries" is really what people want, then they should probably think about organizing under a new moniker/name. Call it something like the "Nordic Democrats" or something to that effect.

But aligning with a group that praises Hugo Chavez (specifically for his anti-capitalist views), hosts "Karl Marx book club" nights, and then eyerolling at assertions that there's a link to socialism and Marxism is silly. I'm betting dollars to donuts that many who give vocal support to the DSA likely don't know what they're actually about, they just know that "I heard Democratic Socialism is what Denmark has, so they must be cool"

Which, as the Danish PM stated in a speech at the Harvard Kennedy School, Denmark isn't socialist.

 

[FireDragon76]

There's a PR problem associated with aligning oneself with the DSA.

As I laid out in my post above, the DSA overtly celebrates and embraces aspects of Marxism and Socialism, and then when a politician associates themselves with that party, and gets called out on the carpet for it by Republicans, the regular Democrats come along and act like the "call out" is absurd, typically with something along the lines of "It's not actual socialism, it's democratic socialism, they just want to be like Denmark and Finland"

...the writings and publications from the DSA suggest otherwise.

Perhaps it's just ignorance of what the DSA really stands for, or perhaps it's some of what Ruy Teixeira referred to as "the Fox News Fallacy", where there's an instinctive reaction from some on to left to assume that any accusation coming from a conservative source must automatically be dismissed as an exaggeration.


If "We want to be like the Scandinavian countries" is really what people want, then they should probably think about organizing under a new moniker/name. Call it something like the "Nordic Democrats" or something to that effect.

But aligning with a group that praises Hugo Chavez (specifically for his anti-capitalist views), hosts "Karl Marx book club" nights, and then eyerolling at assertions that there's a link to socialism and Marxism is silly. I'm betting dollars to donuts that many who give vocal support to the DSA likely don't know what they're actually about, they just know that "I heard Democratic Socialism is what Denmark has, so they must be cool"

Which, as the Danish PM stated in a speech at the Harvard Kennedy School, Denmark isn't socialist.

Socialism isn't a dirty word, and Socialism isn't Marxism, much less Leninism or Maoism. Socialism rests on an anthropology that is critical of Enlightenment Liberalism's individualistic anthropology, but that doesn't necessarily rest on Marxian categories.

In fact the first Socialists were motivated by Christian ideals, not Marxist ones, like the British industrialist, Robert Owen. The US actually had an economist named Henry George, who was a socialist economist before Karl Marx's Das Kapital.

At one time the British Labour party was dominated by members of the Fabian Society, which was an explicitly Gradualist Socialist movement.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Socialism isn't a dirty word, and Socialism isn't Marxism, much less Leninism or Maoism. Socialism rests on an anthropology that is critical of Enlightenment Liberalism's individualistic anthropology, but that doesn't necessarily rest on Marxian categories.

In fact the first Socialists were motivated by Christian ideals, not Marxist ones, like the British industrialist, Robert Owen. The US actually had an economist named Henry George, who was a socialist economist before Karl Marx's Das Kapital.

At one time the British Labour party was dominated by members of the Fabian Society, which was an explicitly Gradualist Socialist movement.

Right, but in this case, the DSA openly praises Marx and celebrates his life/work, and describes his writings as "fundamental texts" for their association.

So while I understand there's different "flavors" of socialism, the DSA's publications (and who they opt to put on a pedestal) clearly indicate which flavor they support.

In addition to the links from their website I provided above, they're also doing stuff like this:

Comrade du Bard: Marx for the Masses - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

In order to become agents of change, we have to become the heroes of our own narratives.

www.dsausa.org

 

[wing2000]

They are going for Hochul and AOC and Sanders, government run grocery stores, social workers replacing a large part of the police force, all kinds of free stuff without worrying about paying for it.

Citation?

 

[FireDragon76]

Right, but in this case, the DSA openly praises Marx and celebrates his life/work, and describes his writings as "fundamental texts" for their association.

So while I understand there's different "flavors" of socialism, the DSA's publications (and who they opt to put on a pedestal) clearly indicate which flavor they support.

In addition to the links from their website I provided above, they're also doing stuff like this:

Comrade du Bard: Marx for the Masses - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

In order to become agents of change, we have to become the heroes of our own narratives.

www.dsausa.org

The DSA isn't exclusively Marxist, it's a coalition party made of Libertarian-Left Anarchists as well as Marxists.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The DSA isn't exclusively Marxist, it's a coalition party made of Libertarian-Left Anarchists as well as Marxists.

So which of those two varieties would Mamdami be?... he doesn't strike me as much of a libertarian anarchist

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Citation?

Mamdani is promising government-run grocery stores. How would that work?

The goal: to make food cheaper and more accessible

theweek.com

Per CBS New York:
Mamdani said the cost of hiring enough social workers to take over the cases where cops are not needed at first is part of his $1 billion estimate to get DCS up and running. He does not expect challenges finding enough people to fully staff the department.

"We have to pay people what they're worth," he said.

Mamdani does not foresee hiring more NYPD officers


As far as other things he wanting to make free, he lists them out on his official website:

Zohran for NYC

Zohran Mamdani is running for Mayor to lower the cost of living for working class New Yorkers.

www.zohranfornyc.com

 

[wing2000]

Mamdani said the cost of hiring enough social workers to take over the cases where cops are not needed at first is part of his $1 billion estimate to get DCS up and running. He does not expect challenges finding enough people to fully staff the department.

IMO, that's an appropriate use of government resources. Too often, police resources are called into situations where a social worker would be better equipped to handle the situation.

Here's an example of such a program: Mesa, AZ

"In June of 2021, the Mesa Police Department created a program with Behavioral Health Service Provider Solari. This program provides a Solari clinician to work alongside 911 call takers in our Public Safety Dispatch Center. 911 calls that can be worked by Solari’s crisis network call center are transferred away from Police and Fire dispatch.

Solari is the highest volume crisis call center in Arizona, taking over 25,000 calls per month. As of June 2021, this initiative has transferred an average of 300 calls per month to the Solari crisis call center.

In 2022 there were over 3500 diverted 911 calls for service from Police and Fire to Solari."

Mental Health

Mesa Police collaborating with community partners to provide appropriate resources to individuals affected by a mental health crisis or mental illness.

www.mesaaz.gov

 

[FireDragon76]

So which of those two varieties would Mamdami be?... he doesn't strike me as much of a libertarian anarchist

He's a gradualist or pragmatist. The DSA is not a vanguard Leninist party, and not everybody in the party is Marxist in orientation, though most are to some degree. Marx's ideas in general have been influential beyond strict Marxist-Leninist revolutionary circles, even outside of fields like economics.

 

[FireDragon76]

There's a PR problem associated with aligning oneself with the DSA.

As I laid out in my post above, the DSA overtly celebrates and embraces aspects of Marxism and Socialism, and then when a politician associates themselves with that party, and gets called out on the carpet for it by Republicans, the regular Democrats come along and act like the "call out" is absurd, typically with something along the lines of "It's not actual socialism, it's democratic socialism, they just want to be like Denmark and Finland"

...the writings and publications from the DSA suggest otherwise.

Perhaps it's just ignorance of what the DSA really stands for, or perhaps it's some of what Ruy Teixeira referred to as "the Fox News Fallacy", where there's an instinctive reaction from some on to left to assume that any accusation coming from a conservative source must automatically be dismissed as an exaggeration.


If "We want to be like the Scandinavian countries" is really what people want, then they should probably think about organizing under a new moniker/name. Call it something like the "Nordic Democrats" or something to that effect.

But aligning with a group that praises Hugo Chavez (specifically for his anti-capitalist views), hosts "Karl Marx book club" nights, and then eyerolling at assertions that there's a link to socialism and Marxism is silly. I'm betting dollars to donuts that many who give vocal support to the DSA likely don't know what they're actually about, they just know that "I heard Democratic Socialism is what Denmark has, so they must be cool"

Which, as the Danish PM stated in a speech at the Harvard Kennedy School, Denmark isn't socialist.

Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism can look similar, but differ in their ideals. Both are committed to electoral democracy, however Democratic Socialism rejects capitalism as an ideal, whereas Social Democracy believes capitalism is necessary, but must be regulated to serve the public good. It's a subtle point.

 

[Valletta]

IMO, that's an appropriate use of government resources. Too often, police resources are called into situations where a social worker would be better equipped to handle the situation.

Here's an example of such a program: Mesa, AZ

"In June of 2021, the Mesa Police Department created a program with Behavioral Health Service Provider Solari. This program provides a Solari clinician to work alongside 911 call takers in our Public Safety Dispatch Center. 911 calls that can be worked by Solari’s crisis network call center are transferred away from Police and Fire dispatch.

Solari is the highest volume crisis call center in Arizona, taking over 25,000 calls per month. As of June 2021, this initiative has transferred an average of 300 calls per month to the Solari crisis call center.

In 2022 there were over 3500 diverted 911 calls for service from Police and Fire to Solari."

Mental Health

Mesa Police collaborating with community partners to provide appropriate resources to individuals affected by a mental health crisis or mental illness.

www.mesaaz.gov

Police need to be able to do their jobs and not be constantly questioned every time a black is shot, instead they need to be given respect for doing a tough job. With soft prosecutors and no bail police are discouraged. Families need fathers. The music glorifying the shooting of police is a problem, that whole culture. Black kids should not be taught they are the victims of systemic racism and that their crimes are a result of that. Responsibility and accountability are critical. The children are being abandoned at a young age, they need to be provided a good disciplined education and tough penalties for misbehavior early on.

 

[wing2000]

Police need to be able to do their jobs and not be constantly questioned every time a black is shot, instead they need to be given respect for doing a tough job. With soft prosecutors and no bail police are discouraged. Families need fathers. The music glorifying the shooting of police is a problem, that whole culture. Black kids should not be taught they are the victims of systemic racism and that their crimes are a result of that. Responsibility and accountability are critical. The children are being abandoned at a young age, they need to be provided a good disciplined education and tough penalties for misbehavior early on.

...once again, a deflection to some other topic, failing to address what I posted.

 

[Belk]

Police need to be able to do their jobs and not be constantly questioned every time a black is shot, instead they need to be given respect for doing a tough job. With soft prosecutors and no bail police are discouraged. Families need fathers. The music glorifying the shooting of police is a problem, that whole culture. Black kids should not be taught they are the victims of systemic racism and that their crimes are a result of that. Responsibility and accountability are critical. The children are being abandoned at a young age, they need to be provided a good disciplined education and tough penalties for misbehavior early on.

Right? Can you imagine a world were people started freaking out and asking questions simply because someone got shot.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

IMO, that's an appropriate use of government resources. Too often, police resources are called into situations where a social worker would be better equipped to handle the situation.

But resources are finite.

I touched on this in another thread a while back about these intervention programs (LA's implementation was the topic of discussion in that thread)

The dynamic would be the old "Jacks of all trades" vs. "Masters of one"

In 2020, a total of 14,902 LAPD employees (both sworn officers and civilian staff) made a total of $1.71 billion. Four years later, the department shrank to 12,617 employees but cost the city $1.73 billion – an increase due at least in part to the boost in costly overtime pay to cover for the shortage of sworn officers.

But despite the thinner ranks and thicker payroll, local policymakers have opted for further cuts to the department’s manpower, which could drive up overtime pay even more.


Of the ~15,000 LAPD officers that were on the payroll in 2020, about 1200 of them had undergone an intermediate level 6-month training (MHIT) on dealing with mental health issues and domestic dispute de-escalation.

Are they as a good at it as a mental health professional who specializes in it? Obviously not.

But when there's already staffing shortages and a variety of issues (both violent and non-violent), replacing a portion of "Jacks of all trades" with "Masters of one" creates some logistical challenges.

Basically you're taking a person who:
Is "okay/slightly above average" at being able to respond to a domestic dispute -- but can also respond to a car theft, bank robbery, or a stabbing in a park
And replacing them with a person who:
Is absolutely amazing at handling the domestic disputes -- but can't offer much help on those other things

It's a not a reciprocal backup situation.

 

[wing2000]

It's a not a reciprocal backup situation.

Of course not.
The point is, it's a more efficient use of finite resources to divert police to situations that require their intervention than sending the jack-of-trades to address a mental health issue.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Right? Can you imagine a world were people started freaking out and asking questions simply because someone got shot.

I can't speak for the other poster, but I assume by "questioning", they were referring to the accusatory tone type of "questioning" and not mere inquiry.

In a sense that, when police shootings occur, it's often a case where everyone assumes the worst possible motive, and starts disseminating skewed versions of the story.

The Michael Brown Ferguson story of 2014 would be a good example of that. It started a whole wave of "hands up don't shoot" protests and people demanding the officer be fired and insisting that it was a case what warranted a bigger national conversation about "re-thinking how we do law enforcement"

The only problem with that whole thing:

On March 4, 2015, the Department of Justice, headed by President Obama appointment Eric Holder, released their report of the investigation into the events. President Obama said of the investigation that he had "complete confidence and [stands] fully behind the Justice Department...” This report found that physical and forensic evidence contradicted witnesses who claimed that Brown had his hands up when Wilson shot him. It also stated that witnesses whose testimony aligned with the physical and forensic evidence never "perceived Brown to be attempting to surrender at any point when Wilson fired upon him." The report concluded there was no justification for a prosecution of Officer Wilson.

https://www.npr.org/2015/03/17/393646640/hands-up-dont-shoot-movement-built-on-false-rumors-columnist-says