Charlie Kirk shooting suspect Tyler Robinson could face firing squad

[BPPLEE]

Considering how this guy, and the Healthcare CEO killer (Luigi) and others are deciding to remain alive after they do their assassinating, I'm starting to wonder if they value the admiration they get from their fans more than they fear any punishment they'll receive.

My point was that people don’t fear the death penalty when they think they are going to get away with their crimes. They are more likely to refrain from committing crimes if there’s a high probability that they will get caught, regardless of the severity of their punishment.
But I agree with you, I think they like the attention more than they fear being executed

 

[Servus]

Considering how this guy, and the Healthcare CEO killer (Luigi) and others are deciding to remain alive after they do their assassinating, I'm starting to wonder if they value the admiration they get from their fans more than they fear any punishment they'll receive.

Probably that and also maybe expecting to not get caught. If that one camera hadn't been were it was Robinson may not have been identified.

 

[MehGuy]

Hardly. The people heard on social media are always the loud minority, the vast majority don't post at all. It's pretty useless to draw conclusions from that.

Your point is food for thought.

 

[Stopped_lurking]

I think the general people on the left's thoughts actually carry more weight than what their scripted politicians have to say about this assassination. Especially in this day and age of social media.

What you see in social media is a function of what drives engagement and your own habits. It's not likely to be representative of society at large. Rage bait is very effective in driving engagement.

 

[FireDragon76]

This will surely bring peace and closure to the Kirk family. Maybe they can televise it like Charlie wanted. Executing this 22 year old in an equally violent fashion may even bring our troubled country together. The solution of course is more violence.

Taylor Lorenz has been talking about the rich irony of American pundits decrying "political violence" on her Youtube channel. The American political project is saturated in the logic of necropolitics- the politics of deciding who lives, and who dies.

Have you ever seen the Stanley Kubrick film, Dr. Strangelove? It's a dark, satirical look at Cold War brinkmanship and necropolitics. At one point, character, President Merkin Muffley shouts out, "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!" An appeal to civility amidst an institution dedicated to perpetuating violence.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

That's ignoring the aspect that the sitting president and vice president were close personal friends of the victim.

What also need to be factored in is that Utah currently holds the record for the fastest firing squad execution, from the time of conviction to sentence being carried out, of 5 months (the Gary Gilmore case)

We're living in weird times...at lot of things that we'd never thought would ever happen are happening. It's very possible that this particular case could break that record for "swift justice"

Gilmore was nearly 50 years ago and asked for the death penalty. Things have changed since then, with the average speed of cases from conviction to execution being 18-20 years and the overall political climate being less friendly to execution as a form of punishment. In 20 years, we will have had 5 presidential elections, meaning at least 3 other presidents and vice presidents. The current president will likely be not alive by then.

And while I’m pro-death penalty (in general), I don’t think the victim of a crime being the friend of a sitting president should factor in to the judicial process. This isn’t North Korea.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I used to strongly support the death penalty but two people that I arrested have been put to death, both over 20 years after they committed their crimes and other than the families of the victims I don’t think very many people noticed or cared. I really don’t think it accomplished much in the way of deterring crime.

I generally support it as well, but I never thought it would or did deter crime beyond deterring that specific person. Especially now, where so many do these things and then either plan to self-dispatch or ultimately self-dispatch via officer.

 

[Desk trauma]

yes, it's a defense.

Utah abolished the traditional insanity defense and has a much more narrow partial option that only applies to intent components within a crime.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Gilmore was nearly 50 years ago and asked for the death penalty. Things have changed since then, with the average speed of cases from conviction to execution being 18-20 years and the overall political climate being less friendly to execution as a form of punishment. In 20 years, we will have had 5 presidential elections, meaning at least 3 other presidents and vice presidents. The current president will likely be not alive by then.

And while I’m pro-death penalty (in general), I don’t think the victim of a crime being the friend of a sitting president should factor in to the judicial process. This isn’t North Korea.

I'm not suggesting that should be factored in, I'm simply suggesting that it could be.

 

[bèlla]

I sincerely hope not. He's 22; hardly out of adolescence, born into a time of political division, social media and disinformation. Society is partly to blame.

I’m not responsible for his decision to murder Charlie Kirk nor is society. It’s interesting you overlooked the most likely party who bears accountability for his character. At 22 years of age the bulk of his time has been spent in the company of his parents not the strangers you have in mind.

They raised the miscreant and well adjusted citizens don’t murder people they disagree with. It’s unlikely there weren’t signs he had a problem or hostility towards certain subjects or groups. You don’t wake up and become a killer. Put the buck where it belongs. He did the deed and it’s on him entirely.

Capital punishment is fine. He killed a law abiding citizen with a wife and family in the prime of his life. Arguing the merits of rehabilitation in light of his age while ignoring the other is reckless. Charlie was young as well but he didn’t have a say. Sparing his life isn’t an equitable trade. What was lost was greater than what remains.

~bella

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I'm not suggesting that should be factored in, I'm simply suggesting that it could be.

That’s for certain. I hope not, but…

 

[Tropical Wilds]

HOW DARE YOU!

Listen. I am a licensed psychiatrist and as such, I can...oh wait, I just remembered I'm an unlicensed psychiatrist, BUT I have the internet, and I can assure you that persons with pink and green hair dancing around and singing about how happy they are that an inoffensive young father of two was murdered are insane.

What is the far right’s fixation with hair color? In these liberal fantasies they have, it’s always people with blue hair or green hair or pink hair… It’s the weirdest thing.

 

[Chesterton]

What is the far right’s fixation with hair color? In these liberal fantasies they have, it’s always people with blue hair or green hair or pink hair… It’s the weirdest thing.

As a teenager I was a punk rocker In the early '80's. I died my hair in weird colors, as did some of my friends. We did it to be weird and shocking and funny. Nowadays Leftists want non-human hair colors to be accepted as normal, just as they want many abnormal things to become normal. Symbolism is important.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

As a teenager I was a punk rocker In the early '80's. I died my hair in weird colors, as did some of my friends. We did it to be weird and shocking and funny. Nowadays Leftists want non-human hair colors to be accepted as normal, just as they want many abnormal things to become normal. Symbolism is important.

So when you did it, you did it for a purpose that was just for you and that was Ok, but when people do it now it’s something you foam at the mouth about…?

Interesting.

 

[Chesterton]

So when you did it, you did it for a purpose that was just for you and that was Ok, but when people do it now it’s something you foam at the mouth about…?

Interesting.

Exactly.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Considering how this guy, and the Healthcare CEO killer (Luigi) and others are deciding to remain alive after they do their assassinating, I'm starting to wonder if they value the admiration they get from their fans more than they fear any punishment they'll receive.

I suspect it is more about suicide/self harm.

These mass shooters keep ending up dead (or trying to) as it seems many of them want to die and choose harming others as their method or at least their final act. For the United Healthcare CEO killer and the Turning Point USA founder killer, in both cases alleged and apparent, it was a specific, semi-prominent individual that was targeted and they don't seem to have been suicidal.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Killing this kid, which if they do, not my problem, I won’t shed a tear, but thinking that’s going to somehow bring down the temperature in the country strikes me as awfully naive, especially coming from a rational guy like yourself, Rob.

People having an outlet for their frustrations (even if that outlet isn't 100% ethical) is well-understood concept.

Do we recall back in 2020 when CNN ran the bit about "Show me where it says protesting has to be peaceful", and several cities were pulling back on enforcement of vandalism, and there people were suggesting things to the effect of "insurance will pay for it, these protestors need room to vent, express their rage, and get and get it out of their system"

(Two pieces that come to mind are "In defense of destroying property", and another called "In defense of looting")

Those kinds of statements are an acknowledgment of the mindset I'm referring to.


So if a person says
A) "Throwing a brick through a store window is, and should be illegal, and is not a good thing"
B) "The state executing someone for murder should be illegal, and is not a good thing"

But then hedges with
"However, if it's a pressure release value to let them throw a few bricks, get's the rage out of their system, and then they cool off after a few days and go back to normal, rather than letting it built up into something much worse -- then I guess it's the lesser of evils"

...but doesn't hold the same view about the latter.

Then they're not really arguing against the psychological concept I'm describing, they're simply arguing about "where the line is" on the scale of "what immoral things should we make rare exceptions in order for a person to get it out of their system"


Not that this thread is place for joking, but kind of reminds me of that old joke
Where the guys says to a woman "Would you sleep with me for 10 million dollars?" and she says "obviously I would", and then he says "How about ten bucks?" and she says "No way, I'm not some sort of prostitute!" to which he replies "We already established that you were, now we're just haggling over price"

 

[iluvatar5150]

It’s interesting you overlooked the most likely party who bears accountability for his character. At 22 years of age the bulk of his time has been spent in the company of his parents not the strangers you have in mind.

They raised the miscreant and well adjusted citizens don’t murder people they disagree with. It’s unlikely there weren’t signs he had a problem or hostility towards certain subjects or groups. You don’t wake up and become a killer. Put the buck where it belongs.

I don't know... That attitude does make things "easy" but I can hypothesize a lot of scenarios where this wouldn't have been obvious to them. For one thing, he was 22 and likely not even having lived at home for a few years. Second, this is the age where a lot of mental illnesses start popping up. Somebody brought up in a conservative religious household would've likely had a lot of practice disciplining themselves to put on a good face in public or code switching to act nicely around others.

I realize it's a piece of fiction, but the Netflix show Adolescence dealt with this situation very well.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Exactly.

And you don’t find that to be kind of a hypocritical double standard that when you do it, it’s ok but when others do it, they’re wrong?

 

[Chesterton]

And you don’t find that to be kind of a hypocritical double standard that when you do it, it’s ok but when others do it, they’re wrong?

Again, I don't log on to CF to teach you reading comprehension. Figure it out yourself, or not.