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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
A conversation about unity.
- Thread starter Xeno.of.athens
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In Orthodoxy it would be equivalent to the Holy Synod of a local church.
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ralliann
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- Jun 27, 2007
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I am not asking about you. I am asking if All Catholics have to pray to her, as co-mediatrix. I am under the impression that is so. would I be instructed to say hail Mary's for penance?
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That's a relief.
No one "has to pray" to Blessed Mary. Why on earth would you believe otherwise?
That's just a theological title, speculative and NOT dogmatic.
That impression is wrong.
Possibly, you could object - say something like, "I object to praying the rosary, I dislike doing it".
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You do understand, I hope, that a penance cannot be enforced, right? It is always a voluntary act of obedience to perform the penance.
No, your stated impression is wrong. Just completely wrong.
️ On the Title “Co-Mediatrix”
The Catholic Church has not defined the title Co-Mediatrix as a dogma. While the Church permits and encourages Marian devotion, including invocation under titles such as Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix (cf. Lumen Gentium §62, Second Vatican Council), it has not declared the term Co-Mediatrix as binding upon the faithful. The Church teaches that “no creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer” (Lumen Gentium §62), thereby safeguarding the unique mediatorship of Christ (cf. 1 Timothy 2:5).
Thus, although Marian titles such as Mediatrix of all graces are theologically permissible and widely held in devotional contexts, they do not constitute dogma. The faithful are not required to affirm or use the title Co-Mediatrix, nor are they obliged to direct prayers to Mary under that designation.
On the Obligation to Pray to Mary
Catholics are not dogmatically required to pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary. However, the Church teaches that devotion to Mary is “intrinsic to Christian worship” (Catechism of the Catholic Church [CCC] §971), and encourages Marian prayers such as the Rosary as spiritually beneficial. The faithful are free to invoke her intercession, but such prayer is not obligatory in the sense of canonical or dogmatic compulsion.
On Saying Hail Marys for Penance
The assignment of Hail Marys as part of sacramental penance is a pastoral decision made by the confessor. It is not universally mandated, but is common practice. The Hail Mary itself is a biblically rooted prayer (cf. Luke 1:28, 1:42) and its use in penance reflects the Church’s esteem for Marian intercession. However, the form and content of penance are not dogmatically fixed and may vary.
Dogmatic Sources Referenced
- Lumen Gentium (Dogmatic Constitution on the Church), §§60–62, Second Vatican Council
- Catechism of the Catholic Church, §§963–975, especially §971
- Council of Trent, Session XIV, on the Sacrament of Penance (regarding the confessor’s discretion)
we've had a few days of silence in this thread, and that has allowed heads to cool down. So, now we can take a step back and consider what we can do to progress unity.
We know that one can't progress unity by pretending that shrinking the faith to some tiny core that we can all agree on will allow us to achieve unity. We know that that will not work. Nor should we pretend that our differences are insignificant because we know that they are significant. But we can achieve some steps towards unity, by being very clear about what we each believe. That will give us the possibility of defining our words and deciding what we really do stand for and what we can negotiate. It is possible that there are no areas that we can negotiate in which case we can anticipate that unity will not be achieved.
Catholics in all likelihood cannot negotiate on any area that would require denial of or modification of dogma. Protestants can voice their own restrictions. similarly, orthodox Christians, can state what their non negotiable beliefs are.
One thing seems obvious to me and that is that defining our terms is the only way we can go forward. we need to make it very clear what we think is important.
We know that one can't progress unity by pretending that shrinking the faith to some tiny core that we can all agree on will allow us to achieve unity. We know that that will not work. Nor should we pretend that our differences are insignificant because we know that they are significant. But we can achieve some steps towards unity, by being very clear about what we each believe. That will give us the possibility of defining our words and deciding what we really do stand for and what we can negotiate. It is possible that there are no areas that we can negotiate in which case we can anticipate that unity will not be achieved.
Catholics in all likelihood cannot negotiate on any area that would require denial of or modification of dogma. Protestants can voice their own restrictions. similarly, orthodox Christians, can state what their non negotiable beliefs are.
One thing seems obvious to me and that is that defining our terms is the only way we can go forward. we need to make it very clear what we think is important.
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- Mar 27, 2007
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My church has achieved unity in Christ with the Catholic Church down the block because we respect each other as Christians and treat each other as equals which is something that this thread has failed miserably to accomplish.
If unity means that we must join and recognized the primacy of doctrines by the so called ancient churches to become part of the body of Christ then count me out. Christ fully knows who His sheep are. He will sort it out when WE (including all of you) get to heaven.
If unity means that we must join and recognized the primacy of doctrines by the so called ancient churches to become part of the body of Christ then count me out. Christ fully knows who His sheep are. He will sort it out when WE (including all of you) get to heaven.
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