The Sabbath. Stunning admissions?(I have no idea where things goes otherwise)

[BobRyan]

Jesus isn't our Sabbath commander; Paul is.
The Ministration of death, means the 10Cs, is that correct?

Rom 3 - the Law of God defines what sin is
1 John 3:4 Sin is the transgression of that law

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

Where "the first commandment with a promise" is "honor your father and mother" Eph 6:1-2

Means the 10Cs are abolished.

No text says the 10 Commandments are abolished.
See James 2 -- quoting only from the Law of Moses for the commandments of God

It is still a sin "to take God's name in vain" as it turns out.

Can we sin, if 10 Cs are abolished? No.

James 2 and 1 Cor 6 and Rom 6 all point out that sin still exists and they list a few examples from the 10 C's proving it.

We have the law of Christ. Gal 6.2.

Christ is the one speaking the 10 Commandments at Sinai according to Heb 8

If Sabbath were still an issue; then why is there no mention, past Colossians?

Acts 18:4 says they were in the Synagogue "every Sabbath" preaching the Gospel and having worship.
Acts 13 says it is gentiles - not Jews -- asking for more Gospel preaching "the next Sabbath" instead of "tomorrow, Sunday"

There is no mention of "do not take God's name in vain" in the entire New Testament yet all know that this commandment still remains

 

[BobRyan]

who made Paul an apostle?

God

 

[BobRyan]

If Sabbath is still an issue; then why do I only have an "Ellen" church for Sabbath?

There are a number of Sabbath keeping denominations

• Sabbatarian Pentecostalists:
  Some Pentecostal churches, like the True Jesus Church, also keep the Saturday Sabbath.
  
  
  
• Other groups:
  The Church of God (Seventh Day), Messianic Judaism, and some other smaller groups also observe the seventh-day Sabbath

 

[BobRyan]

The Christian faith is based on Christ and Him only.

1 Cor 7:19 what matters is "keeping the Commandments of God"
Is 66:23 Sabbath to be kept by all mankind for all eternity
Mark 2:27 Christ said "Sabbath was made for mankind"
Rev 14:12 saints keep the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus
James 2 quote from the 10Cs, so also Rom 12 - so also Christ in Matt 19

keeping the law, then Christ died in vain.

The idea that if someone does not take God's name in vain - then Christ died in vain is not logical

 

[PatrickTate]

This is what SDA's believe in regards to what happens when someone dies, its what Jesus taught.


John 11: 11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”

12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.” 13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.

14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead.

Jesus is our example. When Jesus died, He rested in His tomb, did not go to heaven, and didn’t live again until He was resurrected.


Its what the apostles taught too..


1 Kings 2:10 Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David. ESV

Acts 2:29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.


1 Thes 4: 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

When Jesus comes those sleeping in Christ will raise from the dead and meet Him in the air 1 Thess 4:15-17

1 Thes 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

OK... please imagine that Lazarus may have had a testimony that could be either like the near death experience account of Kevin Zadai, or Mr. Robert Marshall or even somewhat like that of former Atheist Howard Storm?

If Lazarus had came back with a testimony that was grabbing the attention of larger and larger and larger audiences for many reasons then a certain statement in the Christian Bible may tend to make more sense.

My belief is that NDE accounts fit with String Theory and do actually correspond perfectly with death being a "sleep" because even Robert Marshall testified that he was told that some memories from this life are withheld from people in heaven until those people come to heaven or people in heaven would be extremely worried about their loved ones on earth.

I believe that at first Pastor General Herbert W. Armstrong probably meant well with his teaching on Soul Sleep but once the NDE of Dr. George Ritchie was made public by Dr. Raymond Moody it was time for the WWCG leadership to admit that we had exaggerated the intended meaning of scriptures originally in the Hebrew language and in the Greek language that sounded very different in King James English.

I remember debating this with a SDA Pastor during the 1980's and twenty or thirty years later I remember what he said and I know that he was less dogmatic and I believe more accurate in the 1980's than I was at that time but I could not understand this until the 1990's.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

OK... please imagine that Lazarus may have had a testimony that could be either like the near death experience account of Kevin Zadai, or Mr. Robert Marshall or even somewhat like that of former Atheist Howard Storm?

If Lazarus had came back with a testimony that was grabbing the attention of larger and larger and larger audiences for many reasons then a certain statement in the Christian Bible may tend to make more sense.

My belief is that NDE accounts fit with String Theory and do actually correspond perfectly with death being a "sleep" because even Robert Marshall testified that he was told that some memories from this life are withheld from people in heaven until those people come to heaven or people in heaven would be extremely worried about their loved ones on earth.

I believe that at first Pastor General Herbert W. Armstrong probably meant well with his teaching on Soul Sleep but once the NDE of Dr. George Ritchie was made public by Dr. Raymond Moody it was time for the WWCG leadership to admit that we had exaggerated the intended meaning of scriptures originally in the Hebrew language and in the Greek language that sounded very different in King James English.

I remember debating this with a SDA Pastor during the 1980's and twenty or thirty years later I remember what he said and I know that he was less dogmatic and I believe more accurate in the 1980's than I was at that time but I could not understand this until the 1990's.

I really like your previous posts when you said if its not coming from Scripture, we should be concerned. Isa 8:20

I think the Bible makes plain what happens when someone dies. Especially when its a testimony personally from Jesus.

I know our minds can come up with all sorts of things, but if we stick with what the Bible says, I believe it is a shield to the deceptions.

God bless!

 

[PatrickTate]

There are a number of Sabbath keeping denominations

• Sabbatarian Pentecostalists:
  Some Pentecostal churches, like the True Jesus Church, also keep the Saturday Sabbath.
  
  
  
• Other groups:
  The Church of God (Seventh Day), Messianic Judaism, and some other smaller groups also observe the seventh-day Sabbath

Something very unusual seems to be happening since 2001. Former Atheist Rabbi Alon Anava had one of those near death experiences and came back so motivated that he became an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi.

His seven minute brush with death reminds me of Matthew chapter four and his teaching since then remind me of Matthew chapters five, six and seven, [the Sermon on the Mount]. I believe that Christians and Jews are being set up for a massive fulfillment of Ezekiel chapter thirty seven, the twisting together of the Stick of Judah with the Stick of Joseph.

www.AlonAnava.com/

An interesting note is that I refused to take the C o v i d 1 9 vaccine partly due to the warning that I got against it from Rabbi Alon Anava which came out along with his Second near death experience that puts a new spin on the prediction in Revelation chapter twelve, [maybe]???

 

[boughtwithaprice]

1 Cor 7:19 what matters is "keeping the Commandments of God"
Is 66:23 Sabbath to be kept by all mankind for all eternity
Mark 2:27 Christ said "Sabbath was made for mankind"
Rev 14:12 saints keep the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus
James 2 quote from the 10Cs, so also Rom 12 - so also Christ in Matt 19

The idea that if someone does not take God's name in vain - then Christ died in vain is not logical

the sabbath and the ten commandments are the old covenant, which was a shadow of things to come.
We are under the New Covenant, whose commandments are more strict than the old. You can read them in Matthew 5-7
and in various teachings in the Gospel. To be in Christ is to be in self denial and taking up the cross, we do not owe our allegiance to men that say the old covenant is still in effect.
The temple of the Old Covenant has been destroyed, as Our Lord prophesied, not one stone left on another. The teaching of the Apostles whom our Lord sent, breathed on to give the power to forgive sins, and sealed with tongues of fire of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost say we worship on the Lord's day, which is the first day of the week, or rather the eighth day.
According to God's Sabbath principle of God creates then rests applies fully. God created one Church on the rock of Peter and then He rested. It is only later under the commands of men, came those that deny that creation. They say the Church apostasized and God did not protect it as He promised. According to them, we cannot rely on God's promises but must yield to their judgement.
The Bible gives us stories or typology, that shows us things to come. Just as there was David, a man after God's own heart, who recognized God's authority when presented with Saul; David said that he could not lift his hand against God's anointed. Then came Absolem who stood at the gates of the kingdom and told the Israelites they could no longer receive justice in David's kingdom, they have to follow him to get justice.
So too are those that say we need to rebel against the Apostles, and continue to keep sabbath. Forget that God anointed them and promised to be with them until the end of the age. God did not mean that and abandoned them. Abandon godly reason, and follow our human reason instead. They forget what happened to Absolem

God offers salvation to all who come to Him in repentance. We need not follow men

 

[SabbathBlessings]

the sabbath and the ten commandments are the old covenant, which was a shadow of things to come.
We are under the New Covenant, whose commandments are more strict than the old. You can read them in Matthew 5-7

But yet in the NC Jesus quoted the Old Covenant- teaching not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments and in doing so it is sin and one would be in fear of Judgement Mat 5:19-30

Do you really beleive in the NC we can now worship other gods, vain His holy name, murder, steal, covet or break the least of these commandments. Is this what the Scriptures are teaching? Of course not, this is the way to be outside the gates of heaven Rev 22:15 Gal 5:19-21 Mat 7:21-23.

Jesus taught sin starts from the heart. Sin is breaking God's law even in the NC 1 John 3:4 breaking one we break them all James 2:11. If our heart is changed, our actions are different, which is what Jesus taught, not that we can break the Ten Commandments. He promised He would not alter His words Psa 89:34, not a jot or tittle Mat 5:18-19 Why what changed is the placement of where God's laws are. From tables of stone to written on tablets of the heart 2 Cor 3:3 Heb 8:10

The shadow of things to come were the sacrificial system, not God's moral law that defines what sin is 1 John 3:4 James 2:11 Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30

What was predicted would end when Jesus came?

Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."


Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. (contrary and against)
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: "SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU DID NOT DESIRE, BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME.
Heb 10:6 IN BURNT OFFERINGS AND SACRIFICES FOR SIN YOU HAD NO PLEASURE.
Heb 10:7 THEN I SAID, 'BEHOLD, I HAVE COME—IN THE VOLUME OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME—TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.' "
Heb 10:8 Previously saying, "SACRIFICE AND OFFERING, BURNT OFFERINGS, AND OFFERINGS FOR SIN YOU DID NOT DESIRE, NOR HAD PLEASURE IN THEM" (which are offered according to the law),
Heb 10:9 then He said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD." He takes away the first that He may establish the second.

 

[HIM]

Jesus isn't our Sabbath commander; Paul is.
The Ministration of death, means the 10Cs, is that correct?
Means the 10Cs are abolished.
Can we sin, if 10 Cs are abolished? No. We have the law of Christ. Gal 6.2.
If Sabbath were still an issue; then why is there no mention, past Colossians?
No; you don't have Heb 4:9..

Who teaches this stuff., not sure where to start.

Maybe at the top. "Jesus isn't our Sabbath commander; Paul is."

Whatever gave you this idea?

 

[Clare73]

But yet in the NC Jesus quoted the Old Covenant- teaching not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments and in doing so it is sin and one would be in fear of Judgement Mat 5:19-30

I'm sure you'll understand if the focus of the born again is on Jesus' new command of the New Covenant: "love one another as I have loved you" (Jn 13:34), rather than on the obsolete Old Covenant (Heb 8:13) Decalogue: "do no harm."

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We have free will. My focus is on all the laws God writes in our hearts. Heb 8:10 2 Cor 3:3 because breaking one we break them all and have become a transgressor of the law James 2:11

 

[Clare73]

We have free will.

Not according to Jesus. . .and nowhere stated in Scripture. . .we are slaves to sin (Jn 8:34). . .slaves are not free. . .can we choose to be sinless?

My focus is on all the laws God writes in our hearts. Heb 8:10 2 Cor 3:3 because breaking one we break them all and have become a transgressor of the law James 2:11

I'm sure you'll understand if the focus of the born again is on Jesus' new command of the New Covenant: "love one another as I have loved you" (Jn 13:34), rather than on the obsolete Old Covenant (Heb 8:13) Decalogue: "do no harm."

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Only for those who do not choose to be servants of Christ. Whoever we obey is who we serve.

Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Jesus taught a lot more than one commandment. Mat 5:19-30 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 19:17-19 Mark 2:27, Mat 12:12 Mat 15:3-14 and He said to live by every word Mat 4:4

 

[HIM]

Not according to Jesus. . .and nowhere stated in Scripture. . .we are slaves to sin (Jn 8:34). . .slaves are not free. . .can we choose to be sinless?

I'm sure you'll understand if the focus of the born again is on Jesus' new command of the New Covenant: "love one another as I have loved you" (Jn 13:34), rather than on the obsolete Old Covenant (Heb 8:13) Decalogue: "do no harm."

Slave to sin are you?

 

[Clare73]

Slave to sin are you?

Jesus got it wrong?

I cannot live sinlessly in thought, word and deed. . .you can?