No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

[A New Dawn]

Adam spread physical death to all. Again spiritual death does not happen till an unbeliever is cast into the lake of fire.​

If people are spiritually alive, then why would Christ need to impart life to them? You keep quoting that one verse in an apocalyptical book and ignoring the tons of others that speak clearly to the matter.

You haven’t posted anything evidential about the spiritual no-man’s-land yet.

 

[A New Dawn]

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Read revelation where it talks about the second death, which is a spiritual death.

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Oh, so I’m supposed to take your own personal interpretation of an apocalyptic passage that creates a spiritual no-man’s-land and ignore the rest of the Bible that states man is dead in his sins and Christ makes us spiritually alive?

No thanks.

 

[d taylor]

If people are spiritually alive, then why would Christ need to impart life to them? You keep quoting that one verse in an apocalyptical book and ignoring the tons of others that speak clearly to the matter.

You haven’t posted anything evidential about the spiritual no-man’s-land yet.

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I never said they are spiritually alive, but neither are they dead, a person can believe in Jesus for Eternal Life. Then they are born again and become a permanent child of God.

It is believe, then at the very moment of belief they have a spiritual birth (being born again) and are made alive in Jesus, because they now have The Life of God living in them.

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No you just can not get past the calvinist lie that people are spiritually dead and can not believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

No the calvinist states a person must first be born again before they can believe. So talk about not having Biblical support, that clearly has no Biblical support.

 

[A New Dawn]

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I never said they are spiritually alive, but neither are they dead, a person can believe in Jesus for Eternal Life. Then they are born again and become a permanent child of God.

It is believe, then at the very moment of belief they have a spiritual birth (being born again) and are made alive in Jesus, because they now have The Life of God living in them.

​

No you just can not get past the calvinist lie that people are spiritually dead and can not believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

No the calvinist states a person must first be born again before they can believe. So talk about not having Biblical support, that clearly has no Biblical support.

The two choices are to be spiritually dead or spiritually alive. There isn’t a third option.

Christ has to step in and make the first move in order for someone to be able to have faith or seek or make a choice.

Ezekiel 36:26 “Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 36:27 “I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

It is ALL God’s doing. God chooses us and draws/drags us to Jesus. God takes out our heart of stone and gives us a heart of flesh. God gifts us saving faith and God causes us to walk in His statutes and follow His commandments.

 

[d taylor]

The two choices are to be spiritually dead or spiritually alive. There isn’t a third option.

Christ has to step in and make the first move in order for someone to be able to have faith or seek or make a choice.

Ezekiel 36:26 “Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 36:27 “I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

It is ALL God’s doing. God chooses us and draws/drags us to Jesus. God takes out our heart of stone and gives us a heart of flesh. God gifts us saving faith and God causes us to walk in His statutes and follow His commandments.

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The abuse of scripture is just amazing Ezekiel 36 is addressed to the house of Israel.

Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying: “Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own ways and deeds; to Me their way was like the uncleanness of a woman in her customary impurity.
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Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went.

 

[Brightfame52]

@A New Dawn

God has to make the first move.

Right which commences Salvation, once that intervention takes place the individual is saved and will be converted

 

[A New Dawn]

@A New Dawn



Right which commences Salvation, once that intervention takes place the individual is saved and will be converted

So you agree, then, that someone cannot come to Christ of his own free will. Great!

 

[A New Dawn]

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The abuse of scripture is just amazing Ezekiel 36 is addressed to the house of Israel.

Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying: “Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own ways and deeds; to Me their way was like the uncleanness of a woman in her customary impurity.
-----------------------------
Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

Scripture doesn’t lose its meaning, it has application in all our lives.

 

[Brightfame52]

So you agree, then, that someone cannot come to Christ of his own free will. Great!

Yes thats why I started this thread.

 

[A New Dawn]

Yes thats why I started this thread.

OK. LOL. When I said ‘No’ and you responded with “Yes”, I thought you were disagreeing with what I said. Sorry. Carry on.

 

[d taylor]

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So calvinist say a person is born spiritually dead so when did this death happen in the individual. Because for something to die, it first had to be alive. Do not say Adam, Adam brought sin into the world, he did not impart spiritual death to people, because he was never spiritually alive. Adam was created sinless and that is not the same as being created with spiritual life.

This is physical death
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—

 

[A New Dawn]

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So calvinist say a person is born spiritually dead so when did this death happen in the individual. Because for something to die, it first had to be alive. Do not say Adam, Adam brought sin into the world, he did not impart spiritual death to people, because he was never spiritually alive. Adam was created sinless and that is not the same as being created with spiritual life.

This is physical death
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—

No, that is wrong. We are not born physically dead. That’s the most ludicrous thing anyone has said here. As by one man sin entered the world, AND DEATH BY SIN. Our nature is fallen. That means we are born spiritually dead. Christ makes us ALIVE. He can’t make us alive if we are already alive. There is no clearer way to say it.

How about this - in the Garden of Eden when God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil or he would die that day, what happened? Did Adam die physically? NO! He was kicked out of the Garden and died spiritually, and with his sin, all creation fell, and that included man.

And it’s not “a Calvinist” saying it, it is the BIBLE saying it.

 

[Palmfever]

Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come here means no man has the ability to come to Christ. That cancels out the myth that man has a freewill,

It also means that no man has the ability to believe on Christ for Salvation. Because Christ equates believing on Him with coming to Him. Jn 6:64-65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


What about those Jesus says to them Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Thats answered in Jn 6:44 they simply will not come because they cannot come unless the Power of God draws them and makes them willing

Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

If and when one comes to believe on Christ willingly, the credit goes to Gods Power !

Christ's will is a given.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

He calls and few respond.
Matt 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

We need to invite Him in..
Rev 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

When He stated, "it is finished,' He acknowledged that He had opened the door to salvation for those who would seek Him.

'Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.'

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

That is an open invitation to all.
Yet few will 'chose life,' and 'endure till the end.'

 

[d taylor]

No, that is wrong. We are not born physically dead. That’s the most ludicrous thing anyone has said here. As by one man sin entered the world, AND DEATH BY SIN. Our nature is fallen. That means we are born spiritually dead. Christ makes us ALIVE. He can’t make us alive if we are already alive. There is no clearer way to say it.

How about this - in the Garden of Eden when God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil or he would die that day, what happened? Did Adam die physically? NO! He was kicked out of the Garden and died spiritually, and with his sin, all creation fell, and that included man.

And it’s not “a Calvinist” saying it, it is the BIBLE saying it.

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i am through discussing anything with you, because you misrepresent what i say. I never said people are born physically dead, but i guess that is to be expected from a calvinist

 

[d taylor]

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Aren’t Genesis 2:17 & Romans 6:23 About Spiritual Death? & When Does Spiritual Death Occur? – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[Brightfame52]

Christ's will is a given.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

He calls and few respond.
Matt 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

We need to invite Him in..
Rev 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

When He stated, "it is finished,' He acknowledged that He had opened the door to salvation for those who would seek Him.

'Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.'

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

That is an open invitation to all.
Yet few will 'chose life,' and 'endure till the end.'

False doctrine

 

[Brightfame52]

Jesus said some will not come to Him Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

The reason for that is simple, they have not been given to Christ by the Father in Divine Election, because Jesus went on to say Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Some out of mankind has been given to Christ, pertaining to election, Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

These will come to Him that they may have life in contrast to them in Jn 5:40 who will not come ! 10

 

[A New Dawn]

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i am through discussing anything with you, because you misrepresent what i say. I never said people are born physically dead, but i guess that is to be expected from a calvinist

See your own post 631.

This is physical death
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Your own words. But Adam didn’t die. He was kicked out of the garden and lived for hundreds of years. What DID happen was that he rebelled against God and became the reason sin entered the world. The world, including Adam, fell and he became the spokesperson for man in the eyes of God.

If that is speaking about physical death, as opposed to spiritual death, then, reading that with any sense of logicallity, men are physically born dead, which is a non-thing. You can’t be dead and alive at the same time. They are born spiritually dead.

 

[Palmfever]

Jesus said some will not come to Him Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

The reason for that is simple, they have not been given to Christ by the Father in Divine Election, because Jesus went on to say Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Some out of mankind has been given to Christ, pertaining to election, Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

These will come to Him that they may have life in contrast to them in Jn 5:40 who will not come ! 10

I simply gave scripture.
And, what you quoted merely sunstantiates them.
'You will not come to me.'

That is a choice.
I have no further interest in persuing this silly calvinistic delusion.
I urge caution when referring to the Word of God as false.

 

[Brightfame52]

I simply gave scripture.
And, what you quoted merely sunstantiates them.
'You will not come to me.'

That is a choice.
I have no further interest in persuing this silly calvinistic delusion.
I urge caution when referring to the Word of God as false.

Yes it is a choice, but its the only choice they can make.