Florida Republican Says Abortion Law Fear Delayed Her Care for Ectopic Pregnancy

[Pommer]

So I see you read minds, too, to know what people are thinking. Maybe, just maybe, things are just as she said because it’s not unheard of for abortion rights activists to be overly zealous in their activisting.

No mind reading involved on my end.
Woman seeks Tx, Tx delayed, Tx eventually administered.
Woman complains that abortion rights activists are to blame for the delay.

And here we are.

 

[A New Dawn]

No mind reading involved on my end.
Woman seeks Tx, Tx delayed, Tx eventually administered.
Woman complains that abortion rights activists are to blame for the delay.

And here we are.

That still relies on reading minds.

 

[Pommer]

That still relies on reading minds.

Please for to explain your reasoning, since we both know that I cannot read your mind.

 

[A New Dawn]

Please for to explain your reasoning, since we both know that I cannot read your mind.

You said Cammack was scapegoating the abortion rights activists in the post I originally made that comment on and you have no way of knowing her motivation unless you assume she was lying. Activists rely on fearmongering to get their message across. Putting pressure on doctors to not be able to do their jobs for fear of having their licenses taken away can be a way to put pressure on the hospital staff to put pressure on the lawmakers to reverse their decision on the abortion issue.

 

[Pommer]

You said Cammack was scapegoating the abortion rights activists in the post I originally made that comment on and you have no way of knowing her motivation unless you assume she was lying. Activists rely on fearmongering to get their message across. Putting pressure on doctors to not be able to do their jobs for fear of having their licenses taken away can be a way to put pressure on the hospital staff to put pressure on the lawmakers to reverse their decision on the abortion issue.

Oh, I believe that Representative Cammack believed that abortion rights activists had had a hand in the (slight) delay in her getting the usual medical care she (eventually) got. I don’t think her dishonest.
But the way the law is written,
(b) The physician certifies in writing that, in reasonable medical judgment, there is a medical necessity for legitimate emergency medical procedures for termination of the pregnancy to save the pregnant woman’s life or avert a serious risk of imminent substantial and irreversible physical impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman other than a psychological condition, and another physician is not available for consultation…
could give physicians pause, since at 5 weeks gestation, “imminent” doesn’t seem like it would apply; hence no need for abortion rights activists to cloud the minds of Doctors.

 

[A New Dawn]

Oh, I believe that Representative Cammack believed that abortion rights activists had had a hand in the (slight) delay in her getting the usual medical care she (eventually) got. I don’t think her dishonest.
But the way the law is written,
(b) The physician certifies in writing that, in reasonable medical judgment, there is a medical necessity for legitimate emergency medical procedures for termination of the pregnancy to save the pregnant woman’s life or avert a serious risk of imminent substantial and irreversible physical impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman other than a psychological condition, and another physician is not available for consultation…
could give physicians pause, since at 5 weeks gestation, “imminent” doesn’t seem like it would apply; hence no need for abortion rights activists to cloud the minds of Doctors.

I believe that is not saying the doctors can’t use their medical judgment to save the mother’s life, they can do it at any time throughout the pregnancy when they discover the life-threatening complication, and sometimes it is more appropriate to deliver the baby by C-section, but 1. imminent can mean anything with a tubal pregnancy because the tubes are so small they don’t allow for much growth before you are in imminent danger, 2. there is an “or” there indicating that only one of those conditions need to be present, and a tubal pregnancy would fall into the first condition, and 3. none of this matters to activists who WANT to cause potential problems that would lead to an alteration in the law.

 

[RDKirk]

I believe that is not saying the doctors can’t use their medical judgment to save the mother’s life, they can do it at any time throughout the pregnancy when they discover the life-threatening complication, and sometimes it is more appropriate to deliver the baby by C-section, but 1. imminent can mean anything with a tubal pregnancy because the tubes are so small they don’t allow for much growth before you are in imminent danger, 2. there is an “or” there indicating that only one of those conditions need to be present, and a tubal pregnancy would fall into the first condition, and 3. none of this matters to activists who WANT to cause potential problems that would lead to an alteration in the law.

There is an abyss, sometimes, between "they can" and "they will."

 

[NxNW]

NxNW: In other words, doctors delayed treatment because of protesters? You keep claiming that, but nobody with half a brain believes that.

Actually I haven’t claimed that at all. Except in your own mind.

WELL ACTUALLY, you claimed or implied it in posts 8, 12, 14, 18, 25, 33, 56, 73, 94, and 104.

Explicitly in Post 73, quoted here:

The procedure was delayed several hours because of the harassment of the fearmongering activists which likely forced the doctors to asked the lawyers for clarity.

 

[A New Dawn]

WELL ACTUALLY, you claimed or implied it in posts 8, 12, 14, 18, 25, 33, 56, 73, 94, and 104.

Explicitly in Post 73, quoted here:

The procedure was delayed several hours because of the harassment of the fearmongering activists which likely forced the doctors to asked the lawyers for clarity.

My stance, repeatedly, has been that the lawyers were likely involved in the situation, like they usually are in cases where ethical/ legal implications are present.

But feel free to lie about me some more.

 

[Pommer]

I believe that is not saying the doctors can’t use their medical judgment to save the mother’s life, they can do it at any time throughout the pregnancy when they discover the life-threatening complication, and sometimes it is more appropriate to deliver the baby by C-section, but 1. imminent can mean anything with a tubal pregnancy because the tubes are so small they don’t allow for much growth before you are in imminent danger, 2. there is an “or” there indicating that only one of those conditions need to be present, and a tubal pregnancy would fall into the first condition, and 3. none of this matters to activists who WANT to cause potential problems that would lead to an alteration in the law.

Maybe legislators could consult physicians before making laws that could affect the decision-making process of physicians?
Also the penalties for “the wrong call” shouldn’t include the possibility of being charged with capital murder.

 

[A New Dawn]

Maybe legislators could consult physicians before making laws that could affect the decision-making process of physicians?
Also the penalties for “the wrong call” shouldn’t include the possibility of being charged with capital murder.

Why should they do that??? It is already legal to save a person’s life and elective abortion laws are for elective abortions. On second thought, maybe that’s a good idea so activists, whose only goal is to cause enough confusion that the elective abortion laws get changed, don’t have a leg to stand on.

 

[RDKirk]

Maybe legislators could consult physicians before making laws that could affect the decision-making process of physicians?

Not always. That's not something a black person can agree with, because we had to push politics ahead of what physicians were thinking about us.

Also the penalties for “the wrong call” shouldn’t include the possibility of being charged with capital murder.

And that is true, for the most part. Such a possibility should be at the extreme end of medical malpractice.

 

[NxNW]

My stance, repeatedly, has been that the lawyers were likely involved in the situation, like they usually are in cases where ethical/ legal implications are present.

But feel free to lie about me some more.

If it's a lie to quote your own words, I guess I'll continue to do so.