Is This The New Normal?

[Fervent]

It seems like a show because of the media and leftist politicians, and leftist citizens and illegals attacking and obstructing. They created the necessity of these actions by their actions.

I mean, this sounds like nothing but rationalization and refusal to hold the administration accountable. It's the leftists fault!

Mobile phones video taping LE actions then propegandizing the actions. Actions that are perfectly legal and appropriate. Twisting to make it seem like its not. Plain clothes suddenly become horrible. Claiming there were no warrants as if thats somehow bad or illegal when its not. People being placed in unmarked vans and accusing them of being like the 3rd Reich or KGB, when this has been st

There are distinct legal issues that are raising legitimate concerns, particular the ones about habeus corpus and due process.

andard police practice and perfectly legal for our entire history.

Actions have been taken to protect and prevent the attacks and obstructions. The left is doing all they can to manufacture outrage. And I noticed you only used "obstruction" as a problem. When the problems are even bigger. Like assault, and threats to officers families.

All I'm hearing is excuses.

Me too.

Yes the heart if the problem is past administrations failures to stem the tide of illegals and inviting them in.

To an extent, but it's been a problem for 40 years and its not like the solution is difficult to spot. But rallying the base because of those evil foreigners is more politically advantageous than actually solving the problem.

Are you for then rounding up all those farmers who are using illegals too? Every hotel manager, every contractor, every McDonalds manager, every local business?

There's no need to round them up, just apply the fines and penalties that are already in the law. Make it economically advantageous to employ citizens in those menial positions.

Until you do that you have to prove that every single one of them KNEW the person was illegal.

There's no restriction to mens rea in the financial penalties. All that's needed is evidence they employed illegals, in which case its up to them to demonstrate that they took preventative measures.

This is a two pronged probelm. And whether or not prosecutions are made against managers who actually do the hiring, its still against the law to come here illegally. And since ICE the is primarily ICEs job thats what rhey should do. We've already seen that DHS has teemed up with other LE including the IRS when raiding businesses. And it takes months and months of investigations, interviews etc to pin down businesses. And of course when people assert their rights then its even harder. Or did you forget that? You then have to prove it another way. And since we've seen that illegals will steal others identities including SSN well, its nearly impossible to prove the manager knew.

It really isn't, but even if it were the only side that ever gets enforced is the occasional show of going after the ones just looking for a better life rather than the ones exploiting the situation and profiting off of it.

Oh yeah, not saying it cant be done, its just not as easy as "hey just charge the business."

It is, because it's a matter of enforcing existing statutes that assess financial penalties per illegal alien employed. When it no longer benefits the bottom line of corporations like Tyson foods the problem will quickly vanish.

 

[A New Dawn]

Obama somehow managed to do just that at greater numbers and never had to turn any US city into Falujah to get it done.

Bush didn’t open the border and invite millions of illegals into the country or fly the in by the airplane loads so they didn’t even have to go through customs.

Also, Obama didn’t have all of the leftist mayors and governors weaponized against him.

 

[A New Dawn]

It's un-American and dangerous. No American should support activities like this taking place on our streets and in public parks.

View attachment 367225

No American mayor or governor should break the law and harbor criminal illegal aliens.

 

[A New Dawn]

An administration at war with its own people.

The illegals here aren’t “its own people”.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

The illegals here aren’t “its own people”.

Los Angeles is an American city.

 

[A New Dawn]

Los Angeles is an American city.

The illegals in LA are not American citizens. They are not “its own people”.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

The illegals in LA are not American citizens. They are not “its own people”.

The residents of the American city of Los Angeles are mostly all American citizens. Idk where you live but you likely have fewer Americans living near you than I have living around me just in LA County.

I don’t even know what you’re trying to argue here. Do you think these massive raids aren’t having any impact on citizens living here in the same area?

 

[MrMoe]

That's what the pro police state people always say. Kinda the whole point, really.

The most obvious Kafka Trap I’ve seen on this forum.

I know I've never seen military deployed to sweep a park in the middle of the day for no apparent reason. Where have you seen this happen before?

Argumentum ad ignorantiam
(argument from ignorance).

Basically, your claim relies on the absence of evidence as evidence itself, which is not a valid form of reasoning.

Unless your day involves goin to the park. Or working at a car wash. Or walking down the street of your own neighborhood.

I’m sure you have proof of ice preventing people from doing these things.

From the footage you posted I can see people walking in and around the park areas.

Or wishing to exist not in a perpetual police state just because people like you feel safer that way.

If military simply showing up in public constitutes a perpetual police state to you then America has been a police state for a long time. Well before Trump.

Would you prefer lawlessness be the norm?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

The most obvious Kafka Trap I’ve seen on this forum.



Argumentum ad ignorantiam
(argument from ignorance).

Basically, your claim relies on the absence of evidence as evidence itself, which is not a valid form of reasoning.



I’m sure you have proof of ice preventing people from doing these things.

From the footage you posted I can see people walking in and around the park areas.



If military simply showing up in public constitutes a perpetual police state to you then America has been a police state for a long time. Well before Trump.

Would you prefer lawlessness be the norm?

What’s happening here in LA is not normal. If it was lawlessness before ICE showed up then yes, I much prefer that. Things were peaceful here just a few weeks ago.

 

[MrMoe]

They most certainly weren't. It was one of the things that dogged the Obama administration throughout its tenure.

See this post for some details: Karoline Leavitt accuses CNN of 'encouraging violence' against agents for reports on new ICE tracking app

Where in those links does it show Democrats protesting about “kids in cages”? Those links are about Democrats protesting that illegal immigrants were being deported not the way they were being captured, which is the complaint right now.

 

[MrMoe]

What’s happening here in LA is not normal. If it was lawlessness before ICE showed up then yes, I much prefer that. Things were peaceful here just a few weeks ago.

Not ICE’s fault. They were just doing their job capturing illegal immigrants. Same as they always have. It’s the fault of those who decided to block traffic, burn cars, damage property and break into stores and steal stuff that destroyed the peace.

 

[Gene2memE]

The thing is you guys didn't care when Obama did it. Because it was Obama.

No. Some of us were pretty vocal about it (and I'm not even American).

However, I was mostly focused on the immigration policies of my own country at the time. This was because of the cruel and inhumane - and under current legal precedent unconstitutional and illegal - programme of indefinite immigration detention that both the left and right sides of our political system favoured at the time. Alongside that was the simplistic 'Stop the Boats' rhetoric - which basically dumped asylum seekers and refugees back into foreign ports - which was aggravated by our yo-yo'ing migration and asylum seeker/refugee intakes at the time.

 

[Larniavc]

Just normal police work in America according to some of our friends here on these boards. Everyone remembers when Obama militarized American cities to enforce his agenda.

Who can forget the Jade Helm saga where people were kidnapped off the streets by government thugs and carted off to internment camps by Obama?

I'm sure glad nothing like that is happening today under Trump.

 

[A New Dawn]

The residents of the American city of Los Angeles are mostly all American citizens. Idk where you live but you likely have fewer Americans living near you than I have living around me just in LA County.

I don’t even know what you’re trying to argue here. Do you think these massive raids aren’t having any impact on citizens living here in the same area?

They wouldn’t be having an impact if the governing authorities in the area followed the law.

The fact that the governing authorities have spent so much time and effort preventing law enforcement officers from doing their job proves that they have little concern for the citizens who voted them into office or for the laws of the land.

We all know why they want to have them there, because they get more representation in congress for the total number of people there instead of the number of citizens. You can’t be so naive as to think otherwise, because we have seen the kinds of people they are harboring, we have read the news stories of people arrested for violent crimes repeatedly allowed back out onto the streets, rap sheets with dozens of violent crimes racked up. It’s disgusting what TPTP will allow for a power grab.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

I see, you dont want them and their families protected from.threats and harassment. Got it. And dont tell me "I disnt say that". Because that's the result of your desires. Its like saying, we dont need brakes on cars and then so.wone pointing out that the result of rhat will be people will die. And you claiming well thats not what you said. Thats the RESULT of your desired action.

And by the way, the agents ARE wearing ID and carrying their badges. All a LE has to to do is identify themselves and show their badge and tell people of their intent to arrest and what for. Thats it.

That's correct. They dont have a right to obstruct, threaten or attack the officers.

If an ICE agents feels threatened then he has a right to defend himself. He doeant have to quit. Thats ridiculous. In fact we should demand as citizens that they be protected.

Transparency is critical i agree, but transparency does not require we see their faces if doing so causes them and their families to be harassed and threatened. Honestly you are starting to sound like a 3rd world thug.

Only in authoritarian regimes do masked law enforcement agencies, supported by the military, go door to door and apprehend citizens.

If this reflects current MAGA support in America, don't be surprised when others point to these incidents as evidence that the administration is undermining democratic norms.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Not ICE’s fault.

I don’t really care. That’s who I’m blaming for everything.

 

[A New Dawn]

Only in authoritarian regimes do masked law enforcement agencies, supported by the military, go door to door and apprehend citizens.

If this reflects current MAGA support in America, don't be surprised when others point to these incidents as evidence that the administration is undermining democratic norms.

I find it humorous that the left is so all of the sudden horrified that law-enforcement officers that THEY are putting in danger are wearing masks when they supported mask-wearing Antifa rioters when they caused $20M in damages across the country in 2020. Must be so inconvenient to be so flip-floppy that your tolerances change so drastically depending on who’s doing the activity and not what the activity is.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

I find it humorous that the left is so all of the sudden horrified that law-enforcement officers that THEY are putting in danger are wearing masks when they supported mask-wearing Antifa rioters when they caused $20M in damages across the country in 2020. Must be so inconvenient to be so flip-floppy that your tolerances change so drastically depending on who’s doing the activity and not what the activity is.

I am not “left” so you have to direct these question to them.

I believe that at times, the 2020 George Floyd protests became excessive. The property destruction and vandalism were regrettable, and those responsible for such acts should have been prosecuted according to the law.

It's surprising that you believe law enforcement should imitate regular citizens' behavior. You point out that "the Left" supported ANTIFA riots, so it is justified that law enforcement officers—supported by the military—wearing masks and going door to door to apprehend people.

I have maintained a consistent position on this issue; however, it appears that the actions you previously opposed in 2020 ( Floyed protest) are now considered acceptable as long as you agree with them.

 

[DaisyDay]

The mayor of LA is a lying and dishonest politician, IMO. Please read the following article where there are good people in California and outside of the state refuting her lies.

LA mayor ripped for interfering with ICE raid at crime-ridden local park: 'Full of s---'

Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass sparked a social media firestorm on Monday after she attempted to stop ICE agents from conducting a raid at a park known for criminal activity.

www.foxnews.com

What lie? Unevidenced accusation.

 

[DaisyDay]

(staff edit)

The "article" is filled with unprintable invective but it did not list any lie - although Bass apparently mistook the ICE agents in cammo for military because there was nothing on them identifying them as ICE (what a surprise).