Trump threatens to cut Calif.’s federal funds if trans athletes ‘illegally’ compete in women’s events

[Hentenza]

And some women have no issue with it at all, as it has been going on since the advent of public restrooms. Do you believe someone who can pass as a man has been using the women's restroom in the advent of public restrooms? Or a person who can pass as a woman stepped into the men's restroom? If discovered at all, it was an overlooked crime when someone beat the living daylights out of them for pretty much any reason. So they almost always did not do anything to call unnecessary attention to themselves for fear of their lives or their family's lives.

I have had two or three men appearing individuals come into a restroom while I was in there, sometimes alone, other times not. No presenting females fainted or shared an opinion on the issue. I also know I have been sharing restrooms with passing trans women for my entire life. I have been sexually assaulted as well. That does not give me the right to tell someone else they cannot come into a public restroom with because I do not want them to. As adults, we do not always get what we want.

I guess I am an odd duck, but I did not take the time to wonder if they were trans, if the men's restroom was out of service, or if they entered the wrong door and forged on. I just presumed it was a person who needed to use the facilities. I am more uncomfortable being in an elevator with a man alone, as there is no place for me to even have a chance to get away from them if they are a bad actor. But I do not infringe on their to use the elevator because I am uncomfortable. I do not tell them to get out or use another elevator. I am vigilant, and I get over it because it is my issue, not theirs and being uncomfortable does not trump their rights to use facilities, elevators etc..

I tend to form opinions based on logic and historical facts. If a pervert or a sexual predator wants to enter a woman's space to commit a felony, I have no presumption that a misdemeanor charge or using the wrong restroom will prevent their intent. Predators and perverts have been entering women's restrooms with ill intent since the advent of public restrooms.

Doesn’t mean that you give them permission by simply being permissive. Secondly is not about you and what you think. Most women don’t think like you.

 

[Bradskii]

The same way that people have been using bathrooms since the genesis of public restrooms. People that have male genitalia use the male bathroom and those that have female genitalia use the female bathroom.

Someone who was born male and has, or is now transitioning to a woman, will use the women's bathroom. Simply saying 'If you have male genitalia then you must use the male restroom' is completely ignoring the problem. How do you enforce it?

From what you are posting it seems that you think that putting up a sign saying 'This bathroom is only for people with male genitalia' will solve it. If you think that everyone is complying then you've got no problem and everyone is happy.

Sounds like a winner to me. Although some others involved in this discussion may disagree. They might suggest to you that transwomen will ignore that sign. I'll leave you to sort that out with them.

 

[Hentenza]

Someone who was born male and has, or is now transitioning to a woman, will use the women's bathroom. Simply saying 'If you have male genitalia then you must use the male restroom' is completely ignoring the problem. How do you enforce it?

I would expect for people to respect others and not use the women’s bathroom since they are not a woman. It is about respect. If they still have male genitalia then they should not use the male bathroom.

From what you are posting it seems that you think that putting up a sign saying 'This bathroom is only for people with male genitalia' will solve it. If you think that everyone is complying then you've got no problem and everyone is happy.

Sounds like a winner to me. Although some others involved in this discussion may disagree. They might suggest to you that transwomen will ignore that sign. I'll leave you to sort that out with them.

Again, it was. It was not a problem until your camp made it a problem. No one is going to police it and some trans will get away with it but most women will continue to complain and your camp simply will not care. Your camp have no respect for anyone else but yourselves. One big reason why your camp gave us Trump.

 

[Bradskii]

Again, it was. It was not a problem until your camp made it a problem. No one is going to police it and some trans will get away with it but most women will continue to complain and your camp simply will not care. Your camp have no respect for anyone else but yourselves. One big reason why your camp gave us Trump.

My camp? Anyway...Yes, you're right. No-one is going to police it. It's nonsensical for anyone to suggest it. At which point the problem disappears.

But you say that most women will continue to complain. But complain about what? Another woman using the restroom? If you can't tell, then how does anyone else? Now we're back to trying to decide how we know. And we've already decided we can't. So what's your suggestion this time?

 

[Mayzoo]

Doesn’t mean that you give them permission by simply being permissive. Secondly is not about you and what you think. Most women don’t think like you.

Then it also doesn't matter that some women are concerned due to past sexual abuse. Throw out some anecdotal, throw it all out.

So other than feelings, now that we have established feelings are not germane to the discussion, what legal basis do they have for their argument? Trans folks have been using the restroom that will not get them beat near to death since public restrooms have been a thing.

Do you have valid evidence of Trans on hetero violence? We know there has always been hetero on hetero violence for women in women's restroom but that is not evidence that Trans are perpetrators

I agree because I do or don't want this to continue as it always has been is not a valid debate point. So please provide a link that show the volume of Trans violence on heterosexual women in the restroom.

 

[SimplyMe]

Now we need laws to keep men out period because men have easier access to women to subject them to the other things. Making it easier for them to break other laws is not the answer.

What does the new law do that the old ones don't? If a law doesn't stop a man who is intent on harming/molesting women out of a women's room now, the new law won't keep them out, either.

 

[ralliann]

What does the new law do that the old ones don't? If a law doesn't stop a man who is intent on harming/molesting women out of a women's room now, the new law won't keep them out, either.

Well if this keeps up, private toilets are going to have to be installed. So be it.
People will just not stop insisting men use women's restrooms. This issue does not care about women or their safety, as is evident with womens sports. Which this thread is about.

 

[Bradskii]

People will just not stop insisting men use women's restrooms.

Nobody has said that. Please stop misrepresenting the position some people are taking. The fact is that some posters are saying that people with male genitalia must not use women's restrooms. So if a woman goes into a women's restroom, how are you going to tell if she is trans or not?

It's a simple question that no-one has answered. Because you can't tell. Even if you are concerned with heterosexual men dressing as women to enable them to gain access to women's restrooms to assault women, then how are you going to tell?

There is no problem.

 

[SimplyMe]

Well if this keeps up, private toilets are going to have to be installed. So be it.
People will just not stop insisting men use women's restrooms. This issue does not care about women or their safety, as is evident with womens sports. Which this thread is about.

No, it doesn't show this. The question people like me are asking, how does this do anything to make women safer? There are already laws in place that are there to protect women. Adding a new law won't make women any safer because the same people that ignore the current laws will also ignore the new laws. This is particularly true since the already risk serious jail time for molesting a woman, adding an extra fine on top of that isn't any type of deterrent.

 

[ralliann]

No, it doesn't show this. The question people like me are asking, how does this do anything to make women safer?

Allowing men in women's bathrooms makes it less safe. Therefore safer.

There are already laws in place that are there to protect women. Adding a new law won't make women any safer because the same people that ignore the current laws will also ignore the new laws.

Do not give incentive, to give opportunity , make it easier.

This is particularly true since the already risk serious jail time for molesting a woman, adding an extra fine on top of that isn't any type of deterrent.

Women have already been raped. Girls in school. Are you not aware of this? The sports issue does prove these people do not care about women's safety.
So private toilets are going to be necessary. No matter how much cost this puts on others.

 

[Bradskii]

Allowing men in women's bathrooms makes it less safe.

It's not the case of not allowing men into a woman's restroom. That is, effectively, not allowed already (unless it's a unisex restroom). What you mean, and what you should be saying, is that you don't want transwomen using the women's restroom. Let's be honest here.

And the point being made is that it's not a problem. And even if you insisted upon it for whatever reason, then you have absolutely no way of enforcing it. So for any of your arguments to have any credibility whatsoever you'd have to show that transwomen using a women's restroom are a danger to other women by being some sort of sexual predator and you'd have to come up with a way to enforce it.

You haven't shown either.

 

[A2SG]

Allowing men in women's bathrooms makes it less safe. Therefore safer.

How, exactly? How many instances of trans women attacking people in bathrooms have happened? Or even men pretending to be trans women attacking people? Give me a number.

Has it actually, ever happened?

Prove this is an actual, valid threat, and then, and only then, can I possibly consider that this will affect anyone's safety one iota.

Do not give incentive, to give opportunity , make it easier.

Does this extend to any other crime? Do we now prevent people from doing anything, just on the off chance they might, possibly, commit a crime?

They have a term for that kind of thing. Rhymes with Folice Fate.

Women have already been raped. Girls in school. Are you not aware of this?

Yeah, I'm aware stuff like that has happened. Now tell me, were any of the perpetrators of those crimes trans women in public bathrooms? Or men pretending to be trans women? Give me the details.

The sports issue does prove these people do not care about women's safety.

Who, exactly, are "these people"?

So private toilets are going to be necessary. No matter how much cost this puts on others.

Do you really think that kind of legislation will pass, in all 50 states?

Good luck!

-- A2SG, yer gonna need it....

 

[ralliann]

How, exactly? How many instances of trans women attacking people in bathrooms have happened? Or even men pretending to be trans women attacking people? Give me a number.

Has it actually, ever happened?

Prove this is an actual, valid threat, and then, and only then, can I possibly consider that this will affect anyone's safety one iota.


Does this extend to any other crime? Do we now prevent people from doing anything, just on the off chance they might, possibly, commit a crime?

They have a term for that kind of thing. Rhymes with Folice Fate.


Yeah, I'm aware stuff like that has happened. Now tell me, were any of the perpetrators of those crimes trans women in public bathrooms? Or men pretending to be trans women? Give me the details.


Who, exactly, are "these people"?


Do you really think that kind of legislation will pass, in all 50 states?

Good luck!

-- A2SG, yer gonna need it....

Not playing your game. You won't see what you refuse to see.

 

[A2SG]

Not playing your game. You won't see what you refuse to see.

Ah, so this is yet another claim without evidence.

I've been asking this question for a while now. What makes you think I won't see your point if you can actually prove it? C'mon, give it a try, see what happens.

-- A2SG, what have you got to lose....

 

[ralliann]

Ah, so this is yet another claim without evidence.

I've been asking this question for a while now. What makes you think I won't see your point if you can actually prove it? C'mon, give it a try, see what happens.

-- A2SG, what have you got to lose....

Ah yes, as ever.

 

[A2SG]

Ah yes, as ever.

Yup, you'll find I treat all claims that come without evidence with requisite skepticism.

-- A2SG, unlike a lot of people on the internet these days.....

 

[RileyG]

Women can complain as they have done before. However, it would be better if folks with male genitalia will respect the women’s bathroom and use the male bathroom as has been done since we’ve had public restrooms.

QFTW

 

[RileyG]

Fine. You tell them. Me, I'm content just letting anyone use whatever bathroom they prefer.

-- A2SG, but that's just me....

Not everyone is content with that, though. That’s why it’s up for debate.

 

[RileyG]

Which they mostly have done out of customary courtesy, and sexual transgressions have always been illegal there. But enforcing it as an ideological issue is going to require something more.

Not wanting men in women’s restrooms is an ideological issue? What?

 

[A2SG]

Not everyone is content with that, though. That’s why it’s up for debate.

I'm sure there are a lot of people not content that certain people have rights. Doesn't mean they get to deny them.

-- A2SG, not a big fan of prejudice, to be honest.......