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Darwinian evolution - still a theory in crisis.

2PhiloVoid

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You're not even remotely curious when someone gives up all this ...

Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

Psalm 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.


Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

... to become an atheist?

That's like saying, "I was a millionaire once, but I quit believing in money. Now I'm homeless, hungry, unhealthy, and happy."

You don't even know me, AV. And to suggest that "I'm not even remotely curious" after I've been on CF for almost 20 years tells me you weren't paying attention during the time I was defending the faith in the Philosophy and Apologetics sections when they were a live thing.
 
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AV1611VET

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You don't even know me, AV.

You said it irritates you, did you not?

And to suggest that "I'm not even remotely curious" after I've been on CF for almost 20 years tells me you weren't paying attention during the time I was defending the faith in the Philosophy and Apologetics sections when they were a live thing.

Have you ever defended the faith against someone who claimed they were once as you are now; and now claim they have come to realize they had wasted their time being as you are now?

Do they go their way wondering why you haven't "seen the light" yet; while you go your way wondering why they "rejected the Light"?

Aren't you (or were you at the time) curious as to why?
 
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BCP1928

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Yeah, I know. I've studied the history of this issue, from Little Rock to Dover, and it also just so happens that Langdon Gilkey is one of my theological influences.
Just the Wikipedia page makes him look interesting. But to me, the irony is that the public school was created by the Reformation, and meant to teach reading so all the faithful could read the vernacular scriptures (plus a commercially useful amount of arithmatic.) It went on that way for a long time, centuries, Fundamentalists (as the self-appointed only true heirs of the Protestant tradition) think they were ripped off, and they do have something of a point.
 
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1Tonne

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Thank you Jerry. I might, indeed, find it interesting, but I am generally disinclined to view videos without some proper insight into their contents. I hope you will agree that the text on YouTube thumbnails typically falls into the category of clickbait. And since I dislike manipulation of any kind I am more likely to use the the text as a reason not to view it.
However, you have taken the time to post this, so I won't reject it out of hand. If you would summarise for me the content and the argument I would happy to take a look. Also, if you are willing, I would be interested to hear your motivation for suggesting it.
A good hint for you is to speed it up. I often watch things on YouTube like this in 1.75 speed, but if you want to take it all in, you may want to try 1.25. This way, you can get through more info in less time. Works a treat. Eventually, you will be able to speed it up faster and faster as your brain will naturally get used to the speed. And eventually your brain will not hear chipmunks, it will hear their voices as they are. Blessings
 
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1Tonne

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You guys need to stop this guilt tripping tactic. It makes for a terrible, dysfunctional mode of evangelizing.

Really. Seriously.

I mean, I'm a Christian, but even I find it irritating when I hear it being used by another Christian, especially when it's used upon a former Christian.
It is showing the reality of truth. As I have pointed out in this thread, I do not like to water down the bible and I also do not like to water down the Gospel.
One day, we will all be judged. Even Jesus often spoke scary things to bring people to repentance. Out of all the people in the bible, Jesus was the one who spoke of Hell the most. Through the fear of the Lord, men depart from evil. Jude even speaks about saving some with fear.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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You said it irritates you, did you not?
Yes, I did.
Have you ever defended the faith against someone who claimed they were once as you are now; and now claim they have come to realize they had wasted their time being as you are now?
More times than I can count.
Do they go their way wondering why you haven't "seen the light" yet; while you go your way wondering why they "rejected the Light"?
No. Because they know better than to trifle with my darker half. :smoke:
Aren't you (or were you at the time) curious as to why?

I've encountered all of the permutations. I'm all out of "curious."
 
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BCP1928

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It is showing the reality of truth. As I have pointed out in this thread, I do not like to water down the bible and I also do not like to water down the Gospel.
Then don't. But keep in mind that what you call a watered-down Bible is the Bible that some Christian groups have been using for over a thousand years or longer I'd like to see you try that "watered down" line on, say, a Copt. the Copts have hardly had a new theological idea since Jesus lived in Egypt. They haven't watered anything down.
One day, we will all be judged. Even Jesus often spoke scary things to bring people to repentance. Out of all the people in the bible, Jesus was the one who spoke of Hell the most. Through the fear of the Lord, men depart from evil. Jude even speaks about saving some with fear.
 
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1Tonne

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This is another trope about us, that we have some pain connected to religion deep within us. Unfortunately religious writers have been impugning non-believers for millennia.
You are correct. Many atheists do not have any inner pain. Some do, but many don't.
The reason a lot of people proclaim to be atheists is that they are doing something that God would not like. Maybe sex outside of marrage or something like that. If they acknowledged that there was a God, they would then be accountable to Him.
Also, some are simply blind right from the word "go". Even though they see evidence of God in creation, they are blind to it. This may be because Satan has blinded the eyes of those who do not believe or the may have been indoctrinated into evolution from an early age at school
For those of us who used to believe, there are many paths out of faith,
Correct. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
From my viewpoint, the cartoon should have been turned around. Atheist hate it when we defend the bible.
How do you read this: JESUSISNOWHERE?
  1. Jesus is now here.
  2. Jesus is nowhere.
That is good. Same evidence but different world views. Just like evolution.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Just the Wikipedia page makes him look interesting. But to me, the irony is that the public school was created by the Reformation, and meant to teach reading so all the faithful could read the vernacular scriptures (plus a commercially useful amount of arithmatic.) It went on that way for a long time, centuries, Fundamentalists (as the self-appointed only true heirs of the Protestant tradition) think they were ripped off, and they do have something of a point.

Yes, I know. I noticed that attitude the day I first sat down in an SBC church and heard the sermon that day, all the while thinking, "Uh, NOPE! Nope! Nope. Exaggeration. Misrepresentation. Try again, Mr. Pastor!" ... and I had just begun to read the Bible for the first time. I knew something was off.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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It is showing the reality of truth. As I have pointed out in this thread, I do not like to water down the bible and I also do not like to water down the Gospel.
One day, we will all be judged. Even Jesus often spoke scary things to bring people to repentance. Out of all the people in the bible, Jesus was the one who spoke of Hell the most. Through the fear of the Lord, men depart from evil. Jude even speaks about saving some with fear.

1Tonne, as a philosopher, I value the concepts of truth and reality too, but you might consider that there's a score of different epistemological paths one can travel on and still get to Jesus. Not everyone has to take your presuppositional path.
 
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BCP1928

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You are correct. Many atheists do not have any inner pain. Some do, but many don't.
The reason a lot of people proclaim to be atheists is that they are doing something that God would not like. Maybe sex outside of marrage or something like that. If they acknowledged that there was a God, they would then be accountable to Him.
Also, some are simply blind right from the word "go". Even though they see evidence of God in creation, they are blind to it. This may be because Satan has blinded the eyes of those who do not believe or the may have been indoctrinated into evolution from an early age at school
Indoctrinated into evolution at school? That's terrible! He'll be an atheist for sure. Even worse, he might become a Roman Catholic...Or an Orthodox Christian. Oh, the horrors!
Correct. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

From my viewpoint, the cartoon should have been turned around. Atheist hate it when we defend the bible.

That is good. Same evidence but different world views. Just like evolution.
You aren't defending the Bible, you're defending the Bible doctrine of your particular Christian sect.
 
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NxNW

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The reason a lot of people proclaim to be atheists is that they are doing something that God would not like.
That's not how atheism works.
Maybe sex outside of marrage or something like that. If they acknowledged that there was a God, they would then be accountable to Him.
It's curious that so many humans think a supernatural being would be the slightest bit concerned about the affairs of humans. We're essentially bacteria on a speck of dust floating in space.
Also, some are simply blind right from the word "go". Even though they see evidence of God in creation, they are blind to it.
No evidence has been presented yet.
 
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AV1611VET

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It's curious that so many humans think a supernatural being would be the slightest bit concerned about the affairs of humans. We're essentially bacteria on a speck of dust floating in space.

8.2 billion people in the world today, and guess which one I'm concerned about the most?
 
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1Tonne

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1Tonne, as a philosopher, I value the concepts of truth and reality too, but you might consider that there's a score of different epistemological paths one can travel on and still get to Jesus. Not everyone has to take your presuppositional path.
Agreed. We can all come to the foot of the cross in different ways. That is why I do not dismiss showing people the reality or hard truths. To not show them would be unloving.
 
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Fervent

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It's curious that so many humans think a supernatural being would be the slightest bit concerned about the affairs of humans. We're essentially bacteria on a speck of dust floating in space.
You think bacteria on specks of dust make ethical decisions? Or have personalities that can form relational bonds? Not even those bacteria on specks of dust escape God's vision, no matter too small, nor too big. But that you must belittle yourself to such a degree speaks volumes of the lengths you'll go to make such denials. Nothin special bout humans, nothing matters right?
 
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Hans Blaster

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Indoctrinated into evolution at school? That's terrible! He'll be an atheist for sure. Even worse, he might become a Roman Catholic...Or an Orthodox Christian. Oh, the horrors!
Wait! Are you implying they aren't all Catholics here? I've heard rumors of other churches.
 
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Hans Blaster

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You are correct. Many atheists do not have any inner pain. Some do, but many don't.
The reason a lot of people proclaim to be atheists is that they are doing something that God would not like. Maybe sex outside of marrage or something like that. If they acknowledged that there was a God, they would then be accountable to Him.
As I did with the other poster take a look at that language: "proclaim to be atheists". We are. It is not a claim. We don't believe in God just the same as you do.
Also, some are simply blind right from the word "go". Even though they see evidence of God in creation, they are blind to it.
Being 'blind" to this "obvious" sign of God's handiwork in Nature was no impediment to believing.
This may be because Satan has blinded the eyes of those who do not believe or the may have been indoctrinated into evolution from an early age at school
When I was in school I had no idea creationists like you were still around.
Correct. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Sigh.
From my viewpoint, the cartoon should have been turned around. Atheist hate it when we defend the bible.
Oh, to make you defend it, but alas, the powers that be won't let me make the necessary arguments.
That is good. Same evidence but different world views. Just like evolution.
Evolution is a science, not a worldview. (And creationism is theology, not science.)
 
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