Salvation by grace through faith and our responsibility?

[BBAS 64]

Us coming to love God takes our choice and allowance. We must ask for the Holy Spirit, when offered. And allow the fruit of the Spirit, by dying to self. There are ways God can persuade us to reverence Him and honour Him. His patience and kindness lead to repentance. His goodness tastes good and brings a response. He cannot force love on us and love is His main interest in this life.

Good day, GKG

We agree it takes a choice...

Not sure where the bible states "we must ask"

God says I will put my Spirit in them and cause them to obey my commands.

No where are we commanded to ask. He puts for his own intentions (cause and effect) which can not be thawed.

So God can use things to persuade us for the explicit purpose that we reverence and honor him.

I agree but the question is can God fail in accomplishing his intended purpose?

Is his persuading action substandard, should he just try harder?

In Him

Bill

 

[lismore]

One of the best illustrations of Salvation in the bible is I think in the book of Exodus:


Exodus 12: 13 But the blood on your doorposts will serve as a sign, marking the houses where you are staying. When I see the blood, I will pass over you. This plague of death will not touch you when I strike the land of Egypt.

The only criteria for salvation was the presence or absence of the blood. Nothing else mattered. In the same way the only criteria for salvation today is the presence of absence of the blood of Jesus.

God Bless All

 

[Brightfame52]

@GoldenKingGaze

That is out of context,

No its not, in fact its within context

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

@GoldenKingGaze



No its not, in fact its within context

The context founding on and not later contradicting Romans 8:29

Our foes in debate the Muslims and especially anti-theists, would say the Bible is full of contradictions, myths and legends.

Romans 9:30-33. NKJV. Paul after your verse choice explains:
30What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law [d]of righteousness. 32Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, [e]by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. 33As it is written:

“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

Anyone is saved if they receive by faith. They were foreknown to make the choice. Back to the foundation verse, Romans 8:29

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

One of the best illustrations of Salvation in the bible is I think in the book of Exodus:


Exodus 12: 13 But the blood on your doorposts will serve as a sign, marking the houses where you are staying. When I see the blood, I will pass over you. This plague of death will not touch you when I strike the land of Egypt.

The only criteria for salvation was the presence or absence of the blood. Nothing else mattered. In the same way the only criteria for salvation today is the presence of absence of the blood of Jesus.

God Bless All

If Jesus' blood is applied to a person, they best know and accept it, but if they want they can harden their hearts, perhaps in confusion. Then their hearts are very hard.

God tells Israel not to harden their hearts as they did at Meribah in the Exodus. They and we, have a choice.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Good day, GKG

We agree it takes a choice...

Not sure where the bible states "we must ask"

God says I will put my Spirit in them and cause them to obey my commands.

No where are we commanded to ask. He puts for his own intentions (cause and effect) which can not be thawed.

So God can use things to persuade us for the explicit purpose that we reverence and honor him.

I agree but the question is can God fail in accomplishing his intended purpose?

Is his persuading action substandard, should he just try harder?

In Him

Bill

NKJV Romans 10:8-13
8But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

To receive the Spirit within one's own heart, and one can then bear fruit, Galatians 5:22

Then by patience and love, we can obey the whole of the law. Spiritual like Jacob rather than carnal like Esau.

 

[Brightfame52]

The context founding on and not later contradicting Romans 8:29

Our foes in debate the Muslims and especially anti-theists, would say the Bible is full of contradictions, myths and legends.

Romans 9:30-33. NKJV. Paul after your verse choice explains:
30What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law [d]of righteousness. 32Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, [e]by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. 33As it is written:

“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

Anyone is saved if they receive by faith. They were foreknown to make the choice. Back to the foundation verse, Romans 8:29

You are resisting truth found within the context

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

You are resisting truth found within the context

I have been quoting verses and referring to context, can you explain how you think I have been doing this?

Are you trying to say God makes the choice regarding a person's salvation? He condemns some He can save?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Good day, GKG

We agree it takes a choice...

Not sure where the bible states "we must ask"

God says I will put my Spirit in them and cause them to obey my commands.

No where are we commanded to ask. He puts for his own intentions (cause and effect) which can not be thawed.

So God can use things to persuade us for the explicit purpose that we reverence and honor him.

I agree but the question is can God fail in accomplishing his intended purpose?

Is his persuading action substandard, should he just try harder?

In Him

Bill

From Romans 8:29 the intended purpose is to persuade and save. God "foreknew" you would take the offer.

 

[Brightfame52]

I have been quoting verses and referring to context, can you explain how you think I have been doing this?

Are you trying to say God makes the choice regarding a person's salvation? He condemns some He can save?

You still have been resisting truth found in scripture, doesnt matter how many verses you quote to cover it up

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

You still have been resisting truth found in scripture, doesnt matter how many verses you quote to cover it up

If one uses Sola Scriptura or uses scripture to explain scripture, there must be no cancel outs or contradictions, Romans 9:20 is part of a bigger thought from Paul the apostle. It does not say that God won't let some people live with predetermined condemnation.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Someone who believes grace is irresistible and ministers can pray for others to be sprinkled with the sacred blood of Jesus with confidence, explaining the power and promise. But if someone manifests a demon that screams right at that moment, or someone comes in and screams, and I saw both, then some confusion arises and someone may harden their hearts when they could otherwise be softened, opened, cleaned, and justified. Knowing that a minister who thinks grace can be resisted may take action, precaution or response.

 

[A New Dawn]

From Romans 8:29 the intended purpose is to persuade and save. God "foreknew" you would take the offer.

That word is also translated as ”foreordained”. So it doesn’t necessarily imply that God chose you because He knew you would accept the offer.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

That word is also translated as ”foreordained”. So it doesn’t necessarily imply that God chose you because He knew you would accept the offer.

From the NLT verse 29:
29For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
From the YLT
29because whom He did foreknow, He also did fore-appoint, conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be first-born among many brethren;

KJV, "did foreknow"
Strong's 4267 Proginosko

Which translation writes "foreordained"?

The NJB says He decided beforehand who would be the ones... But that is the influence of Bishop Augustine, who was very opinionated and a prolific writer, but was not infallible... Not all he wrote was retained traditions from the apostles, or from the Spirit, but much about his logic and personal experience. This trend he invented started with his books in the fifth century.

 

[A New Dawn]

From the NLT verse 29:
29For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
From the YLT
29because whom He did foreknow, He also did fore-appoint, conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be first-born among many brethren;

KJV, "did foreknow"
Strong's 4267 Proginosko

Which translation writes "foreordained"?

The NJB says He decided beforehand who would be the ones... But that is the influence of Bishop Augustine, who was very opinionated and a prolific writer, but was not infallible... Not all he wrote was retained traditions from the apostles, or from the Spirit, but much about his logic and personal experience. This trend he invented started with his books in the fifth century.

Of course you are the arbiter on who was not to be listened to because they were opinionated or didn’t speak from the Spirit, or disagrees with you. How convenient.

I was just pointing out that the word is not as straightforward as you are suggesting.

 

[Lukaris]

I

Looking at God's salvation He offers through faith by grace, there is a responsibility in our parents, faith preachers and in us to respond and persist, with God's help that eventually leads to holiness with complete free will, and certain sinlessness forever despite any test and one is no longer temptable. In the afterlife.

If someone does not respond to the Gospel preached it may not have been preached well. If someone loses their salvation as in Hebrews 6:6, again, the ministry may have been substandard, and that church should close down. I am sure it is not God's predestined plan.

We need to pray, seek God for ourselves, discern kind versus narcissistic ministry, choose life, guard our hearts, seek more than a taste of grace to overcome sin.

I believe St. Paul gives us a primary example of what you are speaking about in 2 Corinthians 9:6-16 in light of the meaning of salvation by grace, through faith for good works ( Ephesians 2:8-10). I think a key ( & familiar) word involved is “thanksgiving” in verse 11. If we are thankful to God ( John 3:16-21) we will want to do whatever He wants us to do ( as we possibly can with what we have) and give something to others ( for basic immediate need and in prayer per Matthew 6:1-13).

Living life in this world is often sorrowful but we need to remember Who has overcome it ( John 16:33).

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Corinthians 9:6-15 - King James Version

But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Brightfame52]

If one uses Sola Scriptura or uses scripture to explain scripture, there must be no cancel outs or contradictions, Romans 9:20 is part of a bigger thought from Paul the apostle. It does not say that God won't let some people live with predetermined condemnation.

You still resisting scripture

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

You still resisting scripture

You don't seem to be able to explain yourself?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Of course you are the arbiter on who was not to be listened to because they were opinionated or didn’t speak from the Spirit, or disagrees with you. How convenient.

I was just pointing out that the word is not as straightforward as you are suggesting.

How reliable are Strong's Numbers?

And early church fathers prior to the fifth century?

 

[Brightfame52]

You don't seem to be able to explain yourself?

I have explained myself but you dont seem to comprehend, i cant help you with your comprehension abilty, above my pay grade