Monday Mass

[Love365]

Could a woman priest represent the Holy Spirit,

and celebrate Mass on Monday ?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Could a woman priest represent the Holy Spirit,

and celebrate Mass on Monday ?

If you mean as an ordained priest then the answer is no, if you mean in some other capacity then it depends on what the capacity is.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Sounds "controversial"

 

[PloverWing]

In my church's tradition, female priests are free to celebrate the Eucharist on any day of the week. Sunday is obviously most common, but you'll find daily Masses in some large urban parishes.

I don't think priests presume to represent the Holy Spirit, though. Priests are human beings.

 

[Love365]

In my church's tradition, female priests are free to celebrate the Eucharist on any day of the week. Sunday is obviously most common, but you'll find daily Masses in some large urban parishes.

I don't think priests presume to represent the Holy Spirit, though. Priests are human beings.

They say male priests represent Jesus during Sunday Mass.

A woman priest could represent the Virgin Mary during Saturday Mass.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

They say male priests represent Jesus during Sunday Mass.

A woman priest could represent the Virgin Mary during Saturday Mass.

Yes, a female can represent Mary but Mary is not the one who died on the cross and it is not her flesh and her blood that is given for our salvation nor is it her flesh and blood that is sacramentally present in the Eucharist. Blessed Mary is and always will be the mother of our Lord, Jesus Christ, and also a human being created in God's image.

 

[Love365]

A woman priest could wear blue robes.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

A woman priest could wear blue robes.

But a woman cannot be ordained in the Catholic Church.

 

[Love365]

But a woman cannot be ordained in the Catholic Church.

I hope they will allow women priests.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I hope they will allow women priests.

It is not very likely, however it is not yet impossible. Pope John Paul II said this about women in the priesthood.

In his 1994 apostolic letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, Pope John Paul II addressed the question of women and the priesthood with clarity and finality. He wrote:

“The Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful.”

He emphasised that this teaching is not based on cultural norms or discrimination, but on the example of Christ and the consistent tradition of the Church.​

[Source: John Paul II Definitively Said ‘No!’ to Women Priests]

 

[Love365]

Pope John Paul II allowed girls to be altar servers.

Every Pope takes one step forward.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Pope John Paul II allowed girls to be altar servers.

Every Pope takes one step forward.

Perhaps.
I think you may need to wait for quite a few steps, before women are ordained to the priesthood.

 

[Love365]

Could a woman priest from the Church of England,
be an altar server at a Catholic Church?

Can a male Catholic priest work with her ?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Could a woman priest from the Church of England,
be an altar server at a Catholic Church?

Can a male Catholic priest work with her ?

Perhaps in an ecumenical service that might happen.

 

[The Liturgist]

I hope they will allow women priests.

That would cause a schism. I am opposed to all schisms. There are already Old Catholic (Roman Catholic chucrhes that broke communion with Rome over the doctrine of Papal Infallibility defined at Vatican I; those of the Union of Utretcht are quite liberal and ordain women, while two of them, the Polish National Catholic Church and the Norwegian Catholic Church, are more traditional, and do not ordain women; there are also smaller Old Catholic jurisdictions some of which are also quite liberal) and Anglo Catholic (high church Anglican) denominations that ordain women (for example, the Scottish Episcopal Church and much of the Episcopal Church USA and much of the Church of England) and that broadly agree with your theological views in a general way.

 

[Love365]

That would cause a schism. I am opposed to all schisms. There are already Old Catholic (Roman Catholic chucrhes that broke communion with Rome over the doctrine of Papal Infallibility defined at Vatican I; those of the Union of Utretcht are quite liberal and ordain women, while two of them, the Polish National Catholic Church and the Norwegian Catholic Church, are more traditional, and do not ordain women; there are also smaller Old Catholic jurisdictions some of which are also quite liberal) and Anglo Catholic (high church Anglican) denominations that ordain women (for example, the Scottish Episcopal Church and much of the Episcopal Church USA and much of the Church of England) and that broadly agree with your theological views in a general way.

Where would it cause a schism?

Most Catholic countries support making women priests.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Most Catholic countries support making women priests.

Possibly, but it is hard to go against Church dogma and the matters hindering female ordination are likely dogmatic.

 

[The Liturgist]

Possibly, but it is hard to go against Church dogma and the matters hindering female ordination are likely dogmatic.

They are. Any attempt to change Roman Catholic doctrine on this and homosexuality will cause a schism potentially as large as the Protestant schism of the 16th century, particularly if we look at the main comparative incident, the 1979 schism in the Episcopal Church USA, which is much less doctrinally definite than the RCC due to centuries of Broad Church Latitudinarianism, going back to the Elizabethan Settlement, still involved the permanent departure of a substantial number of Episcopalians and the formation of the Continuing Anglican movement which accounts for a substantial percentage of regular Anglican Sunday worshippers in North America - the Continuing Anglicans punch above their weight because unlike most of the liberal and moderate Episcopalian parishes, Continuing Anglicans are often in a position to fill their church every Sunday (much like the Traditional Latin Mass and sui juris Eastern Catholic communities in the RCC).

By the way, a secondary reason why I’m such a strong proponent of the Traditional Latin Mass is the people trying to suppress it were among the more liberal Catholics, who had always objected to blessed Pope Benedict XVI and St. John Paul II and their shared legacy as being too conservative - these are bishops, many of them opponents of Pope Benedict among German bishops and still others left-leaning Latin Americans with a soft spot for Liberation Theology, which Pope John Paul II was adamantly opposed to, who saw the conservative movement of the church under St. John Paul II and Blessed Pope Benedict as being a regression. You will not find proponents of gay marriage or the ordination of women among Traditional Latin Mass Catholics, as a quick perusal of TLM-oriented news websites like Rorate Caeli will confirm. But my primary opposition to the Novus Ordo Missae and in particular the way TLM-opposed bishops are lately compelling the Novus Ordo Missae to be celebrated in their dioceses, which greatly exceeds what the rubrics actually require, and also what Pope Francis did personally in terms of the liturgy (he once celebrated the Novus Ordo in Latin, ad orientem) pertains to liturgical beauty, and as promised I will be posting a thread about that in Traditional Theology.

I absolutely love attending the Traditional Latin Mass near me; its like the Orthodox liturgy in terms of the sensory experience, with the beautiful vestments, the exquisite Gregorian chant (which reminds me of the various forms of Church Slavonic church music, West Syriac chant, Gregorian triphony, Coptic Tasbeha, Byzantine chant and Ambrosian chant; I actually prefer Ambrosian and Mozarabic chant to Byzantine chant, and regard Byzantine Chant and Gregorian chant as being approximate equals when done well (an excessively forceful choir of Athonite monks or Dominican friars makes either difficult for me to listen to). But just like the lovely polyphonic music of composers like Dmitri Bortniansky, Pavel Chesnokov, Artem Vedel, Archangelsky, Nikolaev, and so on complements the Znamenny Chant, Kievan Chant, “Greek chant” (no relation to Byzantine chant) and Imperial Court Chant of the lovely Russian and Ukrainian Orthodox shared musical heritage (which has also to a large extent lapped over into the Bulgarian church, which makes more use of Byzantine chant, but when not using Byzantine chant, opts for the polyphonic North Slavonic traditions from Russia and Ukraine, Gregorian chant is complemented by the polyphonic music of composers like Palestrinia, Vitoria, Cristobal de Morales, and other composers of the Renaissance and Baroque, centered in Italy, but with some in Spanish Habsburg territories and elsewhere, who not coincidentally taught composers like Bortniansky the principles of four part harmony and tonality.

I would also note that the Novus Ordo Missae is still beautiful, when celebrated well, for example, at St. John Cantius in Chicago, but it does not precisely implement what Vatican II called for (the only liturgical change Vatican II made that I find objectionable is the suppression of Prime; I would find it more objectionable were Prime routinely celebrated publically, but the private use of the Divine Office, which Vatican II renamed the Liturgy of the Hours in an attempt to encourage clergy to celebrate it publically, which unfortunately, has not happened; it is still very difficult to find an Roman Rite church outside of monasteries and semi-monastic centers of religious orders other than cathedrals certain important shrines and basilicas that offers Vespers, let alone the entire Divine Office (Lauds, the Office of Readings, and so on); whether using the Novus Ordo or not, the conventual celebration of the entire Liturgy of the Hours sadly remains rare outside of monastic environments, a fact lamented by Fr. Robert Taft, SJ.

I would also note that for the record, I think the only liturgy which was really seriously adversely affected by post-Vatican II reforms, without the existence of viable means of accessing the older, traditional form of it was the Maronite Liturgy, which used to be nearly identical to the Syriac Orthodox liturgy, for the Maronites at one time were part of the Syriac Orthodox Church before separating over reasons which are obscure and uncertain, but regarded as probably related to Monothelitism on the part of the Maronites; which the Roman church eliminated after the Maronites entered into stable communion with Rome. Some Eastern Catholic liturgies were improved after Vatican II; in North America in particular, many Ukrainian Greek Catholic parishes and Italo Albanian Greek Catholic parishes celebrate their liturgy according to rubrics identical to those of the Orthodox, with no trace of Latinizations (whereas conversely, the American Carpatho Rusyn Orthodox Diocese and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of North America, both under the omophorion of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, have liturgical features which are, in Ukraine at least, characteristic of UGCC parishes but not Orthodox parishes, even those which have become a part of the controversial semi-autocephalous OCU under the EP.

 

[The Liturgist]

Most Catholic countries support making women priests.

By Catholic countries, the governments and political parties maybe, but certainly not the laity.

I don’t understand why you don’t avail yourself of the Catholic churches that already have women priests, such as the Roman Rite Catholic parishes of the Union of Utrecht (commonly called the “Old Catholics” because of their rejection of Vatican I in the 19th century), or the Liberal Catholic parishes of the Anglican Communion. As an added benefit, they lack ties to the Pope and to the Vatican system, which I would assume you find to be patriarchal and opposed to your feminist agenda, so everyone wins under such a scenario.

 

[Love365]

opposed to your feminist agenda, so everyone wins under such a scenario.

Some of my views are conservative.

Pregnancy is normal and good.
Programs should help with free childcare.

Transgenderism is a bad idea for many reasons.