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Trump lying to justify his reasons to bomb Iran.

rjs330

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Lindsey Graham calls for US boots on Iranian ground.

"My biggest fear beyond an Iranian nuclear weapons capability is the chemical weapons in Syria falling in the hands of extremists and Americans need to lead on this issue. We need to come up with a plan to secure these weapons sites, either in conjunction with our partners [or] if nothing else by ourselves," Graham said.

Asked if he would support sending U.S. troops inside Syria for the mission, Graham said yes.

"Absolutely, you've got to get on the ground. There is no substitute for securing these weapons," he said. "I don't care what it takes. We need partners in the region. But I'm here to say, if the choice is to send in troops to secure the weapons sites versus allowing chemical weapons to get in the hands of some of the most violent people in the world, I vote to cut this off before it becomes a problem.
"Déjà vu all over again"

Yes, I understand this is Lindsey and the same frothing at the mouth willingness to send the kids of other American parents to be killed. But the thing is Trump has no core. He can't game out scenarios. It's the same Trump who would go down to Mar A Largo and ask members what he should do when faced with decisions. He's known for coming to the decision based on the last person in his ear.
Yeah, Graham just want to attack everybody. He's useless.

None of us want or support a war against Iran. We aren't going to be sending troops in. I see this as just another fear mongering by progressives.
Israel isnt sending in troops either. There is absolutely no need to do so. This is about taking out their nuclear facilities and thats it. This isnt about taking Iran over or having a ground war. Thats just foolish talk.

All that needs to be done is to take out their nuclear capabilities and rhe apparatus including personnel who are running these programs and the military leaders who would use it.
 
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FireDragon76

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The country is the offspring of an imperialist regime. You can’t expect the apple to produce an orange. While the looks may differ at first glance you’ll discover the truth when you slice it. The pair are pretty identical. There’s little difference between America and the UK and both are crumbling before our eyes. And their condition is rightfully deserved.



Christians are lulled by falsities and reflected glory of former days that have come and gone. They’ve exchanged appreciation for nationalistic worship and political foolishness. I’m beginning to wonder if a spirit of blindness has befallen them. The delusion is too great to be coincidental and no amount of reasoning can rouse them.

The glory days were not so glorious to begin with, from a perspective shaped by the ethics of Jesus.

The despoiling of indigenous lands in north American settler colonialism went hand in hand with certain spiritual pitfalls and blindness, a kind of curse we have inherited in modern America. Native cultures in North America had a respect for relational and embodied wisdom, even if they often lacked a wider intellectual or spiritual context. That's why studying Native America spirituality and ways of reading the Bible has been helpful to me in my own spiritual journey. There's a certain consonance with eastern Christian theology, too.
 
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Say it aint so

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Yeah, Graham just want to attack everybody. He's useless.

None of us want or support a war against Iran. We aren't going to be sending troops in. I see this as just another fear mongering by progressives.
Israel isnt sending in troops either. There is absolutely no need to do so. This is about taking out their nuclear facilities and thats it. This isnt about taking Iran over or having a ground war. Thats just foolish talk.

All that needs to be done is to take out their nuclear capabilities and rhe apparatus including personnel who are running these programs and the military leaders who would use it.
Just any semblance of awareness will let one know, it's just not progressives concerned. Again, it's reason there is this:

Bipartisan lawmakers to introduce resolution to prohibit US involvement in Iran

There is a long and growing list of MAGA supporters who have the same sentiment.
So sorry, you can't shoo this away as fear mongering progressives.
 
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rjs330

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Just any semblance of awareness will let one know, it's just not progressives concerned. Again, it's reason there is this:

Bipartisan lawmakers to introduce resolution to prohibit US involvement in Iran

There is a long and growing list of MAGA supporters who have the same sentiment.
So sorry, you can't shoo this away as fear mongering progressives.
He's there are Republicans now who are strongly against any involvement around the world in the eorlds conflicts. They are typically isolationist in many ways including support of any kind. They believe our money should stay home instead of helping other countries with anything. It just goes to show you that Republicans have a big tent. Not all are lock step on everything. They are not like the Democratic Party who might have one guy who doesnt fall into line.
 
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Say it aint so

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He's there are Republicans now who are strongly against any involvement around the world in the eorlds conflicts. They are typically isolationist in many ways including support of any kind. They believe our money should stay home instead of helping other countries with anything. It just goes to show you that Republicans have a big tent. Not all are lock step on everything. They are not like the Democratic Party who might have one guy who doesnt fall into line.
There are isolationists. There are people who just are tired of America at war. The later is what Trump ran on. Again, the idea that his is just mongering progressives is lazy.
 
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FireDragon76

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There are isolationists. There are people who just are tired of America at war. The later is what Trump ran on. Again, the idea that his is just mongering progressives is lazy.

I think the issue is particularly acute because American policy fails to deal realistically and justly with the Middle East, especially failing to understand the real dynamics and cultural complexity in the region. In such cases, we are better off not getting involved.
 
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durangodawood

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.....It just goes to show you that Republicans have a big tent. Not all are lock step on everything. They are not like the Democratic Party who might have one guy who doesnt fall into line.
Yes they have a big tent, so long as you bend the knee to the person of Trump before you enter,
 
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Say it aint so

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I think the issue is particularly acute because American policy fails to deal realistically and justly with the Middle East, especially failing to understand the real dynamics and cultural complexity in the region. In such cases, we are better off not getting involved.
Yes, Bibi Netanyahu is even talking about regime change, just like the mistake America made given their 20 year middle east debacle. I would like the think he is not that foolish, but if he is, Trump will go right along with him.
 
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rjs330

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There are isolationists. There are people who just are tired of America at war. The later is what Trump ran on. Again, the idea that his is just mongering progressives is lazy.

No its not if you listen to rhe mainstream media and the Demorats. It is primarily progressives who have now joined forces with a few Republicans on this issue. Which is okay.

And hes not going to fet us into the war. If he does drop.a.bomb or two. Its not the same thing as 'sending in rhe troops for a land invasion like Iraq.
 
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Say it aint so

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No its not if you listen to rhe mainstream media and the Demorats. It is primarily progressives who have now joined forces with a few Republicans on this issue. Which is okay.

And hes not going to fet us into the war. If he does drop.a.bomb or two. Its not the same thing as 'sending in rhe troops for a land invasion like Iraq.
MAGA divide over Iran splinters Trump allies - The Hill
MAGA Is at War With Itself Over Iran - The Atlantic
Tucker Carlson and Steve Bannon Lead MAGA Resistance to Iran War

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make em drink.
 
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rjs330

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Like I said, a few. The media would love to paint this as a HUGE divide and trouble for MAGA. But Trump is the leader of MAGA, not Tucker Carleson or anyone else. Those that voted for him are not monolithic. We all have our own minds and his voters, contrary to progressive beliefs, are not sycophants. I dont agree with him on everything hes done or the way he did it.

But Trunp is MAGA and the president. He sets policy and makes the decisions. He's not going to lose his support unless something terrible happens. I think he will lose support if we end up in a ground war because part of his campaign was about not doing that sort of thing.

But like I said, that's not going to happen.
 
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trophy33

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And hes not going to fet us into the war. If he does drop.a.bomb or two. Its not the same thing as 'sending in rhe troops for a land invasion like Iraq.
What is the purpose of the public threatening to assassinate the leader of Iran or shouting on the Trump's social profile "unconditional surrender!" then?

Obviously a provocation of Iran. A country can hardly not go to war when you kill its leaders and bomb its facilities, even if the country did not want to. And then the USA will need to get involved more than with one bomb.
 
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rjs330

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What is the purpose of the public threatening to assassinate the leader of Iran or shouting on the Trump's social profile "unconditional surrender!" then?

Obviously a provocation of Iran. A country can hardly not go to war when you kill its leaders and bomb its facilities, even if the country did not want to. And then the USA will need to get involved more than with one bomb.
The purpose is to create the conditions desired. He says and has said for 20 years that Iran cant have nukes. They are too unstable and fanatical to have one. He wants the program stopped and full inspections of any nuclear production. Iran refused to negotiate and he wants a leadership there that will. Hoping for less radical insane and less bloodthirsty people to step into leadership and be willing to negotiate.

Iran has always been the prevocateur. With its rhetoric and proxies to commit war upon Israel. Iran couldn't actually launch a full scale attack on Israel because they would have to use other countries space and those countries dont like Iran either. So they are stuck with terrorists. But its naive to think that if they had a nuke they wouldn't use it. That would be the one thing that would ignite the conflagration they desire.

Iran has no capability to invade Israel due to its location or invade the US. So there NO need for us or Israel to invade Iran like we did Iraq or Afghanistan.

Bombs to take out their facilities is all thats necessary and whatever infrastructure they have regarding that. If they want a nuclear program for power fine. A bomb, no. And the only way to prevent that is unconditional surrender so that all future development receives full and unrestricted access to ensure that no bomb can be created.

There will be no land war.
 
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durangodawood

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The purpose is to create the conditions desired. He says and has said for 20 years that Iran cant have nukes. They are too unstable and fanatical to have one. He wants the program stopped and full inspections of any nuclear production. Iran refused to negotiate and he wants a leadership there that will. Hoping for less radical insane and less bloodthirsty people to step into leadership and be willing to negotiate.

Iran has always been the prevocateur. With its rhetoric and proxies to commit war upon Israel. Iran couldn't actually launch a full scale attack on Israel because they would have to use other countries space and those countries dont like Iran either. So they are stuck with terrorists. But its naive to think that if they had a nuke they wouldn't use it. That would be the one thing that would ignite the conflagration they desire.

Iran has no capability to invade Israel due to its location or invade the US. So there NO need for us or Israel to invade Iran like we did Iraq or Afghanistan.

Bombs to take out their facilities is all thats necessary and whatever infrastructure they have regarding that. If they want a nuclear program for power fine. A bomb, no. And the only way to prevent that is unconditional surrender so that all future development receives full and unrestricted access to ensure that no bomb can be created.

There will be no land war.
You do realize that "unconditional surrender" means the victor can exile the current govt and completely take over administration of the country, right? Does that outcome seem like reasonable expectation to you?
 
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trophy33

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The purpose is to create the conditions desired. He says and has said for 20 years that Iran cant have nukes. They are too unstable and fanatical to have one.
What about Pakistan, India, North Korea or Russia? They can have nuclear bombs.

Iran seems to be quite stable, actually. Fanatical? Maybe, but this is quite subjective, I find a lot of fanaticism in the USA, too, for example. Even desire for the world dominance and causing a lot more wars than Iran - and the USA can have nuclear bombs.
 
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Desk trauma

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And the only way to prevent that is unconditional surrender so that all future development receives full and unrestricted access to ensure that no bomb can be created.

There will be no land war.
Unconditional surrender and full unrestricted access but zero boots on the ground?
 
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rjs330

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You do realize that "unconditional surrender" means the victor can exile the current govt and completely take over administration of the country, right? Does that outcome seem like reasonable expectation to you?
Yes I know what it CAN mean. But neither we nor Israel has any desire to take over administration of Iran. The Persians that are there are capable of doing that.

Thats what Trump wants, it may not be what he gets. He may have to settle for no nukes and full complete and unfettered inspections.
 
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rjs330

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What about Pakistan, North Korea or Russia? They can have nuclear bombs.

Iran seems to be quite stable, actually. Fanatical? Maybe, but this is quite subjective, I find a lot of fanaticism in the USA, too, for example. Even desire for the world dominance and causing a lot more wars than Iran - and the USA can have nuclear bombs.
Those ships have sailed long ago. We are talking about today.
 
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durangodawood

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Yes I know what it CAN mean. But neither we nor Israel has any desire to take over administration of Iran. The Persians that are there are capable of doing that.

Thats what Trump wants, it may not be what he gets. He may have to settle for no nukes and full complete and unfettered inspections.
Then why hold that goal hostage to an "unconditional surrender" which is something no country would ever agree to unless they were facing utter doom?

My sense is Trump thought the phrase sounds cool and thats about it.
 
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