The Holy Peoples and the Treaty

[keras]

God’s Holy People in the Last Days:
Isaiah 62:1-12... ..They will be called the holy people; the Redeemed of the Lord.

Daniel 8:23-26 In the last days, when sin is most prevalent, a powerful leader will arise. He will succeed in whatever he does, and will take control of the mighty nations and of God’s holy people. By cunning and deceit, his plans will come about and cause great harm to many when they least expect it. He will challenge even the Prince of Princes, but then will be broken, but not by human hand.
This prophecy tells of events to happen in the distant future.

Daniel 7:23-25 The explanation given is: There will be a 4th kingdom, one that will encompass the whole earth. Initially ten rulers will govern it, but another leader will take over all this kingdom. He will defy the Most High God and will conquer the holy ones of God.

Revelation 13:7 The ‘beast’ is allowed to wage war on God’s people and to defeat them…. Vividly described in Zechariah 14:1-2

Daniel 11:32 By plausible promises he will win over those who will violate the Covenant, but some will resolutely keep their faith.

The Covenant here, is the one between God and His people, for their protection.

The treaty, the 7 year peace agreement of Daniel 9:27, is between the Leader of the One World Govt, and the leaders of the Christian nation of Beulah. It will be broken by the leader of the OWG after the first 3 1/2 years. Daniel 11:31

These Bible prophesies are proof that God’s holy people, His chosen elect people; all those true born again Christian believers; the One people of God, Ephesians 4:4-6, are not removed from the earth, as some would like to think, but are present in the holy Land during the last few years of this age.
As we see in Daniel 11:32, Zechariah 14:2b, they divide into two groups, one remaining in the holy Land and the other goes away. Revelation 12:6-17 again shows these two groups; the faithful ones who refused the peace treaty with the leader of the World Govt, taken to a place of safety and those who did agree with the treaty of Death; Isaiah 28:14-15, they must remain. Revelation 12:17

The fact of all the righteous Christians living in all of the Holy Land, before the Return of Jesus, is well prophesied in all of the Bible. Many do not see it because of false teachings and not comprehending the truth of how Christians are now to be the recipient’s of the promises of God, given initially to ethnic Israel, but now available to all true believers. 2 Corinthians 1:20

We Christians look forward to being at last the people God has always wanted in His holy Land.
That is our promise and our great privilege; to be alive to participate at this critical time of mankind’s history.
What I pray all will do; is see the real truth of what actually will happen.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Why do people not see the Bible as absolutely clear on the truth of the Lord's holy peoples being in the holy Land before the Return?
Consider Daniel 7:23-25, paralleled by Revelation 13:7, where God's people are defeated by the armies of the Anti-Christ. Where does this happen? We are told in Revelation 11:1-8...in the Holy City, where the Lord was crucified. Zechariah 14:1-2 and Daniel 11:29-35, also describe this 3 1/2 year period of traumatic testing for the people of the Lord, WHO ARE IN THE HOLY LAND AT THAT TIME. Isaiah 49:8-11, Jeremiah 31:8-9, +
Revelation 12:1-17 is very informative and gives more details of this 3 1/2, 42 month or 1260 day period: that chapter tell us that Satan will be thrown out of the spiritual realm and will come to earth, his angels with him. He pursues the 'woman', that we know must refer to all righteous Christian Israel. Israelites as per Galatians 3:26-29. They are at that time; living in peace and prosperity in the holy Land, as many prophesies describe. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26, + The new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5

The 'many' who had agreed to a peace treaty with the Anti-Christ, the leader of the One World Government, Daniel 9:27, are those who remain in the Land, Revelation 12:17. But those who refuse to agree with that treaty, referred to as the Treaty of Death; in Isaiah 28:14-15, will leave the holy Land and be taken to a place of safety, where they will be looked after for 1260 days, in a place prepared by God. Revelation 12:6 & 14 This division of the holy peoples, is also Prophesied in Zechariah 14:1-2 and Daniel 11:32

These are Biblical truths, proving the many prophesies about the great Second Exodus of all the Lords people, from every tribe, nation, race and language, Revelation 5:9-10, that will happen before the Return of Jesus. Then, He will destroy those conquerors of the holy Land, along with the rest of those gathered by Satan, Revelation 16:14, and bring all His people back to Jerusalem, Matthew 24:31, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

That this teaching is not known to most Christians, is how God wanted it to be. Matthew 11:25, Isaiah 42:18-20
But now as we are so close to the time of fulfillment, God is 'opening the eyes and unstopping the ears' of a few who are willing to put aside false teachings and really understand His Plans for our future. Jeremiah 30:24

Keras, no believers enter the Trib. Rev 3:10 makes that crystal clear. Furthermore, where are the believers in the 2nd and 6th seals? Where are the believers in Rev 9:4? Where are the believers in Rev 11:10? All those verses comment on those who represent the entire population on Earth during the Trib. Not one mentions believers.

There are new converts in the Trib. In fact, there’s a great multitude (GM) of believers found in the Trib as new converts. The GM are all unbelievers at the start of the Trib. Rev 7:16 proves that all of them are subjected to the wrath of God in Rev 6:8 (famine) and Rev 16:8-9 (scorching heat). All of those new converts give testimony of Jesus Christ and are martyred. They are the souls under the altar in Rev 6:9 and Rev 20:4. All are resurrected together in the last sentence of Rev 20:4. They next appear in Heaven in Rev 7:9-17.

Where are the believers who enter the Trib? Are you going to cite Rev 12:6? Those are the elect — the Jews that must endure the Trib (Matt 24:13 & 22.

 

[keras]

Keras, no believers enter the Trib. Rev 3:10 makes that crystal clear

As Revelation 3:10 says no such thing as a rapture removal, thinking it does is just hallucinating.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

As Revelation 3:10 says no such thing as a rapture removal, thinking it does is just hallucinating.

Keras, there is no verse about the pre-Trib rapture that “says it all.” I cited verses that all work together to prove the rapture: 1 Th 4:16, 1 Cor 15:52, 1 Th 4:17 and Rev 4:1.

Rev 3:10 says a whole lot more than you’re willing to admit. Jesus said in Rev 3:10 (ESV): … I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

The Trib is 21 judgments of God’s wrath that are detailed in Rev 6 through Rev 16. There’s no escape from anywhere on the planet with the one exception being Rev 12:6 for the benefit of Jews.

Jesus said in Rev 3:10 (ESV) that the hour of trial is coming on the whole world, …

Jesus also said in Rev 3:10 (ESV) I will keep you from the hour of trial …

The fulfillment of 1 Th 4:16, 1 Cor 15:52, 1 Th 4:17 are what fulfills Rev 4:1, the pre-Trib rapture of the Church straight to Heaven.

 

[keras]

Rev 3:10 says a whole lot more than you’re willing to admit

I can't continue a discussion with someone who sees things that are not there,

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

I can't continue a discussion with someone who sees things that are not there,

You are ignoring Jesus’ words in Rev 3:10. The “hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.”

Those who dwell on the earth during the Trib are unbelievers. Please read this verse and prove differently:

Rev 11:10 (ESV): and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth.

 

[Douggg]

The resurrection/rapture to heaven before the great tribulation begins is in....

Luke 21:
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

1Thessalonians5:
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

keras, you are being edified about the resurrection/rapture to heaven for your own good.....

 

[Douggg]

You are ignoring Jesus’ words in Rev 3:10. The “hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.”

Those who dwell on the earth during the Trib are unbelievers. Please read this verse and prove differently:

Rev 11:10 (ESV): and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth.

Jeffrey, there will be persons who turn to Jesus and the gospel of salvation after the resurrection/rapture takes place.

Those persons will be the great tribulation saints who will be persecuted by the beast-king, the false prophet, and Satan. In Revelation 7:9-17, they comprise the great multitude of souls that John sees before the throne of God in heaven that have come out of great tribulation (verse 14).

In Revelation 6:9-11, they also comprise the souls who ask for the Lord to avenge their deaths.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

[keras]

You are ignoring Jesus’ words in Rev 3:10. The “hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.”

Those who dwell on the earth during the Trib are unbelievers. Please read this verse and prove differently:

Rev 11:10 (ESV): and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth.

Revelation 12:14 & 17 prove you wrong.
The Christian peoples are on earth during the Great Trib period; the 3 1/2 years of world Satanic control.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Jeffrey, there will be persons who turn to Jesus and the gospel of salvation after the resurrection/rapture takes place.

Those persons will be the great tribulation saints who will be persecuted by the beast-king, the false prophet, and Satan. In Revelation 7:9-17, they comprise the great multitude of souls that John sees before the throne of God in heaven that have come out of great tribulation (verse 14).

In Revelation 6:9-11, they also comprise the souls who ask for the Lord to avenge their deaths.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Right. I’ve been saying that.

The 144k start their ministry no later than the 4th seal. They end their ministry no earlier than the 4th bowl. Rev 7:16 is my guide on this. Famine begins in the 4th seal (Rev 6:8) and scorching heat occurs in the 4th bowl (Rev 16:8-9). That is why the GM is said to come out of the great tribulation (Rev 7:14).

The resurrection of the GM occurs in the last sentence of Rev 20:4. Then, they appear in Heaven before the throne of God (Rev 7:9-10). Then, Rev 7:11-17 occur.

 

[keras]

keras, you are being edified about the resurrection/rapture to heaven for your own good.....

I KNOW what you say about a 'resurrection/rapture', is false teaching. It simply isn't Biblical.

As for Luke 21:35, the idea of a removal, an 'escape' by rapture, is refuted by verse 34 - the whole world will be affected by the Lords Day of wrath.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

But we will have to face trials and testing. 1 Peter 4:12.

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Spiritually; yes. Physically; no, until He Returns.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

High time for your edification!
I am sure the Lord will greatly reward those who overcome their false beliefs.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

V CT r bc cq

I KNOW what you say about a 'resurrection/rapture', is false teaching. It simply isn't Biblical.

As for Luke 21:35, the idea of a removal, an 'escape' by rapture, is refuted by verse 34 - the whole world will be affected by the Lords Day of wrath.

But we will have to face trials and testing. 1 Peter 4:12.

Spiritually; yes. Physically; no, until He Returns.

High time for your edification!
I am sure the Lord will greatly reward those who overcome their false beliefs.

Keras, when will you acknowledge the biblical truth of Rev 3:10, in that the only folks who enter the Trib are “those who dwell on the earth” (unbelievers) since the Church (believers) is kept from the Trib?

That aligns perfectly with 1 Th 1:10 (ESV): and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

The wrath to come is in the 2nd seal, Rev 6:3-4 (NLT): When the Lamb broke the second seal, I heard the second living being say, “Come!” 4 Then another horse appeared, a red one. Its rider was given a mighty sword and the authority to take peace from the earth. And there was war and slaughter everywhere.

War is one of “the dreadful punishments” in God’s wrath. Ezekiel 14:21 (NLT): “Now this is what the Sovereign Lord says: How terrible it will be when all four of these dreadful punishments fall upon Jerusalem—war, famine, wild animals, and disease—destroying all her people and animals.

In 1 Th 1:10, Jesus will deliver us from the wrath to come. That is what occurs in 1 Th 4:17 (ESV): Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

We are pre-Trib raptured to the air of Heaven, when and where the Bema Seat takes place: 2 Tim 4:8 (ESV): Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.

We are “kept from the Trib” in Rev 3:1@. That matches the meaning in 1 Th 1:10 as Jesus “delivers us from the wrath to come.”

Can you now see the falsity of your Preterist beliefs? You keep adding to the Bible, in false ways. Rev 22:19 (ESV): and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

 

[keras]

Can you now see the falsity of your Preterist beliefs? You keep adding to the Bible, in false ways. Rev 22:19 (ESV): and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

This is applicable to all who promote falsehoods like the rapture to heaven and avoidance of trials a testings.
You should be worried, as what you teach is never Prophesied in the Bible.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

V CT r bc cq

I KNOW what you say about a 'resurrection/rapture', is false teaching. It simply isn't Biblical.

As for Luke 21:35, the idea of a removal, an 'escape' by rapture, is refuted by verse 34 - the whole world will be affected by the Lords Day of wrath.

But we will have to face trials and testing. 1 Peter 4:12.

Spiritually; yes. Physically; no, until He Returns.

High time for your edification!
I am sure the Lord will greatly reward those who overcome their false beliefs.

Keras, when will you acknowledge the biblical truth of Rev 3:10, in that the only folks who enter the Trib are “those who dwell on the earth” (unbelievers) since the Church (believers) is kept from the Trib?

That aligns perfectly with 1 Th 1:10 (ESV): and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

The wrath to come is in the 2nd seal, Rev 6:3-4 (NLT): When the Lamb broke the second seal, I heard the second living being say, “Come!” 4 Then another horse appeared, a red one. Its rider was given a mighty sword and the authority to take peace from the earth. And there was war and slaughter everywhere.

War is one of “the dreadful punishments” in God’s wrath. Ezekiel 14:21 (NLT): “Now this is what the Sovereign Lord says: How terrible it will be when all four of these dreadful punishments fall upon Jerusalem—war, famine, wild animals, and disease—destroying all her people and animals.

In 1 Th 1:10, Jesus will deliver us from the wrath to come. That is what occurs in 1 Th 4:17 (ESV): Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

We are pre-Trib raptured to the air of Heaven, when and where the Bema Seat takes place.”: 2 Tim 4:8 (ESV): Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.

We are “kept from the Trib” in Rev 3:1@. That matches the meaning in 1 Th 1:10 as Jesus “delivers us from the wrath to come.”

Can you now see the falsity of your Preterist beliefs? You keep adding to the Bible, in false ways.

This is applicable to all who promote falsehoods like the rapture to heaven and avoidance of trials a testings.
You should be worried, as what you teach is never Prophesied in the Bible.

Keras, I knew you wouldn’t refute the biblical truth I presented. You engage in personal attacks when you can’t refute. Thank you. You lost this debate.

Rev 4:1 is the certified verse that raptures the Church (Rev 3:10 and 1 Th 1:10) straight to Heaven. All glory to God Almighty!!!!!

 

[keras]

Rev 4:1 is the certified verse that raptures the Church (Rev 3:10 and 1 Th 1:10) straight to Heaven

The reliance on being raptured off the earth when disaster strikes, is a very bad mistake.
When you say; 'straight to heaven', you show how deceived you are. None of the verses you use say that. What we are told, many times is we must endure until the end.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

The reliance on being raptured off the earth when disaster strikes, is a very bad mistake.
When you say; 'straight to heaven', you show how deceived you are. None of the verses you use say that. What we are told, many times is we must endure until the end.

Matt 24:13 (ESV): But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

That verse pertains solely to Jews, as stated in Matt 24:22 (ESV): And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

Where does Rev 4:1 lead to?

We are kept from the Trib, as Jesus said in Rev 3:10. “Kept from” means made to be completely away from. The Trib will envelop the whole earth. Therefore, we are made to be completely away from Earth.

Jesus further stated in Rev 3:10 that only “those who dwell on the earth” will enter the Trib. Here’s one prime example of whom Jesus was specifying: Rev 11:10 (ESV): and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth.

Are you cited in Rev 11:10? Are you one of “those who dwell on the earth” during the Trib?

Rev 4:1 is the pre-Trib rapture of the Church straight to Heaven.

 

[keras]

Rev 4:1 is the pre-Trib rapture of the Church straight to Heaven.

Okay Dr Gobbels, if you repeat something often enough, the menschin, the hoi polloi, = the dumb masses, will believe it.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Okay Dr Gobbels, if you repeat something often enough, the menschin, the hoi polloi, = the dumb masses, will believe it.

How is it not true?

You’re not understanding the wording in Rev 4:1 (ESV): After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”

The voice that John first heard speaking to him like a trumpet is in Rev 1:10 (ESV): On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,

in Rev 4:1, John recognized the trumpet voice that first spoke to him in Rev 1:10. John only then quotes what that same trumpet voice said in Rev 4:1. What was quoted by John was not spoken about him.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

The reliance on being raptured off the earth when disaster strikes, is a very bad mistake.
When you say; 'straight to heaven', you show how deceived you are. None of the verses you use say that. What we are told, many times is we must endure until the end.

There is no biblical record of disease striking in the first two seals. Therefore, your claim is false. In the Trib, pestilence does not strike the earth until the 4th seal in Rev 6:8.

The wrath of God in the Trib starts no later than the 2nd seal, in the form of war (Ezekiel 14:21). Wars break out all over Earth. That is “the wrath to come” in 1 Th 1:10 (ESV): and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

In the context of 1 Th 1:10, the Trib is about to start from Rev 6:1-2. God then “delivers us from the wrath to come” which translates into a “snatching away.” We are snatched away straight to Heaven in Rev 4:1.

You claim the Church enters the Trib and goes through testing and must endure. You are quoting Matt 24:13, 22. Those verses are exclusively about Jews. The Church is pre-Trib raptured per Rev 3:10, 1 Th 1:10, 1 Th 4:16, 1 Cor 15:52 and 1 Th 4:17.

 

[keras]

How is it not true?

You’re not understanding the wording in Rev 4:1 (ESV): After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”

The voice that John first heard speaking to him like a trumpet is in Rev 1:10 (ESV): On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,

in Rev 4:1, John recognized the trumpet voice that first spoke to him in Rev 1:10. John only then quotes what that same trumpet voice said in Rev 4:1. What was quoted by John was not spoken about him.

If a theory can only be proved by convoluted reasoning, as you do and there is no definitive scripture to support that theory, then it is just a theory and not something which will happen.
As well as all that, there is plenty of verses that tell us what really will happen with Gods people in the end times. Psalms 23, Psalms 91. +