I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom

[Beth77]

People in hell will suffer God's wrath for eternity.

Nope. Only for a period of time.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Nope. Only for a period of time.

The Scripture clearly teaches of everlasting suffering in hell. People gave you the verses, yet you keep denying them. Any more discussion with you on this topic is a waste of time.

 

[Beth77]

The Scripture clearly teaches of everlasting suffering in hell. People gave you the verses, yet you keep denying them. Any more discussion with you on this topic is a waste of time.

So you deny 1 Corinthians 15:22.

 

[timothyu]

No, there was no evil, only good.

There had to be both as this universe we comprehend is made up of opposing forces. The thing is before man corrupted it, God said it was good.

 

[trophy33]

The human spirit is not extinguished, it is eternal.

Spirit as such is eternal, not just the human spirit. Spirit returns to God after death, as the Bible says:

"...and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it."
Ecc 12:7

Destruction (apollumi) is to ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being, . .as in the marring of the wine skins (Lk 5:37), of lost sheep (spiritual destitution, Lk 15:4, 6), the lost son (Lk 15:24), of the perishing food (Jn 6:27), of gold (1 Pe 1:7), of persons (Mt 2:13, 8:25, 22:7, 27:20), of the loss of well-being of the unsaved hereafter (Mt 10:28, Lk 13: 3, 5, Jn 3:15 or 16, Ro 2:12, 1 Co 15:18, 2 Co 2:15), "are perishing" (2 Co 4:3, 2 Th 2:10, Jas s4:12, 2 Pe 3:9).

Each verse has its specific meaning and context. This is not how to work with Bible. For example, the verse about wine skins cannot tell you what a verse about Gehenna is supposed to mean, just because they contain the same word somewhere in the sentence.

Did Jesus say the condemned ever get out of the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Mt 25:41)?

Already answered in the post #178

 

[Aaron112]

rebuilt in the LOF

Error so great and so sad. Woe to all those who introduced the error and taught/teach it as if true, deceiving even the elect if possible.

 

[Aaron112]

True. In the end, however, when they have nothing, they will seek God and he will save them.

Error so great, woe to those who promote or teach or even just believe this.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I recall a passage that says "anyone who dies has been set free from sin"

So one might say, in the same way that the first death cleanses the body, the second death cleanses the soul.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

And I wnated your thoughts on 1 JOHN 5:18 , o well !

dan p

Apparently my scriptural response was not in accordance with your non scriptural predisposition

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Maybe Jesus was speaking figuratively to drive home his point to Peter.

Unlikely Satan is merely figurative. That is considered heresy, rightfully within orthodoxy

Jesus was tempted by a real Satan. Not another person or himself

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Again satan means adversary. Anyone adversarial to the will of the Father is a satan.

I think we can be assured that Peter was not Satan and that a real Satan was involved in that event exactly as Jesus told us in Mark 4:15

Anyone who has experienced internal temptations by our adversary can attest to the fact of it, unless they too are blinded by the adversary

People are not Satan or devils, period

And the devil and his messengers will be in eternal hell, aka the LoF forever and ever

 

[timothyu]

I think we can be assured that Peter was not Satan and that a real Satan was involved in that event exactly as Jesus told us in Mark 4:15

That's fine if you don't believe in the Hebrew meaning.

 

[Clare73]

It means coming to an end. Again, Why would life be given to those of the second death?

Not to an end of existence, to an end of well-being.

I have no issue with the imputation of the sin of Adam and the righteousness of Christ. Amen! Romans chapter 5 along with 1st Corinthians 15 are two of the most incredibly glorious passages in all of Scripture wherein Paul commits two full chapters to poignantly and explicitly proclaiming the complete and universal salvation of ALL mankind.

But you have failed to support your “generational only” interpretation of 1st Corinthians 15.

Generate means by birth.

How does the imputation of sin/righteous equate to “generational only?” If anything, you have given further credence to my position. The imputation of sin due to one mans disobedience is global and complete resulting in death (physical & spiritual) to ALL men. The context and grammatical structure in 1st Corinthians 15:20-28 leave no room for speculation. Particularly verses 22-23 …

”For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ’s, at his coming.“
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15‬:‭22‬-‭23‬ ‭ASV‬‬

1 Corinthians 15:22-23 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ’s, at his coming. | American Standard Version (ASV) | Download The Bible App Now

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ’s, at his coming.

bible.com

By the way … I don’t need to “start with” anything. It’s not my responsibility to try and figure out how you arrive at your interpretation. I demonstrated how I came to arrive at my interpretation using context and grammatical consistency. Feel free to reciprocate if you are so inclined, or not. Also, we were discussing 1st Corinthians 15. Why not just stay there to support your position of “generational only“ concerning all those “in Adam?”

blessings …

 

[Clare73]

Spirit as such is eternal, not just the human spirit. Spirit returns to God after death, as the Bible says:
"...and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it."
Ecc 12:7
Each verse has its specific meaning and context. This is not how to work with Bible. For example, the verse about wine skins cannot tell you what a verse about Gehenna is supposed to mean, just because they contain the same word somewhere in the sentence.

Priceless!

 

[timothyu]

Not to an end of existence, to an end of well-being.

God made a promise of eternal life to the elohim, not to humans. Their lot in the lake is eternal torment because they cannot die due to God's unbreakable promise of eternal life. We humans on the other hand were not factory made to exist beyond a point without God's say so. Is he the type of God who will eliminate the tares among humankind, or torture for eternity to please the bloodlust of humans who hope their enemies burn?

 

[Clare73]

God made a promise of eternal life to the elohim, not to humans. Their lot in the lake is eternal torment because they cannot die due to God's unbreakable promise of eternal life. We humans on the other hand were not factory made to exist beyond a point without God's say so. Is he the type of God who will eliminate the tares among humankind, or torture for eternity to please the bloodlust of humans who hope their enemies burn?

Not according to Jesus in Mt 25:46: "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

 

[timothyu]

Not according to Jesus

When the tares of the field are burned do they suffer forever or are they returned to their previous state of growth material but not seed? If you were told at resurrection you were not worthy of the Kingdom but only a second death from which there is no reprieve, ever, no more resurrection into life, would that not be an eternal punishment? Does it have to include the human lust for torment?

 

[Clare73]

When the tares of the field are burned do they suffer forever or are they returned to their previous state of growth material but not seed? If you were told at resurrection you were not worthy of the Kingdom but only a second death from which there is no reprieve, ever, no more resurrection into life, would that not be an eternal punishment? Does it have to include the human lust for torment?

I'm sure you'll understand if I believe Jesus' words in Mt 25:46:
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
rather than your personal contra-Biblical heresy.

 

[Free2bHeretical4Him!]

I have no issue with the imputation of the sin of Adam and the righteousness of Christ. Amen! Romans chapter 5 along with 1st Corinthians 15 are two of the most incredibly glorious passages in all of Scripture wherein Paul commits two full chapters to poignantly and explicitly proclaiming the complete and universal salvation of ALL mankind.

But you have failed to support your “generational only” interpretation of 1st Corinthians 15.

Clare73 reply:
Generate means by birth.

My reply:
Yea. I know. I wanted to know how the imputed sin of Adam equates to a “generational only” interpretation of the 1st Corinthians 15 passage. How do you justify interpreting this treatise of Paul concerning the resurrection to isolate it to only mean physical? Again. Did ALL men die in Adam physically and spiritually OR did all men die in Adam only physically? If the later, please explain exactly why man needs saving if his death is only physical. What in this passage of Scripture supports your interpretation?

I have no issue with you going outside the text to further establish and support your position. But I believe every text of Scripture within its immediate given context should be able to stand alone on its own merits. THEN, shown to be consistent with the rest of Scripture. This passage, and a plethora of others, is perfectly consistent with my view of the complete and total salvation of ALL mankind (Romans 5 too). So as far I’m concerned, Paul is abundantly clear about his position also.

So far you have done nothing to demonstrate your position within the immediate context of 1st Corinthians 15. Do you feel Paul was a bit negligent, vague or ambiguous concerning his view on the resurrection which requires you to go outside of the immediate context for additional support?

blessings

P.S. I am a former 5 point Calvinist as I assume this is your position. I believe 4 of the 5 are grounded firmly within holy writ but, as I’m sure you are aware, I can no longer hold to a “limited atonement“ view. This point I find to be inconsistent with the overall context of Scripture.

 

[timothyu]

I'm sure you'll understand if I believe Jesus' words in Mt 25:46:

Certainly, but the definition of eternal punishment is at odds