I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom

[Clare73]

There is no "or" there. It is the same point. The fire and the worm were the means of the destruction in Gehenna. Not of torture.

The human spirit is not extinguished, it is eternal.

Destruction (apollumi) is to ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being, . .as in the marring of the wine skins (Lk 5:37), of lost sheep (spiritual destitution, Lk 15:4, 6), the lost son (Lk 15:24), of the perishing food (Jn 6:27), of gold (1 Pe 1:7), of persons (Mt 2:13, 8:25, 22:7, 27:20), of the loss of well-being of the unsaved hereafter (Mt 10:28, Lk 13: 3, 5, Jn 3:15 or 16, Ro 2:12, 1 Co 15:18, 2 Co 2:15), "are perishing" (2 Co 4:3, 2 Th 2:10, Jas s4:12, 2 Pe 3:9).

Did Jesus say the condemned ever get out of the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Mt 25:41)?

What?

Read it again.

 

[Beth77]

If they couldn't do God's will while alive, what makes you think they will automatically change in the next?

I'm just going by what the Bible says. Besides, I rely on God rather than my own understanding.

 

[timothyu]

The human spirit is not extinguished, it is eternal.

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell"

 

[Clare73]

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell"

"Destroy" does not mean extinguish, it means ruin.

See post #181.

 

[timothyu]

it means ruin.

Yes, total ruination. Incapable of any function whatsoever. Scrap at best. Lake fill. Why would life be given to those of the second death?

 

[Friar Tuck]

So you're defending an interpretation which you think could be false?

No I believe i'm right just as you believe your right , but that doesn't make right , right!.

 

[Clare73]

Yes, total ruination. Incapable of any function whatsoever. Scrap at best. Lake fill.

Ruination is not annihilation.

 

[timothyu]

Ruination is not annihilation.

It means coming to an end. Again, Why would life be given to those of the second death?

 

[Beth77]

It means coming to an end. Again, Why would life be given to those of the second death?

Does Jesus say in Revelation that he's making everything new?

 

[Dan Perez]

Does Jesus say in Revelation that he's making everything new?

And Christ says in the book of Revelation 10:15 and whosoever was NOT / OU , in the Greek , a DISJUNCATIVE

PARTICIPLE NEGATIVE , will NEVERRRRRRRR , that they are not witten in the BOOK of LIFE , were cast into

the LAKE of FIRE ,

dan p

 

[Free2bHeretical4Him!]

All are in Adam by natural generation and die, but not all are in Christ by faith and made alive, only those who believe in and trust on him and his atoning sacrifice for the remission of their sin are in Christ and made alive.

I have no issue with the imputation of the sin of Adam and the righteousness of Christ. Amen! Romans chapter 5 along with 1st Corinthians 15 are two of the most incredibly glorious passages in all of Scripture wherein Paul commits two full chapters to poignantly and explicitly proclaiming the complete and universal salvation of ALL mankind.

But you have failed to support your “generational only” interpretation of 1st Corinthians 15. How does the imputation of sin/righteous equate to “generational only?” If anything, you have given further credence to my position. The imputation of sin due to one mans disobedience is global and complete resulting in death (physical & spiritual) to ALL men. The context and grammatical structure in 1st Corinthians 15:20-28 leave no room for speculation. Particularly verses 22-23 …

”For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ’s, at his coming.“
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15‬:‭22‬-‭23‬ ‭ASV‬‬

1 Corinthians 15:22-23 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ’s, at his coming. | American Standard Version (ASV) | Download The Bible App Now

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ’s, at his coming.

bible.com

By the way … I don’t need to “start with” anything. It’s not my responsibility to try and figure out how you arrive at your interpretation. I demonstrated how I came to arrive at my interpretation using context and grammatical consistency. Feel free to reciprocate if you are so inclined, or not. Also, we were discussing 1st Corinthians 15. Why not just stay there to support your position of “generational only“ concerning all those “in Adam?”

blessings …

 

[Beth77]

And Christ says in the book of Revelation 10:15 and whosoever was NOT / OU , in the Greek , a DISJUNCATIVE

PARTICIPLE NEGATIVE , will NEVERRRRRRRR , that they are not witten in the BOOK of LIFE , were cast into

the LAKE of FIRE ,

dan p

So you don't believe that Jesus will make everything new. Ok.

 

[timothyu]

So you don't believe that Jesus will make everything new. Ok.

New doesn't mean as it was. people seem to think that what we are aware of now by way of our consciousness will continue. yet we did not have this consciousness we have now in the beginning. It changed drastically. If we chose to know, we can choose to forget.

 

[Beth77]

New doesn't mean as it was. people seem to think that what we are aware of now by way of our consciousness will continue. yet we did not have this consciousness we have now in the beginning. It changed drastically. If we chose to know, we can choose to forgetOK.

I think it's pretty clear EVERYTHING is made NEW.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

And Christ says in the book of Revelation 10:15 and whosoever was NOT / OU , in the Greek , a DISJUNCATIVE

PARTICIPLE NEGATIVE , will NEVERRRRRRRR , that they are not witten in the BOOK of LIFE , were cast into

the LAKE of FIRE ,

dan p

So is the underlying premise here annihilation?

The concept of "Behold I make all things new" after the Lake of fire either implies all things are made new including those in the lake of fire .. or the lake of fire caused people to cease to exist, and thus they are not part of "the all things"

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Because I shared a lot of scripture to support the doctrine that, eventually, all who ever existed will be in God's Kingdom. I encourage you to scroll through and read them.

Yes, I wanted to reply to the verses you posted, but did not have time, but I will get to it.

 

[Hoping2]

Inaccurate translation. Here is a correct translation.

Matthew 25:46
Young's Literal Translation
46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

That is a good example of why not to depend on "literal" translations.
They make no sense.
Jesus said "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." KJV (Matt 25:45-46)
As the life of the righteous is eternal, so too is the punishment of the unrighteous.

 

[timothyu]

so too is the punishment of the unrighteous.

Yes, second death eternally

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

DESTROY, not torture.

Rev 14 9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

People in hell will suffer God's wrath for eternity.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

When God created everything there was both good and evil

No, there was no evil, only good.