Can Salvation be lost?

[Bible Highlighter]

No I am not saying that...

Tasting, knowing and being indwelled are quite different.

Some come to church and become 'christianised' without being born again and indwelled.

So you are saying they were never saved.
If that is the case, then how can they be once enlightened and be partakers of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Carl Emerson]

So you are saying they were never saved.
If that is the case, then how can they be once enlightened and be partakers of the Holy Spirit?

Understanding who Jesus is does not make you born again.

Enjoying the presence of God among believers does not make you born again.

 

[Tom8907]

A sovereign, all knowing God wouldn't save someone and then essentially say "Just kidding"

 

[Dave G.]

More people hang themselves on the one verse in Hebrews 6, when further down in the same portion of text, it states, but I know you are not like this.

I'm with Carl on this one. Many folks sit in pews each and every week, they partake of the goings on there that are of the Holy Spirit, but themselves were never saved. In due time they may indeed walk away. Meanwhile if the rapture came, how many would be left sitting in those pews that day, fully convinced they were Christian but clearly not, as the Christians are gone. Lets say they were christianesque. They knew of it all, well taught, but received not the fruit of the Spirit.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Understanding who Jesus is does not make you born again.

Enjoying the presence of God among believers does not make you born again.

That's splitting hairs. The straight forward reading of the passage does not suggest they were not saved. Surely if that was the case, then we would get some kind of indication that this was so. But you have to insert that into the text when it is not there. You have to create this hidden narrative that does not really jive with a normal reading. You are not enlightened and not a partaker of the Holy Spirit if other people have the Spirit and you don't. That does not make any sense.

 

[Bro.T]

This passage refers to Tares in the Church, not true believers.

You are not reading that verse correctly, those where believers at one time and taste the good word of God, but fell away from the truth. Let's read it again with better understanding....Paul says in (Heb. 6:4-6) (v.4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (v.5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, (v.6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

So you can be enlightened, be partakers of the Holy Ghost, taste the good word of God and still it’s possible for you to fall away. Just as you choose to serve God of you own free will you can by that same free will decide to stop serving God. You are what is called a free agent, the choice is yours. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord.

 

[Bro.T]

Personally I believe the truely born again give up their 'free will' to God and invite Him to take control of their lives. - every time they pray the Lord's prayer this is expressed. Further more their salvation is sealed by the indwelling Holy Spirit - see Jeremiah 32:40

Paul said in (1 Cor. 15:1-2) (v.1) MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; (v.2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. Paul is telling you right here that you are saved by the gospel that he preached unto you if you keep it in memory. So what happens if you don’t keep it in memory? Then you have believed in vain you have believed for nothing that’s what vain means.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Paul said in (1 Cor. 15:1-2) (v.1) MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; (v.2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. Paul is telling you right here that you are saved by the gospel that he preached unto you if you keep it in memory. So what happens if you don’t keep it in memory? Then you have believed in vain you have believed for nothing that’s what vain means.

You might consider verse 10...

"I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me."

Grace is what saves, not our holding on...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You might consider verse 10...

"I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me."

Grace is what saves, not our holding on...

We are told:

• “...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).
• "Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).
• "...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You might consider verse 10...

"I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me."

Grace is what saves, not our holding on...

Think. Why all the warnings like with the Sheep and Goats, and the Parable of the Talents if it is all God forcing you to be saved?
Your position doesn't make any sense.
It may be comforting, but it simply is not true when you look at the whole counsel of God’s Word (and you know it).
Be not deceived, the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
Yet, I hear most Christians who believe in Eternal Security state (using other words) they can live like the devil and be saved.
Sorry, it just doesn’t work like that and you know that deep down (See: Matthew 13:41-42).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You might consider verse 10...

"I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me."

Grace is what saves, not our holding on...

Most believers I have encountered who hold to OSAS basically state that they can sin and still be saved on some level.
But Jesus tells us that those believers who do iniquity will be cast into the furnace of fire.

Matthew 13:41-42
"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

The Son of man (JESUS) shall send forth his angels and they shall gather out of HIS KINGDOM (i.e., Christ's Kingdom) all... which do iniquity (sin) and shall cast them into a furnace of fire (i.e., the Lake of Fire).

John 8:34-35
"Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever:..."

So the servant of sin will not abide in the house of Christ (or Christ's Kingdom) forever. They will be cast out into the furnace of fire just as Matthew 13:41-42 says.

 

[Carl Emerson]

We are told:

• “...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).
• "Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).
• "...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

We are also told...

John 10.
27 My sheep know my voice, and I know them. They follow me,
28 and I give them eternal life, so that they will never be lost. No one can snatch them out of my hand.
29 My Father gave them to me, and he is greater than all others. No one can snatch them from his hands,
30 and I am one with the Father.

We are also told...

Jude 1
24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

We are also told...

Romans 8
I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We are also told...

1 Thes 5
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

We are also told...

John 5:24​

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

We are also told...

1 John 5:11-13​

And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

I could go on... There are about 100 verses supporting assurance of salvation.

In a lot of cases - verses suggesting the contrary are addressed to the church which had a mix of true believers and the unsaved. The warning then was to encourage the latter to press in to real faith and salvation.

 

[Bro.T]

You might consider verse 10...

"I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me."

Grace is what saves, not our holding on...

I agree, grace saves. but we have to get up and get it off the table. How? By coming under the blood Jesus. Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation

It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)

 

[Carl Emerson]

I agree, grace saves. but we have to get up and get it off the table. How? By coming under the blood Jesus. Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation

It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)

Having been in a state where I couldn't 'get up off the table' before returning to Faith, I know it is all of Grace.

 

[Rescued One]

God doesn't take away a believer's desire to leave, particularly in the face of persecution. If there's no chance that a true believer could potentially lose their salvation, then there would have been no need for the various warnings that "only those who overcome Rev 2:26; 3:5 & v21" shall inherit the promise

Everyone has an opinion, but the sheep follow the Good Shepherd.

But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
JOHN 10:26

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Everyone has an opinion, but the sheep follow the Good Shepherd.

But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
JOHN 10:26

Many Christians today are not following Jesus (i.e., the shepherd of the sheep).
It is not easy to follow Jesus, and takes a complete surrender, with prayer, and fasting.
It's not like you are forced against your will by God to do this.
Its not like you woke up in the middle of the night and wondered how you helped the poor, and spread the gospel or helped (loved) the brethren in amazing ways. So the sheep FOLLOWING the shepherd is the condition of not being snatched out of His hand.
Following is not forced upon us by God. I do not see Christians talking about how they were moved about like a rag doll doing the will of God against their own desires.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

We are also told...

John 10.
27 My sheep know my voice, and I know them. They follow me,
28 and I give them eternal life, so that they will never be lost. No one can snatch them out of my hand.
29 My Father gave them to me, and he is greater than all others. No one can snatch them from his hands,
30 and I am one with the Father.

We are also told...

Jude 1
24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

We are also told...

Romans 8
I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We are also told...

1 Thes 5
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

We are also told...

John 5:24​

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

We are also told...

1 John 5:11-13​

And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

I could go on... There are about 100 verses supporting assurance of salvation.

In a lot of cases - verses suggesting the contrary are addressed to the church which had a mix of true believers and the unsaved. The warning then was to encourage the latter to press in to real faith and salvation.

In John 10, the condition of "never perish" (The trusty KJV) (not lost) is one must be a FOLLOWER of Jesus. If one is a lazy sheep that refuses to follow the shepherd in what He says, then the condition of not perishing does not stand anymore (as I clearly shown to you with Matthew 12:41-42, and John 8:34-35).

In Jude 1:21 is not undone by Jude 1:24-25. Jude 1:21 still says: "Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." So its both. God can keep you from falling, but you have to do your part, too as verse 21 says. It's a relationship and not a forced hostile takeover like from the invasion of the body snatchers.

Romans 8:1 says that the condition of not being under the Condemnation is to walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh (as the trusty KJV says). So if you are not walking after the Spirit and walking after the flesh, there is condemnation. Well, that is if you believe Romans 8:1. Romans 8:38-39 is talking about how external things cannot separate you from the love of God. It does not list "you" or "sin" in that list. Be not deceived. The unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

As for John 5:24: You do not understand fully what that verse is saying. You have to HEAR the Word (as the verse says). Meaning, you have to obey the Word and believe on him (the Father) who sent Jesus so that the condition of passing from death to life can happen.

As for 1 John 5:18-19 It also says: "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. "

 

[David Lamb]

Many Christians today are not following Jesus (i.e., the shepherd of the sheep).
It is not easy to follow Jesus, and takes a complete surrender, with prayer, and fasting.
It's not like you are forced against your will by God to do this.
Its not like you woke up in the middle of the night and wondered how you helped the poor, and spread the gospel or helped (loved) the brethren in amazing ways. So the sheep FOLLOWING the shepherd is the condition of not being snatched out of His hand.
Following is not forced upon us by God. I do not see Christians talking about how they were moved about like a rag doll doing the will of God against their own desires.

If somebody is not following Jesus, how can that person be a Christian? The very word "Christian" means "Christ follower." I hasten to add that no Christian follows Christ perfectly, but all true Christians do follow Jesus.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If somebody is not following Jesus, how can that person be a Christian? The very word "Christian" means "Christ follower." I hasten to add that no Christian follows Christ perfectly, but all true Christians do follow Jesus.

Well, most Christians I have run into say they can sin and still be saved. That is the opposite of following Christ because Jesus never taught that we can just justify sin and be okay with God. Believers have to repent and turn from their evil ways and follow the Lord Jesus Christ. It's like the voice of one crying in the wilderness. But will believers today heed that cry?

 

[David Lamb]

Well, most Christians I have run into say they can sin and still be saved. That is the opposite of following Christ because Jesus never taught that we can just justify sin and be okay with God. Believers have to repent and turn from their evil ways and follow the Lord Jesus Christ. It's like the voice of one crying in the wilderness. But will believers today heed that cry?

I think we need to be careful here. It would be wrong for a Christian to say, "Hooray! I am saved! Now I can live how I like, sin as much as I want to!" Yet at the same time, Christians do fall into sin even after they have become Christians, but they don't justify their sin; they confess it to God and seek His forgiveness.