Limited atonement !

[Brightfame52]

So what about Gentiles? They were not Christ's people.

Romans 9:25
Concerning the Gentiles, God says in the prophecy of Hosea, “Those who were not my people, I will now call my people. And I will love those whom I did not love before.”

Christ died not only for his people, but he died also for those who were not his people that he might call them his people. Gentiles were not his people. You commit the Negative Inference Fallacy. Look it up.

Yes some Gentiles are His People

 

[Brightfame52]

I don't see the word "only" in Paul's statement. You added it. Again you commit the Negative Inference fallacy. The statement "He gave himself for the Church" does NOT mean that he gave himself only for the Church.

The word only doesnt have to be there, Paul was being specific as to who Christ died for and the results of it.

 

[David Lamb]

Paul said that God set forth Christ to be an atonement THROUGH FAITH (Romans 3:25). This is the unadulterated, de-calvinized gospel.

Well, Romans 3:25 says:

“whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,” (Ro 3:25 NKJV)

Those of us who believe Calvinist doctrines also believe that God set forth Jesus Christ as a propitiation by His blood, so I am not sure why you call Romans 3:25 a "de-calvinized gospel." What doctrine of Calvinism goes against that verse?

 

[David Lamb]

They were not his sheep because they did not believe Moses, not because they were not elect.

46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”

No, Jesus said that they did not believe because they were not His sheep, not that they weren't His sheep because they did not believe (whether in Moses or in Christ):

“"But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.” (Joh 10:26 NKJV)

 

[Brightfame52]

Again you are committing the Negative Inference fallacy. Gentiles were not elect.

"You [Israel] ONLY have I chosen of all the families of the earth." Hosea 3:2
"Jacob [Israel] have I loved. Esau [Gentiles] have I hated." Malachi 1:1-2

You cannot hold that Christ is the propitiation for the elect only without excluding Gentiles. The Ninevites were not elect. But God saved them.

Those whom Christ died for, His Sheep Jn 10 for them He obtained eternal redemption for, so that limits His death to them who have ternal redemption.

 

[David Lamb]

Again you are committing the Negative Inference fallacy. Gentiles were not elect.

"You [Israel] ONLY have I chosen of all the families of the earth." Hosea 3:2
"Jacob [Israel] have I loved. Esau [Gentiles] have I hated." Malachi 1:1-2

You cannot hold that Christ is the propitiation for the elect only without excluding Gentiles. The Ninevites were not elect. But God saved them.

If Gentile Christians were not elect, why did Paul write to the largely-Gentile church at Ephesus:

“Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.” (Eph 1:1-6 NKJV)

The word translated "chose" there is the same word as is translated "elect" elsewhere.

 

[Brightfame52]

If Gentile Christians were not elect, why did Paul write to the largely-Gentile church at Ephesus:

“Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.” (Eph 1:1-6 NKJV)

The word translated "chose" there is the same word as is translated "elect" elsewhere.

Yes Gentiles were always Gods People, it was a Mystery however. Eph 3:4-6


4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

 

[Jack Terrence]

I have no problem with Rom 3:25. Do you care to exegete it or something ? Just dont toss scripture at folk without thorough explaining them

I explained it already but you said it was "false." Go back and read what I said and your one word reply. You said that what I said was "false" without explaining why what I said is false.

 

[Jack Terrence]

The word only doesnt have to be there, Paul was being specific as to who Christ died for and the results of it.

Yes, the word "only" has to be there. Hebrews 8 says that God made a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. This was specific as to who God made a new covenant with. Are you prepared to say that the new covenant is for the houses of Israel and Judah "only"?

In Galatians 4 Paul said that God sent Christ to redeem those who were under the law. This is specific as to those who Christ came to redeem. Paul said that Gentiles were not under the law. Ae you prepared to say that Gentiles were not included in redemption? I think not.

You do not apply your hermeneutic consistently.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Those whom Christ died for, His Sheep Jn 10 for them He obtained eternal redemption for, so that limits His death to them who have ternal redemption.

His sheep were Israelites.

"I was sent ONLY to the lost dheep ofcthe house of Israel." Matthew 15:24

By your own logic you limit redemption to Israel. You haven't thought it through. You're just repeating worn out Calvinist arguments.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Well, Romans 3:25 says:

“whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,” (Ro 3:25 NKJV)

Those of us who believe Calvinist doctrines also believe that God set forth Jesus Christ as a propitiation by His blood, so I am not sure why you call Romans 3:25 a "de-calvinized gospel." What doctrine of Calvinism goes against that verse?

You excluded the words "through faith." That's what Calvinist believe. They believe that faith is excluded.

 

[Jack Terrence]

No, Jesus said that they did not believe because they were not His sheep, not that they weren't His sheep because they did not believe (whether in Moses or in Christ):

“"But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.” (Joh 10:26 NKJV)

That's what I said. I said that they did not believe Jesus because they were not his sheep. But the reason they were not his sheep was because they did not believe Moses. Believing Moses is what made a Jew his sheep. Then they will believe Jesus.

"If you believed Moses you WOULD believe me."

 

[Jack Terrence]

If Gentile Christians were not elect, why did Paul write to the largely-Gentile church at Ephesus:

“Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.” (Eph 1:1-6 NKJV)

The word translated "chose" there is the same word as is translated "elect" elsewhere.

The first 12 verses of Ephesians 1 were addressed to those who "FIRST trusted Christ" (verse 12). Those who first trusted Christ were Jews because the gospel was preached to them first. Therefore, they were those who were chosen in verses 4 & 11. Paul didn't address Gentiles until verse 13. He didn't tell them that they were chosen. In fact, he told them that they were aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers of the covenants of promise, and that they were without hope and without God in the world. If they were chosen they would have been under the covenants of promise even before they were converted just like Israelites were before they were converted.

 

[Brightfame52]

His sheep were Israelites.

"I was sent ONLY to the lost dheep ofcthe house of Israel." Matthew 15:24

By your own logic you limit redemption to Israel. You haven't thought it through. You're just repeating worn out Calvinist arguments.

No their were more sheep besides jewish fold Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


Theyre part of the lost sheep of israel also !