THE QUESTION IS HOW IS ISRAEL SAVED ??

[Jeff Saunders]

And I believe , is where ATONEMENT first BEGAN .

DEATH BEGAN and BLOOD was shed as death on the CROSS .

dan p

So if God saved Adam and Eve by killing and animal why did Jesus come to die on the cross? Does not Hebrews tell us that the blood of animals saves no one? If this were true then Jesus dying on the cross was unnecessary, if we could be saved by animal blood why would Jesus have to come and die?
Could it be possible that when Jesus said in John 14:6" that no man comes to the Father but by him", he really knew what he was saying, but because most of the " Church" believe that people can't repent after their mortal body is dead, they have to believe that the blood of animals saves also or their house of cards falls down. If Adam and all those after him had to accept Jesus after the death of their mortal bodies, then maybe those who die now will be given the same grace from God and will be able to do the same. How else can scripture say in Phil 2:10-11 Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord ?

 

[Dan Perez]

So if God saved Adam and Eve by killing and animal why did Jesus come to die on the cross? Does not Hebrews tell us that the blood of animals saves no one? If this were true then Jesus dying on the cross was unnecessary, if we could be saved by animal blood why would Jesus have to come and die?
Could it be possible that when Jesus said in John 14:6" that no man comes to the Father but by him", he really knew what he was saying, but because most of the " Church" believe that people can't repent after their mortal body is dead, they have to believe that the blood of animals saves also or their house of cards falls down. If Adam and all those after him had to accept Jesus after the death of their mortal bodies, then maybe those who die now will be given the same grace from God and will be able to do the same. How else can scripture say in Phil 2:10-11 Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord ?

They were SAVE by ATONEMENT .

And ATONEMENT then continued in the LAW and is why HIGH priest and priests were needed AND Aaron was the

first HIGH PRIEST , with his sons

dan p

 

[Jeff Saunders]

They were SAVE by ATONEMENT .

And ATONEMENT then continued in the LAW and is why HIGH priest and priests were needed AND Aaron was the

first HIGH PRIEST , with his sons

dan p

They were SAVE by ATONEMENT .

And ATONEMENT then continued in the LAW and is why HIGH priest and priests were needed AND Aaron was the

first HIGH PRIEST , with his sons

dan p

So they didn’t have to accept Jesus?

 

[Dan Perez]

So they didn’t have to accept Jesus?

And I believe what wrote in 1 Tim 1 : 15 that PAUL WAS the frst person saved by GRACE that says 1 am

FIRST // PROTOS .

Then in 1 Tim 1:16 But for this reason was given mercy in order that in me FIRST // PROTOS , CHRIST JESUS

might show forth ALL LONGSUFFERING for A PATTERN , for the ONES coming to BELIEVE on Him unto

EVERLASTING LIFE ,

Paul only ROM 1:1 GOD'S GOSPEL IN Rom 1:1 and was SEPARATED // APHORIZO , which means , SEPARARAED , LIMTED

and BOUNDARIES , to only preach GOD'S GOSPEL , PERIOD and no OTHER !

Do not believe any ther WAY !!

This then means that THE BODY of CHRIST , BEGAN WITH PAUL , how about that !!

dan p

 

[Jeff Saunders]

And I believe what wrote in 1 Tim 1 : 15 that PAUL WAS the frst person saved by GRACE that says 1 am

FIRST // PROTOS .

Then in 1 Tim 1:16 But for this reason was given mercy in order that in me FIRST // PROTOS , CHRIST JESUS

might show forth ALL LONGSUFFERING for A PATTERN , for the ONES coming to BELIEVE on Him unto

EVERLASTING LIFE ,

Paul only ROM 1:1 GOD'S GOSPEL IN Rom 1:1 and was SEPARATED // APHORIZO , which means , SEPARARAED , LIMTED

and BOUNDARIES , to only preach GOD'S GOSPEL , PERIOD and no OTHER !

Do not believe any ther WAY !!

dan p

I am sorry but that did not make any sense to me at all.
Let me ask this a different way, is there any other way to the Father except through Jesus?

 

[Dan Perez]

I am sorry but that did not make any sense to me at all.
Let me ask this a different way, is there any other way to the Father except through Jesus?

And believe what you wrote , and how will it change it ?/

Raed Acts 19:3 , and Paul said , John BAPTIZED // BAPTIZO , with a BAPTISM , but BAPTISM is NOT IN THE Greek text

, BIT THE GREEK , word in the Greek text is BAPTISMA , now what does it mean , of REPENTANCE saying to the PEOPLE

, IN order that they should believe in the ONE coming after him , that is the JESUS and in verse 5 , and having heard this

they were BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS , it was not Paul that BAPTIZED them as the Greek text does

not say that Paul DID !!

AND IN VERSE 6 , having laid hands upon THEM , THE HOLY SPIRIT came upon THEM and they were speaking

in LANGUAGES and were PROPPHESY .

dan p

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

The real question at play in these matters is, WHY do we think any Jew is not already saved?

They are all God's children, as cited by Deut. 14:1, Psalm 82:6, and Matt. 23:9, among other scriptures likewise.

We know from the episodes of Balaam this fact about Israel:

Numbers 23:21

He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the Lord his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them.

This is identical to what Paul says in 2 Cor. 5:19, that SINS are "not counted" against people.

So what is really going on with Israel? God Himself put a spirit of slumber or stupor upon them. If you follow the drift here, there is the person of Israel and THEN there is a spirit that is not them that was/is put upon them that don't believe.

This would be the same condition as any person who can not see or hear the Gospel, as noted by Paul in 2 Cor. 4:4 and Eph. 2:2 for example. The "god of this world" has blinded them. The "prince of the power of the air." The "spirit of disobedience."

We were no different than they prior to having that same spirit pulled back far enough to see and hear that God in Christ is indeed our Savior. Doesn't mean that same spirit was eliminated. The only difference is that we "see" our former state. Not that it changed. We are given dominion over that spirit, not eradication of it.

So, is Israel currently "born again?" Listen to what John says below, and then maybe think again about Israel, and about "all people."

1 John 4:7
Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

Time to tear down phony religious walls and stop blocking the Gates of Heaven, as this kind of blocking action is actually OF THE DEVIL in those who do so. Not that I'd blame you mind you. I see who the PERP is. It's not YOU.

What attitude are we to have for the unseeing of Israel?

MERCY.

Romans 11:31
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

Be careful how you measure anyone, especially those blinded by the spirit of stupor of Israel. Deriding any child of God is in fact the acts of the spirit of stupor upon themselves.

Love your neighbors

 

[Guojing]

How were Adam and all those who came before Jesus saved?
John 14:6 " I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me"
All those who came before Jesus had to accept him after their mortal body had died, otherwise there are multiple paths to the Father and Jesus was mistaken, and the cross was unnecessary.

Salvation, in the same sense as being offered to us today, was not offered explicitly in the period before Jesus first coming.

All Adam and the other OT saints knew was to "obey God", on whatever instructions he gave then. To God, that was faith.

Based on that faith, they were saved.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Salvation, in the same sense as being offered to us today, was not offered explicitly in the period before Jesus first coming.

All Adam and the other OT saints knew was to "obey God", on whatever instructions he gave then. To God, that was faith.

Based on that faith, they were saved.

So they were saved by their faith, not because of Jesus?

 

[Clare73]

Salvation, in the same sense as being offered to us today, was not offered explicitly in the period before Jesus first coming.

Contraire. . .

They were saved by faith (Ge 15:6) in the promise (Ge 15:5; Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16).

 

[Dan Perez]

Contraire. . .

They were saved by faith (Ge 15:6) in the promise (Ge 15:5; Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16).

And i read Gen 15: 5 and on and did not see the word FAITH

But ABAHAM said to CHRIST , how do I know I will INHERET that land and Christ show ABE THE sacrifices .

dan p

 

[Guojing]

Contraire. . .

They were saved by faith (Ge 15:6) in the promise (Ge 15:5; Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16).

Read the remaining part of my post you cut out.

 

[Guojing]

So they were saved by their faith, not because of Jesus?

I am sure Jesus was the object of their faith in the end, but my point is, they obeyed God based on whatever instructions God gave them.

For example, if you asked Noah in Genesis, he will not be thinking, "I was saved because of Jesus".

He just build an ark because God commanded that, and because of that, God recognize his faith, and save him in the end.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

I am sure Jesus was the object of their faith in the end, but my point is, they obeyed God based on whatever instructions God gave them.

For example, if you asked Noah in Genesis, he will not be thinking, "I was saved because of Jesus".

He just build an ark because God commanded that, and because of that, God recognize his faith, and save him in the end.

I agree that the ark saved Noah from the flood, but what saved him after his mortal body went into the grave?
Did Noah have to bend the knee to Jesus when Jesus went down into the grave and set the captives free?
I believe that when Jesus said" no one comes to the Father except through me" , that was a forever truth and all those on the grave had to bend the knee to Jesus when he went down to the grave.
That has not changed in this age, most will be reconciles in the grave, very few find Jesus and life while in the mortal body.
I believe that Jesus is still and will always be the only way to the Father, sadly most can't passed the mortal bodies addiction to self and will only see Jesus as he truly is after their mortal body is taken out of the picture, thereby losing their inheritance in being part of the Kingdom and now they will be subjects of that Kingdom.

 

[Guojing]

I agree that the ark saved Noah from the flood, but what saved him after his mortal body went into the grave?
Did Noah have to bend the knee to Jesus when Jesus went down into the grave and set the captives free?

No one knows this because scripture did not say anything. He may have done that in the place of paradise, or Abraham's bosom, but why does that really matter?

I believe that when Jesus said" no one comes to the Father except through me" , that was a forever truth and all those on the grave had to bend the knee to Jesus when he went down to the grave.
That has not changed in this age, most will be reconciles in the grave, very few find Jesus and life while in the mortal body.
I believe that Jesus is still and will always be the only way to the Father, sadly most can't passed the mortal bodies addiction to self and will only see Jesus as he truly is after their mortal body is taken out of the picture, thereby losing their inheritance in being part of the Kingdom and now they will be subjects of that Kingdom.

Even if Noah did that after he fell asleep and went to Abraham's bosom, my point remains, which is

Salvation, in the same sense as being offered to us today, was not offered explicitly in the period before Jesus first coming.

All Adam and the other OT saints knew was to "obey God", on whatever instructions he gave then. To God, that was faith.

Based on that faith, they were saved.

You are not really disagreeing with my point above.

 

[Hawkins]

To me, it boils down to how David is saved, by which covenant he's saved. You may need to answer this question first, before the question on how the Jews are saved.

 

[Guojing]

To me, it boils down to how David is saved, by which covenant he's saved. You may need to answer this question first, before the question on how the Jews are saved.

David was not offered salvation in the OT.

Like the rest of Israel under the Old Covenant, he has to make sure he remains part of the nation of Israel for his lifetime, and not get cut off.

He will then be in paradise after his death, and wait for the coming of the Messiah, (Daniel 12:1-2, Romans 11:25-27)

 

[David Lamb]

David was not offered salvation in the OT.

Like the rest of Israel under the Old Covenant, he has to make sure he remains part of the nation of Israel for his lifetime, and not get cut off.

He will then be in paradise after his death, and wait for the coming of the Messiah, (Daniel 12:1-2, Romans 11:25-27)

Over and over again, David praises God for His salvation. For example:

“«A Psalm of David.» The LORD is my light and my salvation; Whom shall I fear? The LORD is the strength of my life; Of whom shall I be afraid?” (Ps 27:1 NKJV)

 

[Dan Perez]

Over and over again, David praises God for His salvation. For example:

“«A Psalm of David.» The LORD is my light and my salvation; Whom shall I fear? The LORD is the strength of my life; Of whom shall I be afraid?” (Ps 27:1 NKJV)

And CHRIST had a covenant with King David in 1 Chr 17:27 .

dan p

 

[Dan Perez]

So they didn’t have to accept Jesus?

So they didn’t have to accept Jesus?

And in 2 Cor 3:13 says , And not as Moses ( who ) wasplacing a COVERING upon his FACE , forthe children of Israel

NOT // ME , is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , means NOTTTTT to ever let Israel , to gaze toward the END

OF that being ABOLIHED , meaning the seetind ASIDE OF THE LAW .

And in verse 14 , and at the READING of the OLD COVENABT the same covering remain , NOT being Uncovered

which is being ABOLISHED by CHRIST , meaning the LAW is being side ASIDE ..

VERSE 16 , But when he ( Israel ) should turn TOWARD the LORD , the COVERING is being TAKEN AWAY

and way Israel will THEN be BORN AGAIN !!

And to day we are saved by Rom 10 : 9 and 10 , to enter the BODY of CHRIST and no so called BORN AGAIN !

dan p