THE QUESTION IS HOW IS ISRAEL SAVED ??

[Guojing]

Over and over again, David praises God for His salvation. For example:

“«A Psalm of David.» The LORD is my light and my salvation; Whom shall I fear? The LORD is the strength of my life; Of whom shall I be afraid?” (Ps 27:1 NKJV)

As I said

Like the rest of Israel under the Old Covenant, he has to make sure he remains part of the nation of Israel for his lifetime, and not get cut off.

He will then be in paradise after his death, and wait for the coming of the Messiah, (Daniel 12:1-2, Romans 11:25-27)

 

[Jeff Saunders]

No one knows this because scripture did not say anything. He may have done that in the place of paradise, or Abraham's bosom, but why does that really matter?



Even if Noah did that after he fell asleep and went to Abraham's bosom, my point remains, which is



You are not really disagreeing with my point above.

Jesus said no one comes to the Father but through him, so all people must bend the knee and confess that Jesus is Lord, for most that is post mortem, for a few that is in this mortal life.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

And in 2 Cor 3:13 says , And not as Moses ( who ) wasplacing a COVERING upon his FACE , forthe children of Israel

NOT // ME , is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , means NOTTTTT to ever let Israel , to gaze toward the END

OF that being ABOLIHED , meaning the seetind ASIDE OF THE LAW .

And in verse 14 , and at the READING of the OLD COVENABT the same covering remain , NOT being Uncovered

which is being ABOLISHED by CHRIST , meaning the LAW is being side ASIDE ..

VERSE 16 , But when he ( Israel ) should turn TOWARD the LORD , the COVERING is being TAKEN AWAY

and way Israel will THEN be BORN AGAIN !!

And to day we are saved by Rom 10 : 9 and 10 , to enter the BODY of CHRIST and no so called BORN AGAIN !

dan p

I am sorry but why can't you just answer the questions and have a discussion?
That was not an answer.

 

[Dan Perez]

I am sorry but why can't you just answer the questions and have a discussion?
That was not an answer.

I am sorry but why can't you just answer the questions and have a discussion?
That was not an answer.

And what post # do you mean ??

dan p

 

[Guojing]

Jesus said no one comes to the Father but through him, so all people must bend the knee and confess that Jesus is Lord, for most that is post mortem, for a few that is in this mortal life.

No worries, for Israel, they will only receive salvation at the end, when Jesus returns for the nation. (Daniel 12:1-3, Romans 11:25-27, 1 Peter 1:9)

So yes, you are correct there.

That is not the same as saying, Noah knew he had to do that in Genesis

 

[David Lamb]

And CHRIST had a covenant with King David in 1 Chr 17:27 .

dan p

Sorry, I am not quite sure how that follows from my post which was written in answer to Guojing, who had written, "David was not offered salvation in the OT."

 

[Jeff Saunders]

And what post # do you mean ??

dan p

#63

 

[Jeff Saunders]

No worries, for Israel, they will only receive salvation at the end, when Jesus returns for the nation. (Daniel 12:1-3, Romans 11:25-27, 1 Peter 1:9)

So yes, you are correct there.

That is not the same as saying, Noah knew he had to do that in Genesis

Noah had no idea that Jesus was going to do what he did, Noah had to wait till Jesus went to sheol after his crucifixion, and set the captives free.
When Jesus went to sheol, all saw him and all bent the knee and confessed Jesus is Lord, then he lead them to God. This is all part of Gods creation it is not done till 1Cor 15:28 when the last enemy is conquered (death) and God will be all in all , then New Heaven and New Earth and creation will be complete.
After that we have no idea of what God has planned for his creation, but it will bw great.

 

[Dan Perez]

Sorry, I am not quite sure how that follows from my post which was written in answer to Guojing, who had written, "David was not offered salvation in the OT."

And Rom 10:9 That if you should CONFESS with yur mouth the Lord Jesus , should believe in your HEART that God raised

Him from the the DEAD , you WILL BE SAVED ,

VERSE10 says , For with the heart he blieves to Righteousness and with the MOUTH he confesses to SALVATIN

dan p

 

[Guojing]

Noah had no idea that Jesus was going to do what he did, Noah had to wait till Jesus went to sheol after his crucifixion, and set the captives free.

So may I conclude you agree with my 2 statements here?

All Adam and the other OT saints knew was to "obey God", on whatever instructions he gave then. To God, that was faith.

Based on that faith, they were saved.

 

[Guojing]

Sorry, I am not quite sure how that follows from my post which was written in answer to Guojing, who had written, "David was not offered salvation in the OT."

You do agree with my point that "for Israel, they will only receive salvation at the end, when Jesus returns for the nation. (Daniel 12:1-3, Romans 11:25-27, 1 Peter 1:9)"?

 

[David Lamb]

You do agree with my point that "for Israel, they will only receive salvation at the end, when Jesus returns for the nation. (Daniel 12:1-3, Romans 11:25-27, 1 Peter 1:9)"?

No, I believe that when a sinner (whether and Israelite sinner or a Gentile sinner) believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, they are saved.

 

[Guojing]

No, I believe that when a sinner (whether and Israelite sinner or a Gentile sinner) believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, they are saved.

Then explain how David could have "believes on the Lord Jesus Christ" in scripture.

And why would Peter state 1 Peter 1:6-9 to the nation of Israel?

 

[David Lamb]

Then explain how David could have "believes on the Lord Jesus Christ" in scripture.

And why would Peter state 1 Peter 1:6-9 to the nation of Israel?

Well David certainly did.

“«A Psalm of David.» The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."” (Ps 110:1 NKJV)

Jesus explains that in that verse, David was referring to Him, to Christ:

“Then Jesus answered and said, while He taught in the temple, "How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the Son of David? "For David himself said by the Holy Spirit: ‘The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."’ "Therefore David himself calls Him ‘Lord’; how is He then his Son?" And the common people heard Him gladly.” (Mr 12:35-37 NKJV)

Peter wasn't writing his first letter to the nation of Israel. He is writing to Christians who have been dispersed by persecution:

“Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.” (1Pe 1:1-2 NKJV)

It is to Christians that he writes in vv 6-9:


“In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, [being] much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith — the salvation of your souls.” (1Pe 1:6-9 NKJV)

 

[Guojing]

Well David certainly did.

“«A Psalm of David.» The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."” (Ps 110:1 NKJV)

Jesus explains that in that verse, David was referring to Him, to Christ:

“Then Jesus answered and said, while He taught in the temple, "How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the Son of David? "For David himself said by the Holy Spirit: ‘The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."’ "Therefore David himself calls Him ‘Lord’; how is He then his Son?" And the common people heard Him gladly.” (Mr 12:35-37 NKJV)

Wow, if you can infer from scripture like that, I rest my case.

Next you will tell me Noah also believed in Jesus Christ, because the latter is represented by the Ark.

Peter wasn't writing his first letter to the nation of Israel. He is writing to Christians who have been dispersed by persecution:

“Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.” (1Pe 1:1-2 NKJV)

You are not aware that the elect refers to the nation of Israel (Romans 9:10-13), and the dispersion refers to the members of Israel scattered abroad?

It is to Christians that he writes in vv 6-9:

“In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, [being] much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith — the salvation of your souls.” (1Pe 1:6-9 NKJV)

He cannot be writing 1 Peter to us, we know that because of the agreement James Peter and John made with Paul in Galatians 2:7-9.

 

[David Lamb]

Wow, if you can infer from scripture like that, I rest my case.

Next you will tell me Noah also believed in Jesus Christ, because the latter is represented by the Ark.

I don't need to infer, because Jesus actually says that David called Him, Christ "Lord."

You are not aware that the elect refers to the nation of Israel, and the dispersion refers to the members of Israel scattered abroad?

Not the nation of Israel, but Israelites who had become Christians, scattered abroad by persecution. Vv 6-8 show that he was addressing Israelite Christians, not the nation as a whole:

“In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,” (1Pe 1:6-8 NKJV)

The Nation of Israel did not love the Lord Jesus Christ. Some Israelites did.

He cannot be writing 1 Peter to us, we know that because of the agreement James Peter and John made with Paul in Galatians 2:7-9.

I didn't mention the matter of whether Peter was writing to us.

 

[Guojing]

The Nation of Israel did not love the Lord Jesus Christ. Some Israelites did.

As Romans 9:6-13 stated. believing Israel, those that believed Jesus as their Messiah, is the true Israel.

So you are right, that remnant is the elect, I was always referring to the remnant of Israel who believed.

They are NOT Israelite Christians, that is an unscriptural term.

 

[David Lamb]

As Romans 9:6-13 stated. believing Israel, those that believed Jesus as their Messiah, is the true Israel.

So you are right, that remnant is the elect, I was always referring to the remnant of Israel who believed.

They are NOT Israelite Christians, that is an unscriptural term.

Thanks for explaining that. When you kept talking about "the nation of Israel," I naturally thought you meant the whole nation. As for "Israelite Christians" not being a biblical term, nor are "American Christians," "Chinese Christians," "British Christians," etc., but what is wrong with using such terms to refer to Christians from particular places?

 

[Guojing]

As for "Israelite Christians" not being a biblical term, nor are "American Christians," "Chinese Christians," "British Christians," etc., but what is wrong with using such terms to refer to Christians from particular places?

If you are a believer during the early Acts 2 period, you are part of true Israel, the remnant Israel who believed, aka Romans 9:6-13.

You are under the gospel of the circumcision/kingdom, and under the stewardship of Peter James and John. You have to obey the Law of Moses, circumcise your kids etc (Acts 21:18-24).

So you are NOT an Israelite Christian. All Christians today and after the fall of Israel, belong to the Body of Christ, where there is neither Jew nor gentile (Galatians 3:28), and they are not to circumcise their kids (Galatians 5:2, Acts 21:25).

 

[Dan Perez]

Noah had no idea that Jesus was going to do what he did, Noah had to wait till Jesus went to sheol after his crucifixion, and set the captives free.
When Jesus went to sheol, all saw him and all bent the knee and confessed Jesus is Lord, then he lead them to God. This is all part of Gods creation it is not done till 1Cor 15:28 when the last enemy is conquered (death) and God will be all in all , then New Heaven and New Earth and creation will be complete.
After that we have no idea of what God has planned for his creation, but it will bw great.

Noah had no idea that Jesus was going to do what he did, Noah had to wait till Jesus went to sheol after his crucifixion, and set the captives free.
When Jesus went to sheol, all saw him and all bent the knee and confessed Jesus is Lord, then he lead them to God. This is all part of Gods creation it is not done till 1Cor 15:28 when the last enemy is conquered (death) and God will be all in all , then New Heaven and New Earth and creation will be complete.
After that we have no idea of what God has planned for his creation, but it will bw great.

If you are a believer during the early Acts 2 period, you are part of true Israel, the remnant Israel who believed, aka Romans 9:6-13.

You are under the gospel of the circumcision/kingdom, and under the stewardship of Peter James and John. You have to obey the Law of Moses, circumcise your kids etc (Acts 21:18-24).

So you are NOT an Israelite Christian. All Christians today and after the fall of Israel, belong to the Body of Christ, where there is neither Jew nor gentile (Galatians 3:28), and they are not to circumcise their kids (Galatians 5:2, Acts 21:25).

And Guojing gave you and that Israel will be saved under the NEW COVENANT , unless you are saying that Israel

will not be saved , and IF ISRAEL are ALL killed , than SATAN WINS , as Christ will have no PEOPLE for

the MILLENNIAL KIGDOM .

dan p