Forgiving the unrepentant?

[Jamdoc]

We know that we are to forgive others, even if they sin against you 7 times in a day and 7 times in a day say I repent (for the same sin even) according to Luke 17:4.
This makes sense even if they keep wronging you afterward if they did recognize that they were at fault and did wrong, and apologize, okay so they fail at keeping their repentance, but if they can repent to begin with their heart is not hardened.

But what if they don't repent? What if they cannot admit fault, and harden their heart declaring that they were right to wrong you? Not even so much as a "my bad"? God does not forgive the unrepentant as far as I'm aware, is He expecting us to forgive people He doesn't forgive? Are we expected to be more forgiving than God Himself?

A tangent of this question comes also in light of people who profess faith+works salvation, that if a Christian sins they lose their salvation, etc. Jesus commands us to forgive someone of the same sin 7 times in a day (with the number 7 being representation of completeness, it's possible if not very likely Jesus expects us to forgive a repentant sinner over and over no matter how many times in a day they fail, without a limit)

The hardening of the heart to reject God's Messiah is as I've heard connected to the unforgivable sin, to blaspheme the Holy Spirit and deny His conviction

I find it incredibly easy to forgive someone who apologizes, it becomes "water under the bridge" just like that.
But I find it near impossible to forgive someone who mocks and scoffs and doubles down on offense without even admission that they've done anything wrong, often blaming you for what they did.

are we to forgive them when they don't even ask to be forgiven?

 

[d taylor]

We know that we are to forgive others, even if they sin against you 7 times in a day and 7 times in a day say I repent (for the same sin even) according to Luke 17:4.
This makes sense even if they keep wronging you afterward if they did recognize that they were at fault and did wrong, and apologize, okay so they fail at keeping their repentance, but if they can repent to begin with their heart is not hardened.

But what if they don't repent? What if they cannot admit fault, and harden their heart declaring that they were right to wrong you? Not even so much as a "my bad"? God does not forgive the unrepentant as far as I'm aware, is He expecting us to forgive people He doesn't forgive? Are we expected to be more forgiving than God Himself?

A tangent of this question comes also in light of people who profess faith+works salvation, that if a Christian sins they lose their salvation, etc. Jesus commands us to forgive someone of the same sin 7 times in a day (with the number 7 being representation of completeness, it's possible if not very likely Jesus expects us to forgive a repentant sinner over and over no matter how many times in a day they fail, without a limit)

The hardening of the heart to reject God's Messiah is as I've heard connected to the unforgivable sin, to blaspheme the Holy Spirit and deny His conviction

I find it incredibly easy to forgive someone who apologizes, it becomes "water under the bridge" just like that.
But I find it near impossible to forgive someone who mocks and scoffs and doubles down on offense without even admission that they've done anything wrong, often blaming you for what they did.

are we to forgive them when they don't even ask to be forgiven?

-
​

Forgiveness is not conditioned on how someone treats you. On another note the unforgivable sin (Matthew 12), was a sin that only the nation of Israel could have committed (and they did) back when Jesus was present and alive at His first advent presenting Himself to the nation as the promised Messiah.

 

[Laodicean60]

-
​

Forgiveness is not conditioned on how someone treats you. On another note the unforgivable sin (Matthew 12), was a sin that only the nation of Israel could have committed (and they did) back when Jesus was present and alive at His first advent presenting Himself to the nation as the promised Messiah.

Interesting, and I always thought it was for all those who rejected Jesus.

 

[d taylor]

Interesting, and I always thought it was for all those who rejected Jesus.

-
​

I am guessing you are speaking about the unforgivable sin.

Yes is was a national sin that only The nation of Israel could have committed which they did.

The sin was saying Jesus did His miracle, which was a miracle only the Messiah could do. Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw. And all the multitudes were amazed and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”

by the power of Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”

This sin was or never has been, an individual sin individual people can commit.

Notice before Matthew 12 Jesus went around healing everyone and helping everyone, but after the rejection in Matthew 12 from then own Jesus taught in parable's and only did specific miracles for the purpose of training the 12 apostles.

 

[com7fy8]

are we to forgive them when they don't even ask to be forgiven?

Let's start with what Jesus prayed, in Luke 23:34 >

"Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." (in Luke 23:34)

 

[Maria Billingsley]

are we to forgive them when they don't even ask to be forgiven?

Yes, ( 7x70) this is what it means to truly forgive. It is none of your concern if the other party does not repent.
Blessings

 

[Lukaris]

We know that we are to forgive others, even if they sin against you 7 times in a day and 7 times in a day say I repent (for the same sin even) according to Luke 17:4.
This makes sense even if they keep wronging you afterward if they did recognize that they were at fault and did wrong, and apologize, okay so they fail at keeping their repentance, but if they can repent to begin with their heart is not hardened.

But what if they don't repent? What if they cannot admit fault, and harden their heart declaring that they were right to wrong you? Not even so much as a "my bad"? God does not forgive the unrepentant as far as I'm aware, is He expecting us to forgive people He doesn't forgive? Are we expected to be more forgiving than God Himself?

A tangent of this question comes also in light of people who profess faith+works salvation, that if a Christian sins they lose their salvation, etc. Jesus commands us to forgive someone of the same sin 7 times in a day (with the number 7 being representation of completeness, it's possible if not very likely Jesus expects us to forgive a repentant sinner over and over no matter how many times in a day they fail, without a limit)

The hardening of the heart to reject God's Messiah is as I've heard connected to the unforgivable sin, to blaspheme the Holy Spirit and deny His conviction

I find it incredibly easy to forgive someone who apologizes, it becomes "water under the bridge" just like that.
But I find it near impossible to forgive someone who mocks and scoffs and doubles down on offense without even admission that they've done anything wrong, often blaming you for what they did.

are we to forgive them when they don't even ask to be forgiven?

Understand how you feel but we must try. Personally, I know the Lord is right but I know I fall short but think of the father who cried out in Mark 9:24.

 

[timothyu]

are we to forgive them when they don't even ask to be forgiven?

They can't help being so deeply attached to their ignorance, It is a long journey to God's wisdom and these may not even have started. They are who they are, focused on self interest. That, or possibly, God needs them to be the way they are.

 

[Jamdoc]

-
​

Forgiveness is not conditioned on how someone treats you. On another note the unforgivable sin (Matthew 12), was a sin that only the nation of Israel could have committed (and they did) back when Jesus was present and alive at His first advent presenting Himself to the nation as the promised Messiah.

But God does not forgive the unrepentant. If they come before God having sinned and act self righteous, that's the kinds of people Jesus railed against and called vipers and said their father was the Devil.

In Luke 18 Jesus gave the parable of the Pharisee and the publican. The publican was more justified because he knew he was a sinner and asked for mercy. So that's at least the starting point for forgiveness and salvation, to at first know you're a sinner in the first place right?
But the Pharisee, believing himself right in his own eyes.. there won't be mercy.

 

[Jamdoc]

Let's start with what Jesus prayed, in Luke 23:34 >

"Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." (in Luke 23:34)

but if they don't repent, does He forgive them?

I think some of the Romans did repent though, and so they could be forgiven

I think this Centurion, had a good chance of being saved

Matthew 27:

54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

I think in seeing what he saw, he repented of what had been done, recognized Jesus for who He was and.. I pray He was forgiven.
but of those who witnessed it and hardened their hearts to it? Probably not.

 

[Jamdoc]

Understand how you feel but we must try. Personally, I know the Lord is right but I know I fall short but think of the father who cried out in Mark 9:24.

I guess where I struggle the most in it is if there are unrepentant people who God won't forgive, I'm supposed to forgive them even if God won't? God would put someone to eternal torture for 1 unforgiven sin against Him (disregarding that we all have way more than 1 sin that needs to be forgiven)

Mind you I am talking about non Christians. If they are a brother I guess I have to forgive for offenses against me because God has forgiven them, those sins against God, and trespasses against me as well would have been nailed to the cross. I can accept that. If you're going to spend eternity with someone it's no good to hold a grudge in that light.

But an unbeliever.. I suppose there's a practical reason not to forgive them so easily, if they've sinned against you and you are holding it against them ideally it is a more tangible example of where they stand with God as well, unforgiven, and hopefully convicted to repent. If they just harden themselves.. well instead of being forgiven God will punish their sin, more sins against Him than against me or other people, but it does include that too.

I suppose the example is.. someone committing adultery, that is a sin both against God, and against his wife. Instead of admitting guilt and seeking forgiveness, he hardens his heart, blames the wife for what he did, and doubles down on the affair. If he does not repent, and turn to Christ, is God going to forgive that adultery?
Should the wife? after instead of repenting, he blames her, and doubles down and causes more pain, and hurting his own children long term?

 

[timothyu]

But God does not forgive the unrepentant.

What use are they to God if they are unwilling to give up their self-awareness?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

We know that we are to forgive others, even if they sin against you 7 times in a day and 7 times in a day say I repent (for the same sin even) according to Luke 17:4.
This makes sense even if they keep wronging you afterward if they did recognize that they were at fault and did wrong, and apologize, okay so they fail at keeping their repentance, but if they can repent to begin with their heart is not hardened.

But what if they don't repent? What if they cannot admit fault, and harden their heart declaring that they were right to wrong you? Not even so much as a "my bad"? God does not forgive the unrepentant as far as I'm aware, is He expecting us to forgive people He doesn't forgive? Are we expected to be more forgiving than God Himself?

No, we are not. There is no scripture anywhere that says we have to forgive anyone that God Himself does not forgive. At the same time we should love our enemies. We don't have to forgive them, but we also can't hate them and need to treat them with love.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

But God does not forgive the unrepentant. If they come before God having sinned and act self righteous, that's the kinds of people Jesus railed against and called vipers and said their father was the Devil.

In Luke 18 Jesus gave the parable of the Pharisee and the publican. The publican was more justified because he knew he was a sinner and asked for mercy. So that's at least the starting point for forgiveness and salvation, to at first know you're a sinner in the first place right?
But the Pharisee, believing himself right in his own eyes.. there won't be mercy.

Right. I don't see any scripture which tells us to forgive people like the Pharisee who was clearly full of pride and unrepentant. But, we should love people like that since we are commanded to love our enemies. To forgive means to excuse someone's sin and it's no longer counted against them and they don't deserve to be punished for it. We are never told to forgive and excuse the sins of unrepentant people like the Pharisee in that parable.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

but if they don't repent, does He forgive them?

That was talking about people being ignorant and not realizing what they were doing. He asked the Father to forgive them because He didn't hold it against people for being ignorant of what they were doing. But, you're talking about when people do know what they're doing and it's not out of ignorance, right? God does not forgive that if they don't repent of it.

 

[Lukaris]

I guess where I struggle the most in it is if there are unrepentant people who God won't forgive, I'm supposed to forgive them even if God won't? God would put someone to eternal torture for 1 unforgiven sin against Him (disregarding that we all have way more than 1 sin that needs to be forgiven)

Mind you I am talking about non Christians. If they are a brother I guess I have to forgive for offenses against me because God has forgiven them, those sins against God, and trespasses against me as well would have been nailed to the cross. I can accept that. If you're going to spend eternity with someone it's no good to hold a grudge in that light.

But an unbeliever.. I suppose there's a practical reason not to forgive them so easily, if they've sinned against you and you are holding it against them ideally it is a more tangible example of where they stand with God as well, unforgiven, and hopefully convicted to repent. If they just harden themselves.. well instead of being forgiven God will punish their sin, more sins against Him than against me or other people, but it does include that too.

I suppose the example is.. someone committing adultery, that is a sin both against God, and against his wife. Instead of admitting guilt and seeking forgiveness, he hardens his heart, blames the wife for what he did, and doubles down on the affair. If he does not repent, and turn to Christ, is God going to forgive that adultery?
Should the wife? after instead of repenting, he blames her, and doubles down and causes more pain, and hurting his own children long term?

I think we can only do our part and leave it to God. Personally I believe scripture like Matthew 12:30-33 etc. applies to all people until the second coming and think of scripture like 1 Timothy 2:1-6 etc. in prayer.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I think we can only do our part and leave it to God. Personally I believe scripture like Matthew 12:30-33 etc. applies to all people until the second coming and think of scripture like 1 Timothy 2:1-6 etc. in prayer.

Those scriptures apply to all people who repent and not to those who don't. Surely, you don't believe that unrepentant sin is forgiven, right?

 

[Lukaris]

Those scriptures apply to all people who repent and not to those who don't. Surely, you don't believe that unrepentant sin is forgiven, right?

I don’t know; ignorance or culpability of others only God knows those who are good or evil among us ( Proverbs 15:3). Ultimately, God says the good will be saved & the evil condemned ( Daniel 12:1-4, John 5:22-30. I would think an unrepentant murderer is condemned (I believe 1 John 5:15-17 can be applied here) but i don’t know otherwise ( Matthew 7:1-12, Romans 9:14-18 etc.).

 

[Veni]

forgive is not only for those who wrong against us. we forgive all those who are under God's wrath.
by forgiving we remove the wrath of God from the sinner, who do not know what they are doing.

in the Old Testament sin atonement is animal sacrifice.
in the New Testament willing men are sin atonement.

do not ask God to save those who need help, instead ask God to remove his wrath from them & place it upon us. for they do not know what they are doing.
our flesh is destined to be destroyed, why waste it with desire.

Matthew 9:1-7
Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”

At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, “This fellow is blaspheming!”

Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” Then the man got up and went home. When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to man.

John 20:19-23
On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Mark 2:6-12
Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man, “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this!”

Luke 5:21-26
The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, “Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

Jesus knew what they were thinking and asked, “Why are you thinking these things in your hearts? Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the paralyzed man, “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” Immediately he stood up in front of them, took what he had been lying on and went home praising God. Everyone was amazed and gave praise to God. They were filled with awe and said, “We have seen remarkable things today.”

John 15:9-17
“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. This is my command: Love each other.

 

[armchairscholar]

We know that we are to forgive others, even if they sin against you 7 times in a day and 7 times in a day say I repent (for the same sin even) according to Luke 17:4.

This makes sense even if they keep wronging you afterward if they did recognize that they were at fault and did wrong, and apologize, okay so they fail at keeping their repentance, but if they can repent to begin with their heart is not hardened.

But what if they don’t repent? What if they cannot admit fault, and harden their heart declaring that they were right to wrong you? Not even so much as a “my bad”? God does not forgive the unrepentant as far as I’m aware, is He expecting us to forgive people He doesn’t forgive?

A tangent of this question comes also in light of people who profess faith+works salvation, that if a Christian sins they lose their salvation, etc. Jesus commands us to forgive someone of the same sin 7 times in a day (with the number 7 being representation of completeness, it’s possible if not very likely Jesus expects us to forgive a repentant sinner over and over no matter how many times in a day they fail, without a limit) according to Luke 17:4.

The hardening of the heart to reject God’s Messiah is as I’ve heard connected to the unforgivable sin, to blaspheme the Holy Spirit and deny His conviction.

I find it incredibly easy to forgive someone who apologizes, it becomes “water under the bridge” just like that.

But I find it near impossible to forgive someone who mocks and scoffs and doubles down on offense without even admission that they’ve done anything wrong, often blaming you for what they did. forgive them when they don’t even ask to be forgiven?

Hey Jamdoc, thanks for sharing this tough question.

Forgiveness is like letting go of a heavy backpack instead of throwing it on someone else. It lightens your load even if the other person never says sorry.

Historically, Christians have seen forgiveness as a mirror of God’s grace. In some old church councils, leaders said we forgive up to the point the heart won’t crack open to mercy.

That doesn’t mean you ignore abuse or set yourself on fire to keep others warm. Boundaries are part of wisdom—think of them as a fence around your garden of peace.

In practice, you can pray for a soft heart, even if you don’t feel like forgiving today. Over time, small steps—like wishing someone well in your mind—can open up real healing.

You’re not alone in this; many saints and scholars wrestled with the same question. Keep seeking, keep praying, and God can shape your heart bit by bit.